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David Griffin
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1. Can you build up FFTs at a factory where you don't have a rocket and if you can is that a good strategy (to have say 8 WT at all your factories just in case)? Presumably if you do, that takes an operation and would thus be a tradoff since you could take income or do research?

2. The ventures often have you do 3 of one kind of site claims in order to do the card. If the player industrializes those claims, he will devalue his own VP on the sites since there will be 3 factories of that kind. So I'm guessing that you only industrialize one of them and just claim the others?

3. Regarding buggies and Mars, if you fail your first prospecting roll on Mars, you can reroll again, but if you do you cannot then roll on the other Mars sites right? So I presume if that happens you are better off rerolling and then taking off and landing on one of the other sites and trying there? And if you succeed in your prospecting roll, you should try the other sites? But I'm not sure because if you then fail on one of the other sites it's busted right?

4. How much trading goes on in your games and what do you end up trading? Does the ESA player "sell" push bonuses? For how much? Can he do that for someone else and still do himself in his next turn? Do people sell cards and if so, for how much? I'm bad at trading so I'm hoping you can tell me what goes on in a multiplayer game (If I can ever find anyone willing to play). Do people usually trade to get the gigawatt thruster they actually can use or the freighter that actually works for their factory? It seems like you'd have to buy a lot of those to get one you need. Or do you buy whatever is there and then try to go create that kind of factory?

5. How often do you decommision cards in your rocket on the way home, or how often do you actually go home instead of decommissioning everything? How often do you try to launch your next mission from your factory, and what are the considerations for deciding?

6. In the 3rd edition Reference Guide, it says you get a free freighter for being the first one to industrialize a site of a particular letter. I know this is a rule from 2nd edition but it's here in 3rd (page 16). Is it still supposed to be valid? Do people do that regularly?

7. Do robot colonists have a separate patent deck, or do they live in a combined colonist deck with the human colonists?

8. The Bernal has a dirt rocket, but there is no initial source of dirt fuel right? How do you fuel it initially? And the Bernal can't land right, so even if you move adjacent to a rock (even the moon), can you use a robonaut to dirt refuel the Bernal?

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8. Dirt can also use water or isotope.
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Rich James
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carbon_dragon wrote:
1. Can you build up FFTs at a factory where you don't have a rocket and if you can is that a good strategy (to have say 8 WT at all your factories just in case)? Presumably if you do, that takes an operation and would thus be a tradoff since you could take income or do research?

There's been some discussion on this. I'm not sure where the official consensus landed, but I play it that you can create FFTs at a factory. However, if you do that then they go into one of your two available outposts. I think it is a waste of time and operations to create them as contingency. I would only do it as part of a specific plan I wanted to execute.

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2. The ventures often have you do 3 of one kind of site claims in order to do the card. If the player industrializes those claims, he will devalue his own VP on the sites since there will be 3 factories of that kind. So I'm guessing that you only industrialize one of them and just claim the others?

You still net more VPs when you industrialize the same spectral type sites.
And the venture adds in more. But I agree it is more efficient to industrialize different spectral sites to maximize VPs.

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3. Regarding buggies and Mars, if you fail your first prospecting roll on Mars, you can reroll again, but if you do you cannot then roll on the other Mars sites right? So I presume if that happens you are better off rerolling and then taking off and landing on one of the other sites and trying there? And if you succeed in your prospecting roll, you should try the other sites? But I'm not sure because if you then fail on one of the other sites it's busted right?

You can't fail a prospecting roll on Mars. It is a size 10 site; you will always roll less than 10. In other situations where you could fail the roll, you have to successfully prospect the site your buggy is on first, before you can try prospecting along buggy paths. Prospecting along those paths can be done via a separate prospecting operation.

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4. How much trading goes on in your games and what do you end up trading? Does the ESA player "sell" push bonuses? For how much? Can he do that for someone else and still do himself in his next turn? Do people sell cards and if so, for how much? I'm bad at trading so I'm hoping you can tell me what goes on in a multiplayer game (If I can ever find anyone willing to play). Do people usually trade to get the gigawatt thruster they actually can use or the freighter that actually works for their factory? It seems like you'd have to buy a lot of those to get one you need. Or do you buy whatever is there and then try to go create that kind of factory?

We do a lot of trading. Usually selling a faction privilege, like ESA selling their push bonus (typically for 1WT). You can strike any deal you can think of, with some limitations. Trading cards: players have to end up with the same number of cards after the trade. And they have to have colocated stacks to swap cards in space between those stacks​.

