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Subject: June '17 US Math Trade Discussion Thread rss

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William Leslie
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This is a US shipping math trade. To participate you must be able to receive at a US address. If you are shipping from outside the US, you must explicitly disclose this.


DATES
Deadline to submit offers: Tuesday, June 20th, 12:30 AM Pacific
Deadline to submit wants: Sunday, June 25th, 12:30 AM Pacific
**Please note the AM deadlines.**


Shipping: Should you not specify any shipping conditions, you bear the full shipping cost to any US address. You may not list any shipping conditions that pertain to the contiguous 48 states. Item's that you'll be sending via USPS flat rate or 1st class ship for the same amount to all 50 states. The less you restrict your shipping, the more potential you have that it will trade. That is all that will be said about the matter. cool

Geeklist: https://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/226196/june-17-us-math-tr...
Wishlist: https://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/226197/june-17-us-mat...

MATH TRADE RULES AND GUIDELINES:

OLWLG REQUIRED
1. Use of the On-Line Want List Generator (OLWLG) is required for this math trade. (http://bgg.activityclub.org/olwlg/) Please get comfortable with it before the end of the trade. If you have questions, I suggest you post them in the discussion thread (link above). Myself or other users are happy to help you. There are several useful links to help you learn how to use the OLWLG at the bottom of this post.

ITEMS ALLOWED
2. Board and card games, BGG-related items, RPG items, video games, cash equivalent items (gift certificates, PayPal, etc.), and Geek Gold are allowed in this math trade. Cash equivalent items will need to be entered in the marketplace so BGG can collect their 3% commission for sales. Click here for more information on these Guidelines.

ARBITRAGE
3. Absolutely no GC/GG arbitrage, meaning you may not trade any gift card or GG lot for one of greater value. I will allow you to trade GC's for equal or lesser valued GC's. Remember, if you intend to trade for cash equivalents, you must pay BGG a 3% commission. (See Guidelines link in rule #2, above)

***NEW***: You may not both simultaneously buy GG for cash equivalents and sell GG for cash equivalents in the same trade. Meaning if you intend to offer GG and request CE's for those listings, you may not also offer CE's and request GG, or vice versa. You may either be a buyer or seller, but not both during the same trade. This does not apply to any transaction where an actual game is being traded, strictly GG for CE and CE for GG transactions.

ITEM DESCRIPTION
4. You must describe, as accurately as possible, the condition of the components and box, the language, and edition of your item and any sweeteners. You must inventory the game's components and list anything missing and/or damaged. If you do not, the game is expected to be complete, in like-new condition and be the most recent English edition.

5. Add sweeteners by typing the name of the game into the "board game" box of drop down menu so they properly display in the OLWLG.

6. Do not use a item type listing for an item unless you are offering that item, this also applies to listings using hyperlinks in the description. For example, do not list the item as the game if you're only offering certain components for that game. When in doubt, use "outside the scope of BGG" as the main listing.

7. Items may be edited after listing, however items may not be downgraded after the initial listing.

8. If you wish to remove an item for consideration OR need to in any way reduce an item's perceived value from the original listing (different edition, indicate a lesser condition, remove sweeteners, etc.), DELETE the item. The OLWLG handles this just fine (See #9, below). Then, relist the item correctly.

9. Subscribe to any and all items you are interested in, rather than writing down the number. If you write down the number and an item gets removed, the number will change.

PARTICIPANT OBLIGATIONS
10. Please subscribe to all of your listings and publicly acknowledge all questions. The OLWLG will let you know if any of your items have unanswered comments.

11. It is customary to enter all trades into the BGG trading system. This is most easily done if the items you are trading are listed in your collection and are marked as "For Trade". Please endeavor to do so and to leave feedback once the trade is completed. Under most circumstances, positive feedback should be given for the empty half of the math trade.

12. PLEASE BE AWARE THAT ENTERING INTO THIS MATH TRADE IS A COMMITMENT TO TRADE THE ITEMS THAT YOU ARE INDICATING YOU ARE WILLING TO TRADE FOR YOUR WANTED ITEMS. IT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO DOUBLE CHECK DUPLICATE PROTECTION AND CHECK BOXES. IF YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO TRADE ONE OF YOUR ITEMS FOR ANOTHER ITEM, DO NOT INCLUDE IT IN YOUR WANTLIST. THE RESULTS, ONCE POSTED, ARE BINDING.

MODERATOR RESPONSIBILITY
13. Only errors by the moderator will invalidate the results. In the case that there is a problem after the results are posted, at most it will only invalidate the affected trade chain(s) and not the entire results set. In addition if the problem can be resolved by the most directly affected party or parties, then that is perfectly acceptable.

14. Decisions to anything that comes up regarding this math trade are decided by me. If you do not agree to me making such decisions, then don't participate in the math trade.


A general note:

While > 99% of the time trades go through smoothly, you are dealing with humans. Humans let other humans down and sometimes take advantage of them. Humans also sometimes make mistakes. If you are not ready to accept this fact, I suggest you refrain from entering this trade.

Please remember, every green check mark in the OLWLG means you are agreeing to make that trade. Once you submit your wants and the window to resubmit closes, you've agreed to those trades, and are expected to honor them, even in the event of a mistake.

I am running this trade because math trades are fun, exciting, and just plain awesome. Most of my collection has come from math trades. I am donating my time both for selfish reasons (to make trades) and out of gratitude to those that moderated the dozens of trades that I have enjoyed participate in. I am under no obligation to make everyone happy, nor will I try. Should you not like me or the way I run this trade, please refrain from entering.

