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Subject: High and Mighty VIII - A higher value math trade - discussion thread - official results posted! rss

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Jack K
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Please read this before adding anything to the math trade. This is not your usual math trade and the rules have changed a little from last year's event.

If you don't know how a math trade works, please watch this great video guide.

Our hope here is, as always, to draw out the rare and hard-to-find but not entirely exclude people who don't have such items to trade...

Of course, we need a lower end cutoff here and so I choose:

ALL ITEMS/PACKAGES IN THIS EVENT MUST HAVE A MINIMUM VALUE OF $80 (U.S) - please note that MSRP can NOT be used.

How will "value" be determined? See rule #1 below.



The rules - please take a few minutes to read them:

d10-1 In the event of uncertainty, we will use the following mechanism to judge if an item can be included:

In print new games:

Do not use MSRP. Use the lowest available prices from the usual online vendors whenever possible.

If you know that an item is only available somewhere else, please point that out in your entry.


In print used games or out of print games:

Use the BGG Marketplace history - sold items, not the prices for unsold items. The unsold item price may be used to see if your item does NOT qualify (i.e. if you can buy the same item, in similar condition, for under the threshold for this event, it doesn't qualify).

http://www.spielboy.com/GeekPrices.php

This site will show you the BGG Marketplace history for your game, plus any notes entered by the seller - items not sold in the past year in the Marketplace will be treated more leniently as their value has probably risen.

You can mouse over the sold item to sometimes see notes about version, condition etc.

EBay should not be used when valuing games unless there is no other reasonably recent data available, and then you should check with me in the discussion thread first - and then only completed sales will even be considered.

As moderator, I reserve the right to make all final decisions on whether or not an entry qualifies.

If you feel someone else's entry does not qualify, please let me know (including the reason). Commenting on the item is acceptable but please let me know that you've done so. Thank you - your help is appreciated!

Packaging games to get over the $80 value is OK, but each game in the package must be of at least $50 in value (as determined by the previously stated rules). Yes, I know that's more than $45 in total - but packaging games of lesser value isn't really what this event is about, so you need to do a little more...

Exception - you may package expansions with a base game to meet or exceed the threshold (but either the base game alone, or one expansion, must be worth at least $50, and the $80 threshold for packages still applies)


Please note that any entry which does not qualify but for which a non-blank want list is submitted anyway will have its want list manually removed.

d10-2 Geekgold may be used only as a sweetener and will not count towards the package value.

d10-3 Gift certificates are allowed, but given the fact that shipping affects the value of a GC obtained for a game, no GCs will be allowed below the value of $100. GCs used as sweeteners do NOT count towards your entry's qualifying value.

Please note that any Math Trader who accepts a cash value trade (either in the form of GC or actual cash) is conducting a direct sale through the site and is subject to the associated commission fee required by the Terms of Service just as with any other sale. For information on how to do this, please see

Cash Value Trades in Math Trades (and how to make a geek market listing for them)

Other items outside the scope of BGG are permitted if they meet the valuation.

d10-4 Gift certificate arbitrage is NOT allowed. However you may trade an entry that has a GC sweetener for another which also has a GC sweetener, provided that the other items offered in each entry are entirely different.

d10-5 "Choose n of k items" or "choose x points of items" entries are not allowed - it's too hard to police that many items in one entry and people often only have one grouping that meets value.

d10-6 As accurately as is reasonably possible, describe the condition (components and box), language and edition of your item in the description. This includes sweeteners if they are physical items.

For games not brand new (in shrink) you must inventory the game's components and list anything missing. Do not assume that it's complete. Also, remember that just because something is "new in shrink" that doesn't mean that you shouldn't disclose any dings. It might not matter to you, but it may matter to others.

d10-7 Clearly state your shipping policy in your listing. You are required to fully cover the shipping cost within your own country. For U.S. residents, you are only required to cover shipping within the 48 contiguous states (however I strongly encourage you to at least offer to cover as much of the shipping cost to Hawaii and Alaska as you would pay to ship anywhere else in the U.S. - you're trading valuable items here, and it's often no more expensive, so it's worth it). You are not required to ship outside of your own country (again, you could at least offer to cover a portion of the shipping elsewhere) but your shipping restrictions outside of your own country must be clearly stated and if you are not covering full shipping elsewhere, then you must state precisely how much of the actual shipping cost you will cover.

Any ambiguity will be interpreted as generosity on your part. This means that if you don't include a shipping policy, then it is assumed that you will ship anywhere in the world for free!

d10-8 If you've been reported to me as a bad trader, you cannot participate. If you try to, I will remove your entries.

d10-9 Do NOT include links to other games in your entry unless you are actually including them as a sweetener, as this is displayed in a misleading manner by the OLWLG.

d10-1d10-0 Subscribe to your entries and respond to questions during the item submission period. People often ask questions of items - most commonly because you have forgotten to state a version, language or shipping policy. You will NOT be able to respond to comments in the GeekList once it is locked down and the want list submission period begins.