In our games, I have not seen any trading to get a Freighter or GW thruster. You can only have one of each in use at a time. Maybe a more cutthroat player would attempt to hoard these to block other players (Shimizu tactic?). We just haven't seen it in our games (yet).

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5. How often do you decommision cards in your rocket on the way home, or how often do you actually go home instead of decommissioning everything? How often do you try to launch your next mission from your factory, and what are the considerations for deciding?

Hard to measure how often. It's always a judgement call. Is it more efficient to boost the card again too fly it somewhere? Actually, on a homeward leg, I don't think I ever decommission anything from my rocket. Decommissioning happens more often at a site, either because I managed to strand the rocket or because it completed it's mission (industrialize site) and I want to either ET build a white card already in space, boost the card to start another mission or sell the card.

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6. In the 3rd edition Reference Guide, it says you get a free freighter for being the first one to industrialize a site of a particular letter. I know this is a rule from 2nd edition but it's here in 3rd (page 16). Is it still supposed to be valid? Do people do that regularly?

That's an oversight on the rules. In the Basic game your Freighter is created when you ET produce a card. With the Freighter module, you have to research to get a Freighter card, then ET produce it to use it.

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7. Do robot colonists have a separate patent deck, or do they live in a combined colonist deck with the human colonists?

They are all in one stack: the Colonists stack.

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8. The Bernal has a dirt rocket, but there is no initial source of dirt fuel right? How do you fuel it initially? And the Bernal can't land right, so even if you move adjacent to a rock (even the moon), can you use a robonaut to dirt refuel the Bernal?

You can load WTs into a Bernal as dirt fuel. If the bernal has a dirtside, you can Factory refuel it. Bernals can land on sites if they have sufficient thrust. Usually they are too heavy to do that though. You could also boost cards to your bernal, then use Phileas Fogg refueling (see glossary under Dirt Rocket).
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arjisme wrote:


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3. Regarding buggies and Mars, if you fail your first prospecting roll on Mars, you can reroll again, but if you do you cannot then roll on the other Mars sites right? So I presume if that happens you are better off rerolling and then taking off and landing on one of the other sites and trying there? And if you succeed in your prospecting roll, you should try the other sites? But I'm not sure because if you then fail on one of the other sites it's busted right?

You can't fail a prospecting roll on Mars. It is a size 10 site; you will always roll less than 10. In other situations where you could fail the roll, you have to successfully prospect the site your buggy is on first, before you can try prospecting along buggy paths. Prospecting along those paths can be done via a separate prospecting operation.



Just to clarify a bit further, because this seems to be one of the most overlooked rules, when you prospect, you roll against the size (e.g., 3S) rather than the hydration (e.g. 3 water drops).
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arjisme wrote:
carbon_dragon wrote:
3. Regarding buggies and Mars, if you fail your first prospecting roll on Mars, you can reroll again, but if you do you cannot then roll on the other Mars sites right? So I presume if that happens you are better off rerolling and then taking off and landing on one of the other sites and trying there? And if you succeed in your prospecting roll, you should try the other sites? But I'm not sure because if you then fail on one of the other sites it's busted right?

You can't fail a prospecting roll on Mars. It is a size 10 site; you will always roll less than 10. In other situations where you could fail the roll, you have to successfully prospect the site your buggy is on first, before you can try prospecting along buggy paths. Prospecting along those paths can be done via a separate prospecting operation.


It's not a separate prospecting operation. You do one operation and prospect all the sites connected by buggy roads that your buggy has the ISRU for and that aren't already claimed. Also, there's no case involving buggy roads where the roll could fail; all sites with buggy roads are at least size 8.

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4. How much trading goes on in your games and what do you end up trading? Does the ESA player "sell" push bonuses? For how much? Can he do that for someone else and still do himself in his next turn? Do people sell cards and if so, for how much? I'm bad at trading so I'm hoping you can tell me what goes on in a multiplayer game (If I can ever find anyone willing to play). Do people usually trade to get the gigawatt thruster they actually can use or the freighter that actually works for their factory? It seems like you'd have to buy a lot of those to get one you need. Or do you buy whatever is there and then try to go create that kind of factory?

We do a lot of trading. Usually selling a faction privilege, like ESA selling their push bonus (typically for 1WT). You can strike any deal you can think of, with some limitations. Trading cards: players have to end up with the same number of cards after the trade. And they have to have colocated stacks to swap cards in space between those stacks​.


