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So how is this not textbook, open and shut case, obstruction of justice?

Anyone? Anyone? How does he not get impeached at this point?
 
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Jason Reid
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Well as far as I can tell he hasn't actually testified yet? Unless Google News is hiding something?
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Andre
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Shampoo4you wrote:

So how is this not textbook, open and shut case, obstruction of justice?

Anyone? Anyone? How does he not get impeached at this point?


Because impeachment is a congressional duty, not a legal one. Meaning he may be impeached separately from any legal proceedings. And let us remember that Republicans control Congress. Unless I am wrong, impeachment needs at least a 2/3 vote in the Senate, which means some Repubs jave to join the Democratic ranks. It might happen, but not at this point in time. In my opinion, the investigations need to procced further down the line, before some Congressmen might be willing to place their vote for impeachment.

Legally, it's a different story, Sadly, what Comey testifies to is strictly he said-he said, unless some recording or transcript can be produced of the coersion. His notes may not be enough to convict Trump, although they might be very damning in the court of public opinion.
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Mac Mcleod
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Shampoo4you wrote:

So how is this not textbook, open and shut case, obstruction of justice?

Anyone? Anyone? How does he not get impeached at this point?


Could you please share the current lottery tickets from your timeline? It appears to be about 7 days ahead of mine.
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abadolato01 wrote:
Shampoo4you wrote:

So how is this not textbook, open and shut case, obstruction of justice?

Anyone? Anyone? How does he not get impeached at this point?


Because impeachment is a congressional duty, not a legal one. Meaning he may be impeached separately from any legal proceedings. And let us remember that Republicans control Congress. Unless I am wrong, impeachment needs at least a 2/3 vote in the Senate, which means some Repubs jave to join the Democratic ranks. It might happen, but not at this point in time. In my opinion, the investigations need to procced further down the line, before some Congressmen might be willing to place their vote for impeachment.

Legally, it's a different story, Sadly, what Comey testifies to is strictly he said-he said, unless some recording or transcript can be produced of the coersion. His notes may not be enough to convict Trump, although they might be very damning in the court of public opinion.


I do remember reading somewhere on the internet about the use of FBI memos to get convictions.....
 
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Shampoo4you wrote:

So how is this not textbook, open and shut case, obstruction of justice?

Anyone? Anyone? How does he not get impeached at this point?


It's important to remember that anything that's going to happen is going to take a loooooooooooooooooooooooong time.

Impeachment is MUCH more a political process than a criminal process. The issue, then, is how much longer the GOP is willing to sit on its collective hands before / if they actually decide to do something.

And -- make no mistake -- it's entirely possible that day will never come. That means we need to make gains in the 2018 election AND work to elect someone else in 2020. Assuming Donald Trump will not be on the Republican ballot come November of 2020 is an iffy proposition, at best.

What I don't get, honestly, is why the GOP is hanging onto him so much. They've got Pence waiting in the wings, and he'll be happy to sign anything they put in front of him (moreso, I'd guess, than Trump, who's kind of unpredictable, eh?). President Pence would then have VP Ryan, and I can't see how they don't want that.

One possible explanation floated about is that Putin's got as much dirt on them as he's got on Trump. Another is that they're concerned with 2018 and 2020 if they're seen as ousting their own candidate from the Oval Office. Yet another -- my original theory, though I'm feeling less and less confident -- is that they were hoping to keep him on long enough to sign some unpopular shit into law and *then* dump him. Hell, maybe they're hoping things will turn around, or we'll get tired of fighting back. It's as likely as anything else, right?

(I'll add, additionally, that should the GOP decide to actually get behind impeachment, I wouldn't bet on Trump pulling a Nixon and resigning to avoid the fight. IF the GOP ever stood up, I'd bet a good, long, public drag through the mud until hearings and what-not are concluded, and I can't imagine they want to get into that if they can avoid it.)
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maxo-texas wrote:
Shampoo4you wrote:

So how is this not textbook, open and shut case, obstruction of justice?

Anyone? Anyone? How does he not get impeached at this point?


Could you please share the current lottery tickets from your timeline? It appears to be about 7 days ahead of mine.


http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/31/politics/fbi-comey-testimony/i...

This. Although his testimony has yet to be heard, he seems to be ready to tell about his relationship with Trump, and his feeling that Trump attempted to persuade him to shut down the investigation.
 
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ohbalto wrote:
Shampoo4you wrote:

So how is this not textbook, open and shut case, obstruction of justice?

Anyone? Anyone? How does he not get impeached at this point?


It's important to remember that anything that's going to happen is going to take a loooooooooooooooooooooooong time.

Impeachment is MUCH more a political process than a criminal process. The issue, then, is how much longer the GOP is willing to sit on its collective hands before / if they actually decide to do something.