Other useful information

Software Used: TradeMaximizer 1.4a with duplicate protection. SEED=1234567, ITERATIONS=100, METRIC=USERS-TRADING


Want list submission

You can start creating your want lists any time after the start of the event.

Please note that it's best to work on your want lists and submit them early - you can always make changes and resubmit later. This will prevent you from being left out entirely if you forget the deadline.

Remember that you may have saved your want lists, but they have NOT been submitted until you press the green button in step 4 and received a confirming Geekmail.

You are not obliged to trade anything you put up for offer. If you offer a game, but see nothing that you are willing to accept for it in trade, you can submit a blank want list for it, or not submit one at all. If, however, you do submit a want list for a game, then it is expected that you will honour any trade that the TradeMaximizer comes up with. You will not receive anything you did not list as acceptable for the game(s) you have offered, so it is important to check your want lists carefully before submitting them to check for errors.

Request GeekList: High and Mighty VIII - A higher value math trade - REQUEST LIST

Trade GeekList: High and Mighty VIII - A higher value math trade


Use of the On-Line Want List Generator (OLWLG) is required for this event (please remember to tip JeffyJeff some GG for his support).

Key dates (all times are CENTRAL TIME)

Open for posting games: Now until Sunday, June 11th (10pm)

Want list submission period: Sunday, June 11th (10pm) until Sunday, June 18th (10pm) - there will be no extensions, except in the case of BGG downtime.

Results will be posted shortly thereafter.


Please note: Sometimes real life intrudes on us unexpectedly. If I'm a little late posting something, please bear with me.

Thanks for reading to the bottom here - you may be in a minority.

So enter lots of items and have fun!

%Options%
Deadline-Offers: Sunday, June 11th, 2017, 10:00 PM CDT
Deadline-Wants: Sunday, June 18th, 2017, 10:00 PM CDT
%End%
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Jack K
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Re: High and Mighty VIII - A higher value math trade - discussion thread
Here we go - bring out your Grails!

As many of you know, this one takes a lot of work to run - far more than even the largest standard math trade - as every entry has to be checked to ensure that it qualifies. Your assistance in monitoring this is greatly appreciated!




Request GeekList: High and Mighty VIII - A higher value math trade - REQUEST LIST

Trade GeekList: High and Mighty VIII - A higher value math trade
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Ben R
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Re: High and Mighty VIII - A higher value math trade - discussion thread
2 things:

1) Did you forget the MT announcement thread, or are we doing some sort of secret "speakeasy" door knock thingy?

2) Are you sure we can't delete items if need be? The MT community has been fully embracing the deletion of no longer available & duplicate listings for the last 9 months.

Thanks!
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Jack K
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Re: High and Mighty VIII - A higher value math trade - discussion thread
BentlyCash wrote:
2 things:

1) Did you forget the MT announcement thread, or are we doing some sort of secret "speakeasy" door knock thingy?

2) Are you sure we can't delete items if need be? The MT community has been fully embracing the deletion of no longer available & duplicate listings for the last 9 months.

Thanks!


1) Yes and no - I meant to do it this morning, and then forgot. Thanks for the reminder.

2) I've been thinking about not bothering with that... perhaps I'll remove it.

Thanks!

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Re: High and Mighty VIII - A higher value math trade - discussion thread
anglotiger wrote:
BentlyCash wrote:
2 things:

1) Did you forget the MT announcement thread, or are we doing some sort of secret "speakeasy" door knock thingy?

2) Are you sure we can't delete items if need be? The MT community has been fully embracing the deletion of no longer available & duplicate listings for the last 9 months.

Thanks!


1) Yes and no - I meant to do it this morning, and then forgot. Thanks for the reminder.

2) I've been thinking about not bothering with that... perhaps I'll remove it.

Thanks!



Woot! My favorite math trade of the year!

And yeah, Jack, deleting has fallen off as a prohibition. I took it off all of my trades and it's made things way better.
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Re: High and Mighty VIII - A higher value math trade - discussion thread
So Jack, I just want to confirm (because I THINK this is a change from last time) - a package of, say, Sentinels of the Multiverse and four of the expansions which ends up being around $100 or so is OUT because no individual aspect is over $50, correct?
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Re: High and Mighty VIII - A higher value math trade - discussion thread
hestiansun wrote:
So Jack, I just want to confirm (because I THINK this is a change from last time) - a package of, say, Sentinels of the Multiverse and four of the expansions which ends up being around $100 or so is OUT because no individual aspect is over $50, correct?


Thanks for checking Matt - that is a correct interpretation of the rule.