Only hand cards must be traded one-for-one. Cards in space can be traded freely (but must be colocated as you say).

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In our games, I have not seen any trading to get a Freighter or GW thruster. You can only have one of each in use at a time. Maybe a more cutthroat player would attempt to hoard these to block other players (Shimizu tactic?). We just haven't seen it in our games (yet).


Hoarding cards as Shimizu seems risky to me due to the Anti-Trust operation. In Anarchy or War you can't do it, and otherwise it's only safe if you're in power or if the color that is in power isn't in the game.

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8. The Bernal has a dirt rocket, but there is no initial source of dirt fuel right? How do you fuel it initially? And the Bernal can't land right, so even if you move adjacent to a rock (even the moon), can you use a robonaut to dirt refuel the Bernal?

You can load WTs into a Bernal as dirt fuel.


You can also load WTs as water fuel. You only have to downgrade the fuel if you mix it with dirt fuel.

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Bernals can land on sites if they have sufficient thrust.


Bernals can land on sites but can't enter lander burns, so they'll never land on anything with size 6 or greater anyway.

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You could also boost cards to your bernal, then use Phileas Fogg refueling (see glossary under Dirt Rocket).


That seems inefficient. The number of tanks you get from Phileas Fogg is the total mass of the cards. The cost in WT to boost the cards is also their mass. So effectively you've just used an operation to turn water into dirt.
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carbon_dragon wrote:
4. How much trading goes on in your games and what do you end up trading? Does the ESA player "sell" push bonuses? For how much? Can he do that for someone else and still do himself in his next turn?


There's no restriction on how many ships can receive the push bonus. Thematically, the push laser is only beamed out while she ship is thrusting, and ships only spend a small fraction of their time thrusting.
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Regarding Bernal fueling (or dirt rocket fueling) I got in trouble my last game where I had "converted" to a dirt fuel rocket and then realized that all my water was now dirt and couldn't convert to my crew thruster to land. I ignored that and landed anyway, but I'm trying to figure out what I SHOULD have done.

Ok, so I figure yes I could run my Bernal (or dirt rocket) on WT or even Isotope fuel if I was crazy. But I figure next time once I get somewhere where I can load dirt, I need to convert all my WT (except what I'm about to USE) to FFTs. Then load the dirt. Then go about my merry way. If I convert to the crew thruster (especially for a dirt rocket vs. the Bernal) then I convert all the dirt to FFTs, load in all the water, and then land. When I take off, I convert all remaining water to FFTs, load all the dirt FFTs to loaded dirt, and take off.

Does this sound right?
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Peristarkawan wrote:
It's not a separate prospecting operation. You do one operation and prospect all the sites connected by buggy roads that your buggy has the ISRU for and that aren't already claimed. Also, there's no case involving buggy roads where the roll could fail; all sites with buggy roads are at least size 8.

I didn't have the map in front of me when I answered, so could not confirm if there was a case where a buggy road existed on a site where you could fail the prospect roll. As you've pointed out, there are no such sites, so you will not need a separate prospecting operation to claim all sites connected via a buggy road.

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Hoarding cards as Shimizu seems risky to me due to the Anti-Trust operation. In Anarchy or War you can't do it, and otherwise it's only safe if you're in power or if the color that is in power isn't in the game.

Anti-trust is a good point. Another reason not to worry too much over this.

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You can also load WTs as water fuel. You only have to downgrade the fuel if you mix it with dirt fuel.

Of course, but the question was regarding a Bernal as a dirt rocket. Ah, but I think your point was that you don't have to immediately downgrade the WTs to dirt in a dirt rocket. That's only needed if the rocket already has loaded dirt for fuel. Good clarification.

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Bernals can land on sites but can't enter lander burns, so they'll never land on anything with size 6 or greater anyway.

True. Their first prohibition will likely be their lack of thrust anyway, but lander burns are off limits too. For dirt fuel, an easy target near home orbits is Nyx.

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You could also boost cards to your bernal, then use Phileas Fogg refueling (see glossary under Dirt Rocket).

That seems inefficient. The number of tanks you get from Phileas Fogg is the total mass of the cards. The cost in WT to boost the cards is also their mass. So effectively you've just used an operation to turn water into dirt.

