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Empire of the Sun» Forums » Rules

Subject: India surrender rss

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frank gallagher
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I've read previous posts, including this one with an answer from the designer https://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/14060406#14060406
However, the answer given is not what the rules say, as odd as that may sound. The rules say "If at any time the Allied player controls any portion of Northern India, by attacking out of Calcutta, or via Amphibious invasion, or by card play, during the next National Status Segment move the marker to the India Stable position to begin the cycle again." If Japan moves the India marker into Unstable (or further to the left) without occupying all the Northern India hexes, this thread says the marker moves back to Stable during the National Status phase. Two issues:

1. If the Allies don't occupy a N. India hex "by attacking out of Calcutta, or via Amphibious invasion, or by card play" but simply because
the Japanese have never conquered those hexes and the allied units have been there all along, then the rules as written do not direct you to move the marker back to Stable. It's conditional on the Allies doing what's specified in the rules. If that's not the intent, the rule should say "for any reason."

2. Now, assuming that Japan has in fact conquered and controlled all 5 hexes--As written, the rules say that even if the Japanese reconquer all the hexes later in the turn, as long as the Allies held one hex for any period of time during the turn, the marker moves back to stable--even if Japan occupies the hexes during the National Status phase. Is this correct?

It's Mark's game and I'm glad he's clarified the rule (though #2 above seems real counter-intuitive) but shouldn't the rules be rewritten to reflect that?
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Francisco Colmenares
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Quote:
he rules say "If at any time the Allied player controls any portion of Northern India, by attacking out of Calcutta, or via Amphibious invasion, or by card play, during the next National Status Segment move the marker to the India Stable position to begin the cycle again."

The intent is that those are just examples of how the allies can gain control of a northern India hex. BTW, your rules quote is wrong, or it's an old version. You don't wait during the next National Status Segment to reset the marker. The operative phrase is: "If at any time the Allied player controls any portion of Northern India ... immediately move the marker to the India Stable position and begin the cycle again." The instant the Allies have control of a Northern India hex for any reason you reset to stable (unless India has surrendered already). So there's no point to playing a Gandhi card that moves the marker if the allies have control of at least one Northern India hex, because it will instantaneously reset.

Quote:
2. Now, assuming that Japan has in fact conquered and controlled all 5 hexes--As written, the rules say that even if the Japanese reconquer all the hexes later in the turn, as long as the Allies held one hex for any period of time during the turn, the marker moves back to stable--even if Japan occupies the hexes during the National Status phase. Is this correct?

No. Notice that the rules indicate the reset occurs immediately. So if Japan controls all 5 hexes during the National Status Segment, the marker moves left. If this were true Japan would need an extra turn to start the India clock and you would have to remember when this happened. The game is not intended to have memory so yo go by the condition on the board at that moment.
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Mark Herman
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All correct, thanks Francisco.
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frank gallagher
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Makes sense. But the "Living Rules" in GMT has the rules exactly as I quoted.
 
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Francisco Colmenares
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frankgallagher wrote:
Makes sense. But the "Living Rules" in GMT has the rules exactly as I quoted.

The link has been updated in recent weeks (they were improperly pointing to the older v2.0 rules). I just checked, it has the v3.0 rules and this is the text in 13.62:

13.62 wrote:
If at any time the Allied player controls any hex Northern India, by attacking out of Calcutta, or via Amphibious invasion, or by card play, immediately move the marker to the India Stable position and begin the cycle again. However, if India has already surrendered, the marker is not moved
 
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frank gallagher
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Thanks! I'll update.
 
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