The rule is, in part, to simplify things for me (a lot) - I don't want to see a game added with several small expansions and promos and have to price each little bit to assess the overall value. I've allowed that for the past seven years but it's really a pain in a certain part of the anatomy every time.

I might be a little more lenient with a recent Kickstarter that has KS-exclusive content...
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Re: High and Mighty VIII - A higher value math trade - discussion thread
anglotiger wrote:
hestiansun wrote:
So Jack, I just want to confirm (because I THINK this is a change from last time) - a package of, say, Sentinels of the Multiverse and four of the expansions which ends up being around $100 or so is OUT because no individual aspect is over $50, correct?


Thanks for checking Matt - that is a correct interpretation of the rule.

The rule is, in part, to simplify things for me (a lot) - I don't want to see a game added with several small expansions and promos and have to price each little bit to assess the overall value. I've allowed that for the past seven years but it's really a pain in a certain part of the anatomy every time.

I might be a little more lenient with a recent Kickstarter that has KS-exclusive content...


Jack - what about two valuable expansions without a base game?

I would like to list two Formula De map packs, sans Formula De

Formula Dé Circuits 31 & 32: Zhuhai & Sepang
Formula Dé Circuits 19 & 20: Suzuka & Melbourne

Each have sold consistently and recently in the $50 to $100 range.
 
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Re: High and Mighty VIII - A higher value math trade - discussion thread
anglotiger wrote:
hestiansun wrote:
So Jack, I just want to confirm (because I THINK this is a change from last time) - a package of, say, Sentinels of the Multiverse and four of the expansions which ends up being around $100 or so is OUT because no individual aspect is over $50, correct?


Thanks for checking Matt - that is a correct interpretation of the rule.

The rule is, in part, to simplify things for me (a lot) - I don't want to see a game added with several small expansions and promos and have to price each little bit to assess the overall value. I've allowed that for the past seven years but it's really a pain in a certain part of the anatomy every time.

I might be a little more lenient with a recent Kickstarter that has KS-exclusive content...


Makes sense to me.
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Re: High and Mighty VIII - A higher value math trade - discussion thread
JBMoby wrote:
Jack - what about two valuable expansions without a base game?

I would like to list two Formula De map packs, sans Formula De

Formula Dé Circuits 31 & 32: Zhuhai & Sepang
Formula Dé Circuits 19 & 20: Suzuka & Melbourne

Each have sold consistently and recently in the $50 to $100 range.


While this is not expressly allowed in the rules, I think that I would allow it...
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John James
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Re: High and Mighty VIII - A higher value math trade - discussion thread
Whats the problem with ebay? A documented sale is a sale.

btw https://boardgamegeek.com/geekmarket/saleitem/940312
95C=70US https://boardgamegeek.com/geekmarket/product/1206944
 
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Re: High and Mighty VIII - A higher value math trade - discussion thread
Doomsword wrote:
Whats the problem with ebay? A documented sale is a sale.

btw https://boardgamegeek.com/geekmarket/saleitem/940312
95C=70US https://boardgamegeek.com/geekmarket/product/1206944


As a moderator, Jack has to draw the line somewhere. You say why not ebay, someone else says why not craigslist, someone else says why not reddit...

This way, there is one simple final source - speilboy - and everyone can check there.

This trade takes a LOT of time and effort on Jack's part to moderate, so I don't see any problem with him making limits on how prices are determined.

TBH, if the speilboy prices don't present a compelling case for inclusion and the item is that borderline, it may not have much luck trading anyway.
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Re: High and Mighty VIII - A higher value math trade - discussion thread
Item 23: Puppet Wars Unstitched: Just to let you know, there are at least 2 copies on ebay for $60.
 
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Re: High and Mighty VIII - A higher value math trade - discussion thread
Because eBay prices are often all over the place. I've found some real bargains on eBay - gotten items (including games) for much less than I would find them elsewhere, perhaps because the lister wasn't really aware of their value. That doesn't make them worth less...

Sources like that are just generally unreliable, even if exceptions are found.

The rules on this are unchanged in eight years with, I think, good reason.
 
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Re: High and Mighty VIII - A higher value math trade - discussion thread
What about stuff that's deliberately broken up into small bits by the publisher but clearly worth money, like magic the gathering or x-wing, for example (examples I would want and/or list.)
 
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Re: High and Mighty VIII - A higher value math trade - discussion thread
Jrtolf wrote:
Item 23: Puppet Wars Unstitched: Just to let you know, there are at least 2 copies on ebay for $60.


This is a perfect example of this rule:

Quote:
EBay should not be used when valuing games unless there is no other reasonably recent data available, and then you should check with me in the discussion thread first - and then only completed sales will even be considered.


The most recent data we had otherwise was two years old so, in this case, it makes some sense to consider it. Were those BIN prices, Jerry?
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Re: High and Mighty VIII - A higher value math trade - discussion thread
anglotiger wrote:
Jrtolf wrote:
Item 23: Puppet Wars Unstitched: Just to let you know, there are at least 2 copies on ebay for $60.