I agree with you. But there can be cases where you have a card in your bernal for other reasons and you no longer need it. Then it can be a reasonable choice if you are looking for fuel.
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carbon_dragon wrote:
Ok, so I figure yes I could run my Bernal (or dirt rocket) on WT or even Isotope fuel if I was crazy. But I figure next time once I get somewhere where I can load dirt, I need to convert all my WT (except what I'm about to USE) to FFTs. Then load the dirt. Then go about my merry way. If I convert to the crew thruster (especially for a dirt rocket vs. the Bernal) then I convert all the dirt to FFTs, load in all the water, and then land. When I take off, I convert all remaining water to FFTs, load all the dirt FFTs to loaded dirt, and take off.

Does this sound right?

Yes, that sounds right to me.
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carbon_dragon wrote:
1. Can you build up FFTs at a factory where you don't have a rocket and if you can is that a good strategy (to have say 8 WT at all your factories just in case)? Presumably if you do, that takes an operation and would thus be a tradoff since you could take income or do research?


Current rules unclear, but probably. Seems reasonable to me, anyway. Would certainly take Refuelling operations to perform.

carbon_dragon wrote:
2. The ventures often have you do 3 of one kind of site claims in order to do the card. If the player industrializes those claims, he will devalue his own VP on the sites since there will be 3 factories of that kind. So I'm guessing that you only industrialize one of them and just claim the others?


You're not strictly devaluing, you're getting diminishing returns.

(i.e., if you make three C factories, you could see that as three factories worth 6 points for a total of 18, or one worth 10, one worth 6 and one worth 2, ignoring the bonus points for cubes and colonies.)

Having said that, aside from these bonus points (you'll never *lose* points here), there's little reason to industrialise multiple factories of the same letter, unless you're building a factory in a useful place (and then, usually only when playing with Futures)

carbon_dragon wrote:
3. Regarding buggies and Mars, if you fail your first prospecting roll on Mars, you can reroll again, but if you do you cannot then roll on the other Mars sites right? So I presume if that happens you are better off rerolling and then taking off and landing on one of the other sites and trying there? And if you succeed in your prospecting roll, you should try the other sites? But I'm not sure because if you then fail on one of the other sites it's busted right?


There's no way to fail a prospecting roll on Mars, nor any other site that is large enough to have multiple hexes (you're rolling 1D6 against site size).

carbon_dragon wrote:
4. How much trading goes on in your games and what do you end up trading? Does the ESA player "sell" push bonuses? For how much? Can he do that for someone else and still do himself in his next turn? Do people sell cards and if so, for how much? I'm bad at trading so I'm hoping you can tell me what goes on in a multiplayer game (If I can ever find anyone willing to play). Do people usually trade to get the gigawatt thruster they actually can use or the freighter that actually works for their factory? It seems like you'd have to buy a lot of those to get one you need. Or do you buy whatever is there and then try to go create that kind of factory?


Generally, not as much as we should. Check out some of the Play by Forum games. This kind of player interaction is always going to be group and game dependant. Like politics and combat, a lot of the time this is irrelevant, sometimes it defines the game.

In terms of buying freighter and GW thrusters - the decks are small, and cycle quickly with event rolls, but choosing when to search for something in particular is a really important part of the game, and non-trivial.

carbon_dragon wrote:
5. How often do you decommision cards in your rocket on the way home, or how often do you actually go home instead of decommissioning everything? How often do you try to launch your next mission from your factory, and what are the considerations for deciding?


That is entirely rocket stack dependant. A good example of something I'd try to reuse is Project Orion - boosting an Orion stack is an expensive operation, so if it's possible to reuse the stack, then you probably should. This will often mean taking an addition reactor for industrialisation operations.

Likewise, anything that's going to have a hard time getting through the Van Allen belts (e.g., Metastable Helium thruster), is probably worth maintaining in space. Conversely, Solar sails are disposable.

carbon_dragon wrote:
6. In the 3rd edition Reference Guide, it says you get a free freighter for being the first one to industrialize a site of a particular letter. I know this is a rule from 2nd edition but it's here in 3rd (page 16). Is it still supposed to be valid? Do people do that regularly?


Yes, this is wrong. This was true in second edition, and it was carried across in the Reference Guide in 3rd.

carbon_dragon wrote:
7. Do robot colonists have a separate patent deck, or do they live in a combined colonist deck with the human colonists?


In the main game, they exist in the colonist stack. In interstellar (if I recall correctly), they live in a separate stack, and whether they should have their own deck was discussed in the original development.

carbon_dragon wrote:
8. The Bernal has a dirt rocket, but there is no initial source of dirt fuel right? How do you fuel it initially? And the Bernal can't land right, so even if you move adjacent to a rock (even the moon), can you use a robonaut to dirt refuel the Bernal?


