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Subject: Excess profits tax card in final round rss

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Rather Notsay
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What happens when one player declares victory, but another player on their final (equal) turn draws the excess profits tax card? Imagine this scenario: 2 player game. Player 1, who is connected to the required number of cities, makes a delivery which puts them just over $250M. They immediately declare victory, leaving only two cards in their hand. Player 2 takes their final turn, making a delivery, and in the process draws the excess profits tax card. Does the card apply, thereby knocking Player 1 below $250M and thus continuing the game? If so, what about the fact that Player 1 only has two cards? (I assume when Player 1 made their final delivery and declared victory, they did not have to draw another card; is that correct?)
 
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Rich Shipley
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A player declares victory at the end of their turn, which would be after drawing up to three cards. So in this case, this excess profits card would bring cash below 250 before the end of the turn and so a victory could not be declared at all.

In the case of an event card reducing cash or disconnecting cities after a player declares victory, that player's previously declared victory still counts.
 
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Kevin B. Smith
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I speak with no authority, but if I'm understanding the question and proposed answer, I think...

Player 1 would redraw to 3 cards, and then declare that the game is ending (they are technically not declaring "victory" at that point). This will be the final round.

Player 2 would take their turn, and if the tax card comes up, it would affect everyone, as normal.

When that final round ends, the game is over, even if by that point nobody has enough money to trigger the end. Whoever has the most money wins (and declares victory).
 
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Rich Shipley
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I just used the term "declare victory" because that is what is says on page seven in the latest version of the series rules I have. It allows for multiple players to "declare victory".

It is also pretty clear that only players who meet the criteria at the end of their turn are eligible to win. So if the second player did not meet the connection and cash requirements at the end of their turn, then they can't win, even if they have the most money at the end of the game.
 
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Kevin B. Smith
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rshipley wrote:
I just used the term "declare victory" because that is what is says on page seven in the latest version of the series rules I have. It allows for multiple players to "declare victory".

Ah, sorry. I don't have the EB rules. That's unfortunate terminology on their part.

Quote:
It is also pretty clear that only players who meet the criteria at the end of their turn are eligible to win. So if the second player did not meet the connection and cash requirements at the end of their turn, then they can't win, even if they have the most money at the end of the game.

But the pressing questions are:

1. If taxes knock everyone down below 250 (or whatever the threshold is), does the game still end? It seems that you and I agree that it does.

And 2. Who wins? Let's say player 1 had 255 at the end of her turn, and then player 2 only got to 240, hit taxes, and continued their turn. By the end of player 2's turn, when the round ends, player 1 has 200, and player 2 has 210. Who wins?

It sounds like you are saying that only players who had 250 at some point would be eligible to win. So I think you are saying player #1 would win, whereas I would have expected the answer to be #2 (without having read the rules recently).

A similar question would come up if player 2 instead hit a flood, which broke player 1's city connections. Does the game still end? If so, and if player 2 is fully connected and has more cash (but not enough to trigger then end), who wins?
 
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Rich Shipley
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From the series rules I have:

"If two or more players declare victory in the same round, the one with the most cash wins."

I take that to mean that you can't win if you are never able to declare victory (have the required connections and cash at the end of your turn).
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Kevin B. Smith
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The way it's written, I would agree with your interpretation. Even though I think it's silly that way.
 
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Tom B
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peakhope wrote:
rshipley wrote:
I just used the term "declare victory" because that is what is says on page seven in the latest version of the series rules I have. It allows for multiple players to "declare victory".

Ah, sorry. I don't have the EB rules. That's unfortunate terminology on their part.

Quote:
It is also pretty clear that only players who meet the criteria at the end of their turn are eligible to win. So if the second player did not meet the connection and cash requirements at the end of their turn, then they can't win, even if they have the most money at the end of the game.

But the pressing questions are:

1. If taxes knock everyone down below 250 (or whatever the threshold is), does the game still end? It seems that you and I agree that it does.

And 2. Who wins? Let's say player 1 had 255 at the end of her turn, and then player 2 only got to 240, hit taxes, and continued their turn. By the end of player 2's turn, when the round ends, player 1 has 200, and player 2 has 210. Who wins?

It sounds like you are saying that only players who had 250 at some point would be eligible to win. So I think you are saying player #1 would win, whereas I would have expected the answer to be #2 (without having read the rules recently).

A similar question would come up if player 2 instead hit a flood, which broke player 1's city connections. Does the game still end? If so, and if player 2 is fully connected and has more cash (but not enough to trigger then end), who wins?

As I remember it from Origins Puffing Billy tournaments:

1. Yes the game ends. If Player #1 has $255 and was connected at the end of his turn, including drawing to replace any cards he fulfulled that turn, then the game ends after the other players all have their turns, even if something happens to lower his money total or disconnect his cities.

2. Player #1 wins. Player #2 never had $250 or more at the end of his turn, so he can't win. Player #1 did have $255 at the end of his turn, so someone has to have more than his final total money (i.e. more than $255), and meet the connections requirements in order to beat him.

2a. Player #1 wins. The actions of another player after someone has met the victory conditions can't change the game ending or remove someones victory. The only way Player #1 can not win the game is if someone ends up with more money than him and is connected at the end of their turn.

I had the sad experience one year playing Iron Dragon of being the first person to reach $250 and be connected. Then coming in third overall 3 turns later with $257.
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