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Austerlitz 1805: Rising Eagles» Forums » Rules

Subject: No Orders rss

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David Brown
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Could someone please clarify what are the implications if you choose not give a formation any orders.

I can't see anything in the rules hat explains what happens
 
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Björn Engqvist
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There is really no benefit to having no orders, so it should not be chosen per se. Rather, no order is what you revert to if you (usually voluntarily) void your formation's defence order by moving more than 1 hex or starting a melee.

With no order you are resigned to independent move (1/2 MA if qft passed) for all your units (which is what you can do with a geographical order anyway if you want to post units in other places) and do not get any defensive benefits.
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David Brown
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Thanks Bjorn.

If I am understanding correctly, no orders means you have to relay on Independent move - I thought that may be the case but I wasn't sure from the rules
 
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Lawrence Hung
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Wan Chai
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I also played this way. I think the Defense Order is useful only when the Cavalry are closing in and you want to fire with the -1 DRM bonus when the enemy is close by.
 
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Björn Engqvist
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thirtybrowns wrote:
Thanks Bjorn.

If I am understanding correctly, no orders means you have to relay on Independent move - I thought that may be the case but I wasn't sure from the rules


It may not be chrystal clear but I think we should be careful no to read too much into the "no order" concept, remember that no order is really only the absence of a proper order: geographical and defence are the possible orders to give unless I read the chapter wrong. No order status as far as I can tell, is only used in two cases:

a, for OOC units and cav in a formation with defence order: "Units outside command range and cavalry units even within command range are considered with “no orders” and must use IM." Here the formation retains its prior order.

b, when a unit "uses an “independent move” to move more than 1 hex, or attacks in melee combat, the entire formation immediately loses its defence order benefit, until a new defence order can be issued to that formation. Remove the formation’s order chit from the defence box and place it in the no order box.[...]"

A bit further down we get general information: "Units or formations with “no order” may only use independent movement (IM). Units with “no orders” can fire and declare melees normally."
 
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Björn Engqvist
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Lawrence Hung wrote:
I also played this way. I think the Defense Order is useful only when the Cavalry are closing in and you want to fire with the -1 DRM bonus when the enemy is close by.


I think you have that backwards, if you are in defence order your units are penalized if they suffer artillery fire, not the other way around.
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Vincent GERARD
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And getting the DRM in clear terrain
 
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Lawrence Hung
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Delirium_EU wrote:
Lawrence Hung wrote:
I also played this way. I think the Defense Order is useful only when the Cavalry are closing in and you want to fire with the -1 DRM bonus when the enemy is close by.


I think you have that backwards, if you are in defence order your units are penalized if they suffer artillery fire, not the other way around.


Ah, Bjorn, you are right. I was confused by the word "Reversely" in the rules, thinking that the opposite effect for artillery fire, following the cavalry attack on infantry in defense order. Sometime I thought that the rules are cluttered with some unnecessary wording. A case in point was that my opponent just thought that there would be a one-hex guaranteed movement from IM when reading rule 11.2. I don't know why such a thought comes up to him.

 
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Jason Roach
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Lawrence Hung wrote:
Delirium_EU wrote:
Lawrence Hung wrote:
I also played this way. I think the Defense Order is useful only when the Cavalry are closing in and you want to fire with the -1 DRM bonus when the enemy is close by.


I think you have that backwards, if you are in defence order your units are penalized if they suffer artillery fire, not the other way around.


Ah, Bjorn, you are right. I was confused by the word "Reversely" in the rules, thinking that the opposite effect for artillery fire, following the cavalry attack on infantry in defense order. Sometime I thought that the rules are cluttered with some unnecessary wording. A case in point was that my opponent just thought that there would be a one-hex guaranteed movement from IM when reading rule 11.2. I don't know why such a thought comes up to him.



I don't see the word "Reversely" in the rules. Could you point out where you were confused by this?

 
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Jason Roach
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Delirium_EU wrote:
thirtybrowns wrote:
Thanks Bjorn.

If I am understanding correctly, no orders means you have to relay on Independent move - I thought that may be the case but I wasn't sure from the rules


It may not be chrystal clear but I think we should be careful no to read too much into the "no order" concept, remember that no order is really only the absence of a proper order: geographical and defence are the possible orders to give unless I read the chapter wrong. No order status as far as I can tell, is only used in two cases:

a, for OOC units and cav in a formation with defence order: "Units outside command range and cavalry units even within command range are considered with “no orders” and must use IM." Here the formation retains its prior order.

b, when a unit "uses an “independent move” to move more than 1 hex, or attacks in melee combat, the entire formation immediately loses its defence order benefit, until a new defence order can be issued to that formation. Remove the formation’s order chit from the defence box and place it in the no order box.[...]"

A bit further down we get general information: "Units or formations with “no order” may only use independent movement (IM). Units with “no orders” can fire and declare melees normally."


This seems rather clear, but that is not saying it couldn't be more clear.

Edit, perhaps there should be a quick note at the top of the orders section.
 
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Lawrence Hung
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11.1.b

Enemy cavalry units attacking friendly infantry lead unit under
a defence order will not benefit from the -1 DRM for attacking
infantry and artillery in the open [see “Terrain effect chart”].
Reversely, enemy artillery fire versus a hex in open terrain with a
lead infantry unit with defence order will get a -1 DRM bonus to
its fire DR.
 
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Jason Roach
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Lawrence Hung wrote:
11.1.b

Enemy cavalry units attacking friendly infantry lead unit under
a defence order will not benefit from the -1 DRM for attacking
infantry and artillery in the open [see “Terrain effect chart”].
Reversely, enemy artillery fire versus a hex in open terrain with a
lead infantry unit with defence order will get a -1 DRM bonus to
its fire DR.


Thanks Lawrence, but that is not from the current version of the rules; it looked odd, that is why I asked.

I would use the current version.

-Jason
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David Brown
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Quote:
A bit further down we get general information: "Units or formations with “no order” may only use independent movement (IM). Units with “no orders” can fire and declare melees normally."


I think it may have been clearer to me if the word 'may' was replaced with 'can only'
 
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