Any rocket can use higher fuel grades. Water rockets can burn expensive isotope fuel, and dirt rockets can burn water and isotopes. Doing so is usually pretty silly, aside from dirt rockets operating in or around LEO.
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Quote:
1. Can you build up FFTs at a factory where you don't have a rocket and if you can is that a good strategy (to have say 8 WT at all your factories just in case)? Presumably if you do, that takes an operation and would thus be a tradoff since you could take income or do research?


Even if you rule this "illegal", there are ways to finagle it by outposting your rocket, temporarily making a new rocket at the factory, then refueling, outposting the fuel and reassembling the original rocket. There are only narrow circumstances where this is a bad idea (e.g. marginal loss of isotope fuel on the conversions), so the group thought is to simply allow the refuel operation without a rocket and not worry about it.
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Domfluff wrote:
...
carbon_dragon wrote:
6. In the 3rd edition Reference Guide, it says you get a free freighter for being the first one to industrialize a site of a particular letter. I know this is a rule from 2nd edition but it's here in 3rd (page 16). Is it still supposed to be valid? Do people do that regularly?


Yes, this is wrong. This was true in second edition, and it was carried across in the Reference Guide in 3rd.


Has the designer actually said this? The 2nd and 3rd edition games are pretty darned similar as far as I can tell from watching YouTube videos and if that was a rule in 2nd edition and the 3rd edition actually comes out and says it directly like that, one would feel a little bit of doubt. I don't see this as a big deal because I'm not even convinced I should EVER use the freighter module. It seems WAY more complicated than the basic game Freighters and what do you get? Just a little more carrying capacity for SOME freighters at the expense of having to research them and only being able to build individual freighters on a particular site which you may not have etc etc.

Can any of you convince me that there is an actual player reason to use the advanced Freighter module instead of just continuing to use the basic freighter rules (which are easy and effective)?
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The Reference Guide if is not the rules. The rules are clear on this: the Reference Guide needs an update to align with the rules.

The Freighter module gives you access to Freighter Futures, if you are playing with the End Game module. Also, promoted Freighters give you mobile factories, which can be quite useful for industrializing a claim without needing a robonaut and refinery.
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carbon_dragon wrote:
Domfluff wrote:
...
carbon_dragon wrote:
6. In the 3rd edition Reference Guide, it says you get a free freighter for being the first one to industrialize a site of a particular letter. I know this is a rule from 2nd edition but it's here in 3rd (page 16). Is it still supposed to be valid? Do people do that regularly?


Yes, this is wrong. This was true in second edition, and it was carried across in the Reference Guide in 3rd.


Has the designer actually said this? The 2nd and 3rd edition games are pretty darned similar as far as I can tell from watching YouTube videos and if that was a rule in 2nd edition and the 3rd edition actually comes out and says it directly like that, one would feel a little bit of doubt.


The only statement about it is in the Strategy guide section of the Reference book. It is not in the rules of the 3rd edition at all, as far as I know. There's no need for a statement from the designer as it's not an actual rule.

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I don't see this as a big deal because I'm not even convinced I should EVER use the freighter module. It seems WAY more complicated than the basic game Freighters and what do you get? Just a little more carrying capacity for SOME freighters at the expense of having to research them and only being able to build individual freighters on a particular site which you may not have etc etc.

Can any of you convince me that there is an actual player reason to use the advanced Freighter module instead of just continuing to use the basic freighter rules (which are easy and effective)?


Without the freighter module, you're limited to a single card created with an ET production. The freighter module limits a freighter to a certain mass, enabling transportation of multiple cards. The freighter module is initially a bit more limiting, as the black-side freighters are typically limited to a mass of 1. But the capacity of promoted freighters is much more, allowing you to carry several cards. You can also carry FFTs and pick up stranded outposts, and host of other things.

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arjisme wrote:
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5. How often do you decommision cards in your rocket on the way home, or how often do you actually go home instead of decommissioning everything? How often do you try to launch your next mission from your factory, and what are the considerations for deciding?

Hard to measure how often. It's always a judgement call. Is it more efficient to boost the card again too fly it somewhere? Actually, on a homeward leg, I don't think I ever decommission anything from my rocket. Decommissioning happens more often at a site, either because I managed to strand the rocket or because it completed it's mission (industrialize site) and I want to either ET build a white card already in space, boost the card to start another mission or sell the card.