This is a perfect example of this rule:

Quote:
EBay should not be used when valuing games unless there is no other reasonably recent data available, and then you should check with me in the discussion thread first - and then only completed sales will even be considered.


The most recent data we had otherwise was two years old so, in this case, it makes some sense to consider it. Were those BIN prices, Jerry?


Yes. THREE copies at BIN $60, and a 4th BIN at $63.90.
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Re: High and Mighty VIII - A higher value math trade - discussion thread
scifiantihero wrote:
What about stuff that's deliberately broken up into small bits by the publisher but clearly worth money, like magic the gathering or x-wing, for example (examples I would want and/or list.)


The valuation rule above is going to apply, for the reasons stated earlier - sorry. It's far too much work to confirm qualification of such an entry...
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Re: High and Mighty VIII - A higher value math trade - discussion thread
anglotiger wrote:
scifiantihero wrote:
What about stuff that's deliberately broken up into small bits by the publisher but clearly worth money, like magic the gathering or x-wing, for example (examples I would want and/or list.)


The valuation rule above is going to apply, for the reasons stated earlier - sorry. It's far too much work to confirm qualification of such an entry...


I mean its not much work to go to csi and type in "x-wing"

Whatever. Everyone loves your fucking trade so there's no use arguing. Enjoy.

 
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Re: High and Mighty VIII - A higher value math trade - discussion thread
Jrtolf wrote:
Yes. THREE copies at BIN $60, and a 4th BIN at $63.90.


This is an interesting one... The listed copy says "new" but is clearly out of shrink because it's got a custom foam insert. The question is what is such an insert worth...?
 
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Re: High and Mighty VIII - A higher value math trade - discussion thread
scifiantihero wrote:
anglotiger wrote:
scifiantihero wrote:
What about stuff that's deliberately broken up into small bits by the publisher but clearly worth money, like magic the gathering or x-wing, for example (examples I would want and/or list.)


The valuation rule above is going to apply, for the reasons stated earlier - sorry. It's far too much work to confirm qualification of such an entry...


I mean its not much work to go to csi and type in "x-wing"

Whatever. Everyone loves your [obscenity deleted] trade so there's no use arguing. Enjoy.



That childish reaction is precisely the sort of thing that makes this the least pleasant math trade to run. Never mind the fact that it's already ten times more work than any other math trade.

To your argument, yes, I could spend my every waking moment going through ten items on everyone's entries to verify that their entire entry qualifies, just to make you happy... but I won't.

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Re: High and Mighty VIII - A higher value math trade - discussion thread
I find the argument against eBay interesting. I'm in no way arguing for or against it, it's your trade, I don't care, just interesting.

Background: I sell on Amazon/eBay/BGG. I've been selling online since I was 16, it's a hobby. I've done over $150,000 in sales over the last 4 years. Recently, I've been selling board games exclusively, as my other product streams dried up. It sustains my hobbies. Here are my feelings on each 3, as it pertains to board game sales.

Amazon: Highest prices for OOP board games. Sells slower than the other two. The highest commission, no sales history.

eBay: Much higher prices that BGG for OOP games, even net of fees. Amazing price history, by viewing "only sold" listings.

People that buy here usually don't know about BGG or perhaps they don't trust the marketplace. I routinely sell items on both that are 20-30% less in the BGG marketplace.

BGG marketplace: Good, nice low commission, sales history is okay, skewed by auctions and data.

BGG auction: Best price to get a deal, fastest way to sell in bulk, not great for sales data because of limited knowledge about them.

So if I were to make an argument against using eBay prices, it would be that they are over exagurated, not under.
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Re: High and Mighty VIII - A higher value math trade - discussion thread
hestiansun wrote:


This way, there is one simple final source - speilboy - and everyone can check there.



Biggest problem for me is that my work blocks spielboy.


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Re: High and Mighty VIII - A higher value math trade - discussion thread
jessecuster3 wrote:
hestiansun wrote:


This way, there is one simple final source - speilboy - and everyone can check there.



Biggest problem for me is that my work blocks spielboy.




Spielboy is not longer necessary/relevant. The marketplace how has price history build in.

 
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Re: High and Mighty VIII - A higher value math trade - discussion thread
BentlyCash wrote:
So if I were to make an argument against using eBay prices, it would be that they are over exagurated, not under.


As I said elsewhere, that was my original intent when I created the rule eight years ago - so that people wouldn't use eBay to try to qualify items inappropriately.

But my personal experience has shown me that sometimes you get a steal due to an inexperienced seller and so it seems fair to apply the rule to eBay as a source in general.

Yes, you can sometimes get a steal in an auction here but there's enough data to identify outliers more easily.
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