And -- make no mistake -- it's entirely possible that day will never come. That means we need to make gains in the 2018 election AND work to elect someone else in 2020. Assuming Donald Trump will not be on the Republican ballot come November of 2020 is an iffy proposition, at best.

What I don't get, honestly, is why the GOP is hanging onto him so much. They've got Pence waiting in the wings, and he'll be happy to sign anything they put in front of him (moreso, I'd guess, than Trump, who's kind of unpredictable, eh?). President Pence would then have VP Ryan, and I can't see how they don't want that.

One possible explanation floated about is that Putin's got as much dirt on them as he's got on Trump. Another is that they're concerned with 2018 and 2020 if they're seen as ousting their own candidate from the Oval Office. Yet another -- my original theory, though I'm feeling less and less confident -- is that they were hoping to keep him on long enough to sign some unpopular shit into law and *then* dump him. Hell, maybe they're hoping things will turn around, or we'll get tired of fighting back. It's as likely as anything else, right?

(I'll add, additionally, that should the GOP decide to actually get behind impeachment, I wouldn't bet on Trump pulling a Nixon and resigning to avoid the fight. IF the GOP ever stood up, I'd bet a good, long, public drag through the mud until hearings and what-not are concluded, and I can't imagine they want to get into that if they can avoid it.)


I agree, the timetable for impeachment in my opinion is laid out in years, not months. This will be a long, dragged out, knock-down affair, and the Republicans are not. and might never be, willing to embrace impeachment.
 
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Because of the whole "Pence is there waiting" thing, I'd be very happy if Trump gets embroiled in something messy and slow.

That is, as long as he doesn't start WWIII, and as long as despite his "best" efforts the collective we continue to try our best to combat possible climate change. By all means, get dragged into the mud and take the entire Republican party with you. I dislike the Democrats but they can't hold a candle to the current right-wing cartoon villainy going on...
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ohbalto wrote:
What I don't get, honestly, is why the GOP is hanging onto him so much. They've got Pence waiting in the wings, and he'll be happy to sign anything they put in front of him (moreso, I'd guess, than Trump, who's kind of unpredictable, eh?). President Pence would then have VP Ryan, and I can't see how they don't want that.


I'm not so sure about that last point...no guarantee that Ryan's successor in the House is a Republican.

But aside from that, even though Trump's base has likely shrunk some, the Republican establishment must know that to tear down their champion in some sort of Game of Thrones re-enactment would destroy the party. No way they impeach him if it is at all possible for them to avoid it.
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ohbalto wrote:
Shampoo4you wrote:

So how is this not textbook, open and shut case, obstruction of justice?

Anyone? Anyone? How does he not get impeached at this point?


What I don't get, honestly, is why the GOP is hanging onto him so much. They've got Pence waiting in the wings, and he'll be happy to sign anything they put in front of him (moreso, I'd guess, than Trump, who's kind of unpredictable, eh?). President Pence would then have VP Ryan, and I can't see how they don't want that.


Couple of reasons. The first is that Trump has a fairly solid base still among GOP rank-and-file members. Remember that he was getting 30% or so of the primary vote when there were 15 other candidates, and he still has 35% or so support from the American public, (20% or so strongly approve), mostly from GOP states. A lot of these people voted for Trump precisely because he was not (as they saw it) a party stooge, but an outsider who would shake things up. Going after him would disenfranchise the base at this time.

The other reason is that I don't think Democrats will support impeachment at this time either, if they're smart. As you point out, Pence would likely be more in tune with the GOP party agenda, and able to carry it out more competently. I think Dems are quite happy to watch the current administration flounder around and implode, fail miserably to enact their agenda, all the while improving Dem prospects for 2018. Get rid of Trump at this stage and the GOP has 18 months to get things done and rebuild support.

Neither side will have any interest in kicking out Trump for 1-2 years, unless there is absolute, unequivocal evidence of treason that causes his popular support to tank (it's low, but still nowhere near where Nixon's was when he resigned, and it could still recover if the Trump administration actually records some policy successes).
 
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Pence wouldn't be wrecking NATO and other US alliances, so as much as I despise him, I'd take him over Trump.
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edgarthewoebringer wrote:
Because of the whole "Pence is there waiting" thing, I'd be very happy if Trump gets embroiled in something messy and slow.

That is, as long as he doesn't start WWIII, and as long as despite his "best" efforts the collective we continue to try our best to combat possible climate change. By all means, get dragged into the mud and take the entire Republican party with you. I dislike the Democrats but they can't hold a candle to the current right-wing cartoon villainy going on...