I'll add that I often leave a card or two in an outpost because I don't want to fill up my hand. The hand limit is a major part of multiplayer strategy.
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rstites25 wrote:
arjisme wrote:


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3. Regarding buggies and Mars, if you fail your first prospecting roll on Mars, you can reroll again, but if you do you cannot then roll on the other Mars sites right? So I presume if that happens you are better off rerolling and then taking off and landing on one of the other sites and trying there? And if you succeed in your prospecting roll, you should try the other sites? But I'm not sure because if you then fail on one of the other sites it's busted right?

You can't fail a prospecting roll on Mars. It is a size 10 site; you will always roll less than 10. In other situations where you could fail the roll, you have to successfully prospect the site your buggy is on first, before you can try prospecting along buggy paths. Prospecting along those paths can be done via a separate prospecting operation.



Just to clarify a bit further, because this seems to be one of the most overlooked rules, when you prospect, you roll against the size (e.g., 3S) rather than the hydration (e.g. 3 water drops).

To clarify even further, it's not possible to fail a prospecting roll on a site with buggy paths because ALL of them are size 6 or more. So the whole question is moot.
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Ok, I'm not playing strictly according to Hoyle here, I'm playing CEO (but easier -- 0WT for cards, no hand limit, and when I take support cards I'm taking cards that actually work for the main card). That's not the question though. So the rocket I'm using is pretty amazing. At least it's giving me the feel for what might be possible.



The thruster has the generator in it's support path, but it's not pushable so I read it as 9 - 2 + 8 / 1/4 * 1/4 * 2 so 15/(1/8). Does that seem right? The +2 is from being in the tug class which says in the training manual also doubles fuel use?

So does that mean that I'm immune to radiation hazards since I have a thrust of more than 6? or am I reading that wrong?

Also look at this. Now when you're on a path and it dead ends in a T and you have to go one way or the other, do you have to spend 2 burns to proceed or not? I assume that if you COULD go straight down a path, and you instead turn off, that is 2 burns. If you look at above Kraken Mare where the path just turns into the line above that location, does THAT burn 2? I'm not clear on what constitutes a coast and what constitutes a burn. when you seem to maybe switch tracks.



And I'm using colored bernals just to remind me of where I'm trying to go by the way. And just trying to calculate the thrust going through the rats nest that is Jupiter, Saturn, and Uranus is pretty hard even if you know what it's supposed to be. I'm trying to land on the Saturn Aerostat. I've counted several times and ended up at a dead end but I think I finally see the path to get through the 2.5 million lander burns. It's awfully difficult to not make a mistake though.

The hand limit is really annoying if you're trying to build up a supports rocket because you would have to keep boosting cards, which would be OK, but every time I boost a card I get it decommissioned by an event it seems like so it's a lot easier to build up the rocket and then boost it all at once. I guess I could play the Chinese. All these rules I'm not playing right now all make the game take longer (need for more water, need to research more to get just a working card -- not a good one, just a working one -- and need to avoid pad explosions). They all seem like good rules if you grok this game and are looking for more challenges. For me they just make the game take 5 times as long.
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Rex Stites
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It looks like you're using a GW thruster? If so, you ignore all modifiers from supports other than solar modifiers (which tend to be negative when you're operating far out in the solar system). See "Modifiers" at the very beginning of the GW Thruster module (S.) The same is true for GW thrusters promoted to a TW thruster. See S4, second sentence.

The trick to using a GW thruster is to be patient enough to get enough fuel for them since it's 1 per refuel operation. (A site of the appropriate spectral type with a high hydration level can generate FFTs much quicker). Another thing to keep in mind is taking advantage of the Solar Oberth. Since the GW/TW thrusters are often high base thrust, you can get a lot of free burns from it as it flings you out to the outer solar system.
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Patrick Schifano

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If you use the robonaut missile thruster you will get 4-2+8 * 2/4 so you would get 10 * 1/2. Plus the MW thruster will use Water which is much easier to get than the Isotope fuel. Both cases your thrust is high enough that even in the red sector radiation belt hazards are meaningless. This is indeed correct.

Unless it is an open circle, it counts as a pivot(2 burns) on the 'swtichbacks'.

