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Subject: Two base sets? rss

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Doug Marley
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Do you need two base sets to play two players?
 
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Kevin Fowle
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You don't need two if you want to learn how to play, and see if your gonna like it. If you find that you like it, you are gonna want two of them. that way you can have 4 decks made, two runner and two corp, so that you both can have one of each. I wouldn't recommend three unless you really get into competitive play. Even then you may not need three with such a large card pool.
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C&H Schmidt
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I have been playing Netrunner with my partner (joint collection) for almost two years now and we still only jointly own one core set.
Since one person plays the corp and the other the runner, you don't use the same cards at the same time.

The only reason to own a second one is if you want to get second or third copies of the cards that are only in the base set once, or have several complete decks built at the same time that contain the same cards, but you can just proxy extra cards you need -- i.e. make a little print-out and put that in front of a different card in a sleeve.

In my opinion, it is much better to buy some expansions first if you want more Netrunner after the core set.

TLDR: For beginners, one core set for two players is sufficient, and you may not ever want another one.
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Hedyn Brand
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Netrunner's system is pretty liberal with which cards you have access to. You theoretically have access to all runner/corp cards at once, only limited by influence (which varies a bit from out of the box if you play by tournament rules and the influence adjustments there).

The deck sizes are also smaller than you might be used to from similar games. With the core you'll be targeting 45+ cards, but expansions include identities with a 40-card minimum.

I think a second core isn't a bad expansion if you happen to like the game, but for variety you can't beat getting all the deluxe expansions. You'll have over three times as many cards per faction with all four boxes.

To get essential cards without having to buy two dozen data packs, the championship decks are also nice. A core and both previous decks (and/or the upcoming pair of decks) give you a taste of modern cards on the cheap.
 
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Michael Lewis
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isn't there a new core set coming out soon designed to reduce the need for 3 core sets?
 
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Brendan Riley
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Dracoprimus wrote:
isn't there a new core set coming out soon designed to reduce the need for 3 core sets?


This has never been more than a rumor, AFAK.

My advice for the OP, as someone who spent two years buying all the cards in the cardpool new, is to play the one core set for a while and see if you like it. If you feel like you like it, consider just buying the whole set from someone getting out of the game. You can probably get a full set for 1/2 retail, and then if you feel like going to a game night at a store or anything you have the cards to do so. You can even parcel them out for yourself slowly if you want, but it's such a big savings over buying the cards one pack at a time. Wish I'd done it that way.
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Derrick Billings
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wombat929 wrote:
Dracoprimus wrote:
isn't there a new core set coming out soon designed to reduce the need for 3 core sets?


This has never been more than a rumor, AFAIK.


Additionally, it is mathematically impossible for a core set to provide an adequate number of cards by title, provide three copies of each card, and come in at their designated $40 core set price point. FFG has never given any indication that reducing the need for multiple core sets is any concern of theirs.

So, we should expect any possible core set replacement (if it comes to pass) to follow the mode of Warhammer Conquest, AGOT 2nd Ed, and (seemingly) L5R, and be much more on the side of mostly 1x cards. At least that way if you have to buy multiple Core Sets you don't have the diminishing returns of the current Netrunner core set.
 
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Grimwalker wrote:
Additionally, it is mathematically impossible for a core set to provide an adequate number of cards by title...

Mr. Grimwalker:

I have read your statement about this topic on many forums, you are so active and pro FFG that you made me curious:
Are you working for FFG?
Do you want to work for FFG?

I think there are only 77 cards missing to make every card a triplicate.
Why do you think that adding another 77 cards would make the core set so much more expensive?
How much would that cost in your opinion?

I am guessing an extra 0.10$ production cost more in total?
Maybe 1$ more (that is the very high max that I am guessing)?

I highly doubt that it would cost them more than 0.001$ to produce one card. The box is large enough and the cards light enough, that it wouldn't make a difference with shipping, distribution, retail etc..

The expensive stuff (card design, artwork, game balance etc.) has been done already, there is absolutely no need to remove those cards except of course of the fact to make fans buy more core sets, gift it to their friends and if they don't like it, the buyer still can use and enjoy the content of the box, which is a really nice marketing strategy.
 
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Clyde W
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AFAIK Derrick does work for FFG.
 
