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Subject: Clarification regarding deception and concealed information rss

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n00j br
United Kingdom
Norfolk
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A situation arose in a recent game which not all player's were comfortable with and I wondered what the general opinion would be.

In the late game when players are all or nearly all kicking the level 10 door in we tend to start working together turn by turn to stop the current player from defeating their monster.

Obviously if you are holding good buff cards you would rather other players spent their own buff cards first so might try a little bluffing by saying "I don't have anything, can anyone stop this?"
The idea being you want other players to spend their big cards so they have less to use on you.

The main issue arose from the fact that while all player's were discussing what they could and couldn't do they were not actually playing any cards. This created room for outright lying in an attempt to draw buffs from the defending player and other players trying to buff the monster.

Is this allowed or does saying something like "well I can buff by +5 and reduce attack by -2 with my thief" while not actually playing the +5 or discarding a card for the -2 mean that players do not have to commit any cards until everything else has played out? In this case the player was concealing that they had even bigger monster buffs to deal with the response from the defending player. When the defending player did buff expecting to get hit with the +5 -2 the bigger monster buffs were produced instead. This caused an argument as the +5 -2 were never actually played allowing them to be kept in hand.

I personally feel this play is in keeping with the nature of the game. Surely it is up to the defending player to call this behaviour out by by saying "fine, it is now buffed beyond my current attack" then playing concealed buffs once the cards have been played?
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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You can threaten as much as you want, and no, you don't have to pull through.

However, there is no reason to play out your cards until those threatening you play theirs. Remember that anyone on either side of the combat can play any card that is valid to be played into the combat at any time, so typically this means the defender will never waste cards until those buffing the monster actually carry through with their threats.

Now, as for the situation where everyone is arguing and not playing cards, there is a rule for that too. If the player fighting the monster is currently winning, he can claim this. Other players have what is called a 'reasonable time' to stop this win. It is not reasonable to spend minutes arguing about who is going to stop the win. I typically allow for a going...going....gone style, provided everyone knew what was at stake (and allowing for somebody to ask for a few seconds delay just to confirm the card they have does what they think it does).

So yes, you can threaten, yers you can lie, but the threats don't force others to act, and if you argue too long, you're going to miss out.
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Steve Gitis (just my village's name)
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Clipper wrote:

So yes, you can threaten, yers you can lie, but the threats don't force others to act, and if you argue too long, you're going to miss out.

Correct!

You can bluff, you can play cards, you can claim that you have anything you want to scary your opponents, but for only 15-20 seconds (a reasonable time to discuss and act). After that you can't do anything, as your time-to-act has expired.
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n00j br
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Norfolk
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Thanks for your responses. I hadn't really thought about the defending player having the ability to call time. This makes total sense though as slipping a victory through while all the other players argue about how they will stop you is very Munchkiny indeed.
 
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Andrew Hackard
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n00j wrote:
Thanks for your responses. I hadn't really thought about the defending player having the ability to call time. This makes total sense though as slipping a victory through while all the other players argue about how they will stop you is very Munchkiny indeed.

But it's not slipping a victory - you have to actually say "I am winning this fight; does anyone want to stop me?" so all players know what is going on.

And just a side note, because I've seen a couple of players do this and I want to slap them every time: the "reasonable time" counter DOES NOT start as soon as you flip over a monster card. You are required to tell them that you are winning, and by how much, and they're allowed to ask what the monster's bad stuff is and any other questions about your cards or the monster you're fighting, if it's relevant to whether they want to interfere or not. In fact, if you flip over a card and say, "It's the Gazebo and I'm beating it - one...two..." you are NOT giving reasonable time. Pulling that crap would get you banned from my table. </petpeeve>
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