If you use an Aerobrake then the amount of thrust needed to land is technically 0. You still have to pay for the burns, but you could use something less beefy than an 11 net thrust. In fact you may have to do that for your current rocket to land.
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Rich James
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OK, that rocket doesn't work if you are using the GW thruster as your main thruster. Here are the elements of your thrust chain and what fulfills the support need (in parenthesis):

The GW thruster requires a || generator (Brayton Turbine) and 2 therms of cooling (Magentocalorie Refrigerator radiator).

Brayton Turbine e-|| generator requires 2 therms of cooling (Magentocalorie Refrigerator radiator) and a reactor (ET bomb reactor).

Magnetocalorie Refrigerator radiator on its heavy side requires an e generator (Brayton Turbine).

ET bomb reactor (can't tell what it is) needs an X reactor (???) and 3 therms of cooling (???).

Since you lack sufficient cooling and the X reactor, the thrust chain doesn't work. This is a pretty complex rocket. Since you are hand picking your supports, you can do much better to simplify the supports needed.

Quote:
Also look at this. Now when you're on a path and it dead ends in a T and you have to go one way or the other, do you have to spend 2 burns to proceed or not? I assume that if you COULD go straight down a path, and you instead turn off, that is 2 burns. If you look at above Kraken Mare where the path just turns into the line above that location, does THAT burn 2? I'm not clear on what constitutes a coast and what constitutes a burn. when you seem to maybe switch tracks.

If the path requires you to turn to move forward, you have to spend two burns (and 2 TMPs) if you want to continue moving during that turn. Or you can stop there and proceed without any burns spent on the next turn.

I would play that intersection near Kraken Mare as requiring a pivot to proceed, if traversing to or from the path that leads to Callisto.

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[...] every time I boost a card I get it decommissioned by an event it seems like so it's a lot easier to build up the rocket and then boost it all at once.

That's one reason Bernals are nice. Promote yours and you can boost cards to your bernal and they are not vulnerable to pad explosions and glitches.
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David Griffin
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Thanks I didn't see the X reactor req. Yes, I'm kind of afraid this game is just a bit over my complexity event horizon. Plus this solitaire thing has time limits that work against me and making mistakes which puts more pressure on me which makes it unfun. I'm not particularly good under high stress either.

Hmmm... Good thoughts though. It appears I was doing the fueling right. I didn't see that aspect of the GW thruster, thanks. I was trying to work my way toward the star on the back of that GW thruster which calls for factories on Saturn and Uranus (both S) which works well for regenerating the robonaut and the refinery but which detract from points such that I might not meet the 4th solar year board meeting anyway. Now I have to fix that reactor somehow.

I am using a robot colonist at the Bernal (I think he can work from anywhere) to give me another action. But he doesn't detract from my personnel limit so I can boost another colonist maybe to get a third action? That way I can maybe do stuff rapidly enough?

Let's talk about my generator. It's both a pulse and a e generator. Two cards need a pulse and 1 needs an e. Can't the one generator power all of them? I don't recall the rules saying you have to pick which one you are.

The big problems right now are the reactor and I'm short 1 therm of cooling right? Or else I have to not use the thruster (yet) and use something else.
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carbon_dragon wrote:
The hand limit is really annoying if you're trying to build up a supports rocket because you would have to keep boosting cards, which would be OK, but every time I boost a card I get it decommissioned by an event it seems like so it's a lot easier to build up the rocket and then boost it all at once.


You should really play through one of the PBF games to get a sense of what people do. Alternatively (or additionally) take a detailed read through the strategy sections of the reference manual. I feel like instead of helping yourself with the rule amendments you're making, what you've actually done is open up the game space so much that it's overwhelming.

1) There's no hand limit in solitaire. This is in rule V0b and applies to all solitaire variants unless otherwise stated.
2) You should be promoting your Bernal at first opportunity. Typically this only takes a generator. A promoted Bernal will protect co-located cards from pad explosions, so your boosted cards won't be vulnerable.
3) Rockets that you move around will be vulnerable to glitches unless you crew them, either with crew or colonists.
4) Your colonist in your Bernal could satisfy the reactor requirement of your Brayton Turbine generator.

carbon_dragon wrote:
I'm not clear on what constitutes a coast and what constitutes a burn. when you seem to maybe switch tracks.