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Iori Yagami
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How is this expensive if it looks cheap? Gawd, FFG has always been cheap component wise. Too dark and thin cards, glossy oily finish (ugh!), toilet paper inserts, blurry plastic molds. The only solid thing is artwork and design, but that's not quite physical production, also it is done by subcontractors.
The reason is EXACTLY to cash in on those rare people who want it ALL, NOW! This is legal, so why not? Commerce has always been cunning like that. No cunning, no ca$h?
 
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Brendan Riley
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Mark Ban wrote:
I highly doubt that it would cost them more than 0.001$ to produce one card. The box is large enough and the cards light enough, that it wouldn't make a difference with shipping, distribution, retail etc..


For a small print run game, cards cost $.05 to $.06 each. I know this because I've priced cards.

Even at high volume, printed overseas, they will cost at least $.02 or $.03 per card. So 70 cards is $1.40 at least, which means $7 higher on the final price tag.
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Derrick Billings
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No, I don't work for FFG. I was a volunteer playtester for Netrunner and, more recently, AGOT 2nd edition. I don't have authoritative knowledge, I have just *done the math,* particularly when I was working on the latter.

You can put X cards, physical pieces of cardboard, into a box. If you go over X, you have to charge more money (the number of cards they are putting into sets at $30 and $40 price points has actually declined over the years.) Your number of cards by title is, at most, X, but practically speaking you almost always have some duplicates. What you don't want is (X/3) or even (X/2) cards by title because then you're impoverishing the card pool variety.

Anyone who doesn't believe me is more than welcome to actually go through the card list of the existing core set: what cards would you cut out entirely in order to raise the total copies of all remaining cards to 3x?

What do those starting decks then look like?

How many cards by title are you then left with?

Balancing how many cards actually should be in a set is hard, yo.

I bang the drum on this topic because I think having reasonable expectations increases customer satisfaction, and I'm so very tired of naïve players who think they can get the moon and sixpence and then crying foul when they think the company is ripping them off.

People have been imagining for four years now that FFG should put out a Completion Pack containing 1x Datasucker, 2x Ice Carver, 1x Rabbit Hole, 2x Aesop's Pawnshop, etc. etc. But it's not at all cost effective for the company to produce that kind of product, because it's redundant to the existing product which already contains all those cards: the core set itself. For every one of those they sell, they sell one, often two, fewer Core Sets. It just doesn't make sense for them to incur the expense of producing an additional set which can only cannibalize sales of the central product.

What starts off as wishful thinking gets turned into expectation which turns into disappointment which turns into negativity which materially hurts the game. I love the game fiercely, and I don't want to see people criticizing it for bad reasons, not when there are so many reasonable areas where there's room for criticism. But, generally speaking other people tend to cover the legit criticisms better than I could so I wind up chiming in to push back against the non-legitimate criticisms, so that tends to give the opinion I'm an apologist for the company. Oh well.
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Derrick Billings
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Mark Ban wrote:
I think there are only 77 cards missing to make every card a triplicate.
Why do you think that adding another 77 cards would make the core set so much more expensive?
How much would that cost in your opinion?


I don't have any idea how much additional it would cost. But I can assume that we're getting the most bang for the buck that $40 can produce (because what we've been getting for that has been on a downward trend over the years) and that margins on core sets are probably lower than Data Packs.

Going up to a higher price point invariably leads to decreased demand. Maybe if they went up to $50 or $60--well, certainly so--they could put more product in the box. But then they'd sell fewer units.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_point

Quote:
I am guessing an extra 0.10$ production cost more in total?
Maybe 1$ more (that is the very high max that I am guessing)?

I highly doubt that it would cost them more than 0.001$ to produce one card. The box is large enough and the cards light enough, that it wouldn't make a difference with shipping, distribution, retail etc.


I am not convinced by your guesses. Like I said, when I worked on the Core Set for AGOT as a volunteer playtester, there was discussion of how many copies of each card there should be. Given that the total card count was a constraint, and needing to provide a variety of cards, made providing anywhere near a full playset of most cards impossible.

Like I said, go through the Netrunner core set and (without increasing the number of cards in the box) see what you can put together if you make everything 3x, and post the result.
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