WWII. He's about to finish preventing the American Civil War, after which he'll learn there was a WWI. The danger is that, following his discovery that Germany invaded Russia and that Japan bombed Pearl Harbor, at some time in the past, he'll declare war on Germany and Japan & start WWII.
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Junior McSpiffy
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Shampoo4you wrote:

So how is this not textbook, open and shut case, obstruction of justice?

Anyone? Anyone? How does he not get impeached at this point?


Because due process allows for others to try and disparage the credibility of the witness, to put the happenings in a different light, to mount a defense for Trump.... in short, it's not open and shut because the case and the investigation is still ongoing. It should (and suspect it will) end in that place, but due process.

Oh, and the 2018 elections. Those too.
 
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bob_santafe wrote:
edgarthewoebringer wrote:
Because of the whole "Pence is there waiting" thing, I'd be very happy if Trump gets embroiled in something messy and slow.

That is, as long as he doesn't start WWIII, and as long as despite his "best" efforts the collective we continue to try our best to combat possible climate change. By all means, get dragged into the mud and take the entire Republican party with you. I dislike the Democrats but they can't hold a candle to the current right-wing cartoon villainy going on...

WWII. He's about to finish preventing the American Civil War, after which he'll learn there was a WWI. The danger is that, following his discovery that Germany invaded Russia and that Japan bombed Pearl Harbor, at some time in the past, he'll declare war on Germany and Japan & start WWII.

That's Poland. Germany invaded Poland. Russia was much later. Actually Germany annexed the Sudetenland is when it started but we were too gutless to honour our commitments to Czechoslovakia and thus lowered French belief in us.
 
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DavidDearlove wrote:
bob_santafe wrote:
edgarthewoebringer wrote:
Because of the whole "Pence is there waiting" thing, I'd be very happy if Trump gets embroiled in something messy and slow.

That is, as long as he doesn't start WWIII, and as long as despite his "best" efforts the collective we continue to try our best to combat possible climate change. By all means, get dragged into the mud and take the entire Republican party with you. I dislike the Democrats but they can't hold a candle to the current right-wing cartoon villainy going on...

WWII. He's about to finish preventing the American Civil War, after which he'll learn there was a WWI. The danger is that, following his discovery that Germany invaded Russia and that Japan bombed Pearl Harbor, at some time in the past, he'll declare war on Germany and Japan & start WWII.

That's Poland. Germany invaded Poland. Russia was much later. Actually Germany annexed the Sudetenland is when it started but we were too gutless to honour our commitments to Czechoslovakia and thus lowered French belief in us.


It wasn't gutless, the order to support was accidentally miswritten and so it could not be resolved in turn 1938.
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DavidDearlove wrote:
bob_santafe wrote:
edgarthewoebringer wrote:
Because of the whole "Pence is there waiting" thing, I'd be very happy if Trump gets embroiled in something messy and slow.

That is, as long as he doesn't start WWIII, and as long as despite his "best" efforts the collective we continue to try our best to combat possible climate change. By all means, get dragged into the mud and take the entire Republican party with you. I dislike the Democrats but they can't hold a candle to the current right-wing cartoon villainy going on...

WWII. He's about to finish preventing the American Civil War, after which he'll learn there was a WWI. The danger is that, following his discovery that Germany invaded Russia and that Japan bombed Pearl Harbor, at some time in the past, he'll declare war on Germany and Japan & start WWII.

That's Poland. Germany invaded Poland. Russia was much later. Actually Germany annexed the Sudetenland is when it started but we were too gutless to honour our commitments to Czechoslovakia and thus lowered French belief in us.


According to Trump's source it was Russia thst was invaded. The Russian province of Poland.
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Robert Stuart
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DavidDearlove wrote:
bob_santafe wrote:
edgarthewoebringer wrote:
Because of the whole "Pence is there waiting" thing, I'd be very happy if Trump gets embroiled in something messy and slow.

That is, as long as he doesn't start WWIII, and as long as despite his "best" efforts the collective we continue to try our best to combat possible climate change. By all means, get dragged into the mud and take the entire Republican party with you. I dislike the Democrats but they can't hold a candle to the current right-wing cartoon villainy going on...

WWII. He's about to finish preventing the American Civil War, after which he'll learn there was a WWI. The danger is that, following his discovery that Germany invaded Russia and that Japan bombed Pearl Harbor, at some time in the past, he'll declare war on Germany and Japan & start WWII.

That's Poland. Germany invaded Poland. Russia was much later. Actually Germany annexed the Sudetenland is when it started but we were too gutless to honour our commitments to Czechoslovakia and thus lowered French belief in us.

Whoa! Whoa! You're getting ahead of yourself! The TLT (Trump Learning Timetable) doesn't call for him to learn about Poland until 2021!
 
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