* A burn is any colored-in circle (usually pink, but occasionally purple so they show up against a pink background.) It requires a number of fuel steps equal to your efficiency to enter a burn and in a single move you can only enter a total number of burns equal to the net thrust at the beginning of your move.
* You can change direction for free anywhere there is a circle at the intersection of two lines. This includes burns, though you have to use fuel to enter the burn.
* Coasting is moving along a free move path either without changing directions or only changing directions at open circles.
* Anytime you change direction--either at an intersection or at a place where the path makes a sharp, angled turn--it either takes 2 burns to pass through or you can alternatively stop your movement there and then start your movement in any direction at the beginning of your next turn.
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carbon_dragon wrote:
The +2 is from being in the tug class which says in the training manual also doubles fuel use?


This is referring to the fact that the at the right end of the fuel strip (after mass 23), it takes two tanks of fuel to give you one fuel step. It's not a feature of the tug class in particular.

carbon_dragon wrote:
Let's talk about my generator. It's both a pulse and a e generator. Two cards need a pulse and 1 needs an e. Can't the one generator power all of them? I don't recall the rules saying you have to pick which one you are.


Yes, it can satisfy all requirements for e and || generators.

carbon_dragon wrote:
The big problems right now are the reactor and I'm short 1 therm of cooling right?


It looks to me like you need 7 therms of cooling (2 for the thruster, 2 for the generator, and 3 for the reactor), but you only have 4.

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David Griffin
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Matt_W wrote:
carbon_dragon wrote:
The hand limit is really annoying if you're trying to build up a supports rocket because you would have to keep boosting cards, which would be OK, but every time I boost a card I get it decommissioned by an event it seems like so it's a lot easier to build up the rocket and then boost it all at once.


You should really play through one of the PBF games to get a sense of what people do. Alternatively (or additionally) take a detailed read through the strategy sections of the reference manual. I feel like instead of helping yourself with the rule amendments you're making, what you've actually done is open up the game space so much that it's overwhelming.

1) There's no hand limit in solitaire. This is in rule V0b and applies to all solitaire variants unless otherwise stated.
2) You should be promoting your Bernal at first opportunity. Typically this only takes a generator. A promoted Bernal will protect co-located cards from pad explosions, so your boosted cards won't be vulnerable.
3) Rockets that you move around will be vulnerable to glitches unless you crew them, either with crew or colonists.
4) Your colonist in your Bernal could satisfy the reactor requirement of your Brayton Turbine generator.

carbon_dragon wrote:
I'm not clear on what constitutes a coast and what constitutes a burn. when you seem to maybe switch tracks.


* A burn is any colored-in circle (usually pink, but occasionally purple so they show up against a pink background.) It requires a number of fuel steps equal to your efficiency to enter a burn and in a single move you can only enter a total number of burns equal to the net thrust at the beginning of your move.
* You can change direction for free anywhere there is a circle at the intersection of two lines. This includes burns, though you have to use fuel to enter the burn.
* Coasting is moving along a free move path either without changing directions or only changing directions at open circles.
* Anytime you change direction--either at an intersection or at a place where the path makes a sharp, angled turn--it either takes 2 burns to pass through or you can alternatively stop your movement there and then start your movement in any direction at the beginning of your next turn.


That robot colonist is a LONG way from where my rocket is at present, but still might be a good option.

The lack of understanding about burns concerned "joining" between two lines that wasn't a simple cross where I was changing direction. It was stuff like lines dead ending, gradually curving into other lines, and so forth. I suspect that might have some uncertainty among even steady players? I understand the sharp angled turns. THANKS a lot for the tip on the hand limit thing. I just can't remember everything, even though I've read it and the strategy guides several times. Keep the tips coming.
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Matt_W wrote:
carbon_dragon wrote:
The +2 is from being in the tug class which says in the training manual also doubles fuel use?


This is referring to the fact that the at the right end of the fuel strip (after mass 23), it takes two tanks of fuel to give you one fuel step. It's not a feature of the tug class in particular.

carbon_dragon wrote:
Let's talk about my generator. It's both a pulse and a e generator. Two cards need a pulse and 1 needs an e. Can't the one generator power all of them? I don't recall the rules saying you have to pick which one you are.


Yes, it can satisfy all requirements for e and || generators.

carbon_dragon wrote:
The big problems right now are the reactor and I'm short 1 therm of cooling right?


It looks to me like you need 7 therms of cooling (2 for the thruster, 2 for the generator, and 3 for the reactor), but you only have 4.



Right so if your burn takes a fractional amount, say 1/4 of a tank, if it's past 23 it's 1/2 a tank right? Right I'll look into the therms.

To paraphrase a famous line from Star Wars, the more I tighten my grip on the rules, the more rules slip through my fingers.
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