HELPFUL LINKS
Math_Trades - If you're new to math trades, follow this link to learn the ropes.
Math Trades for Dummies - Another good intro.
OLWLG - Read here for help using the On-Line Want List Generator to submit your want list.
Math Trade Video Tutorials - Tutorial videos
Rahdo Runs Through Math Trades video - covers all aspects of math trades

Post here if you have any questions. Math trades might look a bit complicated at first, but they're really easy once you get the hang of them.

Good luck and happy trading!



TECHNICAL INFORMATION
JeffyJeff's TradeMaximizer version 1.5c
ITERATIONS=50
SEED=20170625
METRIC=users-trading

%Options%
Deadline-Offers: Tuesday, June 20th, 2017, 12:30 AM PDT
Deadline-Wants: Sunday, June 25th, 2017, 12:30 AM PDT
%End%
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Matt D
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Hey William, FYI the second link to the discussion thread in the header ("make sure to drop by...") hasn't been updated from the San Diego MT discussion thread.
 
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mike paul
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Thank you so much for running these trades. I'm sure I am not the only one who was checking for a new 'red subscription alert' in hopes for the next month's US math trade.

My two cents, would be to shorten the submission times. The three week run time takes it almost to July, and I get itchy after about a week.

Again, super glad you are running this, just wanted to toss my hat into the shorter math trade camp.
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Chris Breymeyer
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eimative wrote:
Thank you so much for running these trades. I'm sure I am not the only one who was checking for a new 'red subscription alert' in hopes for the next month's US math trade.

My two cents, would be to shorten the submission times. The three week run time takes it almost to July, and I get itchy after about a week.

Again, super glad you are running this, just wanted to toss my hat into the shorter math trade camp.


Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I believe that this trade's dates are so lengthy because the organizers don't want to conflict woth the "High and Mighty" math trade, which is running at the same time.
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William Leslie
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breyfunk wrote:
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I believe that this trade's dates are so lengthy because the organizers don't want to conflict woth the "High and Mighty" math trade, which is running at the same time.

That's correct.
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Robert Dabicci
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For some reason this trade is showing up under the no-ship trade list on OLWLG.
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Matt D
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rdabicci wrote:
For some reason this trade is showing up under the no-ship trade list on OLWLG.


It always gets added by default as a "no ship" trade. The moderator has to go in after it is added manually by JeffyJeff (which could take minutes, hours, or once a few days) to edit the options including that one.

So usually it sits at no ship until the first resync. No reason for the mod to sit and hover over F5 waiting on JeffyJeff.
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Brandon M
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hestiansun wrote:
...or once a few days...


I remember that.

*shudder*
 
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Jeff Moore
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This is my first Math Trade and I am pretty enthusiastic about the whole idea. I do have a question. I just received a private message making me an offer for one of the games that I have added to the math trade. The offer is a good one and I want to take it, but I have a question regarding protocol.

Is this sort of thing normal and expected?

Do I edit my entry to add that the item is no longer available and then when editing my want list simply make sure that none of the games I want have a check mark in the column for the game that is now no longer available?

Or do I tell the person in question that I have to wait until the math trade is over and then if the game is still available that I will accept his offer then?

Or is there something else that I need to do?

Thanks!

Jeff
 
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William Leslie
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You can just delete your item.
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John James
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erusnine wrote:
This is my first Math Trade and I am pretty enthusiastic about the whole idea. I do have a question. I just received a private message making me an offer for one of the games that I have added to the math trade. The offer is a good one and I want to take it, but I have a question regarding protocol.

Is this sort of thing normal and expected?

Do I edit my entry to add that the item is no longer available and then when editing my want list simply make sure that none of the games I want have a check mark in the column for the game that is now no longer available?

Or do I tell the person in question that I have to wait until the math trade is over and then if the game is still available that I will accept his offer then?

Or is there something else that I need to do?

Thanks!

Jeff

Some people frown upon 'poaching' from MT's, but the fault there would lie with the the other whoever that is asking to trade. Anyways, it's your game you can do what you want with it. You can edit the listing, delete it or just not submit any 'wants' for it.
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Jeff Moore
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Thanks for your responses, but it does raise a question. In the tutorials about MT's I was lead to believe that deleting a listing was a gigantic "never ever do this" because of the way the entries are seeded by number and how deleting an entry would mess this seeding up for every entry that comes after it. Is this an old problem that has since been resolved? Both of your answers recommend deleting my entry.
 
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Jason Monroe
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erusnine wrote:
Thanks for your responses, but it does raise a question. In the tutorials about MT's I was lead to believe that deleting a listing was a gigantic "never ever do this" because of the way the entries are seeded by number and how deleting an entry would mess this seeding up for every entry that comes after it. Is this an old problem that has since been resolved? Both of your answers recommend deleting my entry.


Yes, tutorial is outdated in that respect.

You may delete entries and not worry about breaking anything
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Brandon M
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erusnine wrote:
Thanks for your responses, but it does raise a question. In the tutorials about MT's I was lead to believe that deleting a listing was a gigantic "never ever do this" because of the way the entries are seeded by number and how deleting an entry would mess this seeding up for every entry that comes after it. Is this an old problem that has since been resolved? Both of your answers recommend deleting my entry.


Items in geeklists are numbered 1,2,3,4, etc. These numbers will change when an item is deleted.

BUT each geeklist item has a unique item number generated by BGG when it is created, this is unchanging, no matter how many changes occur on the geeklist. It is this item number the the OLWLG works off of.

If you click on the number visible in the geeklist (1, 2, 3, 4, etc), the page will reload centered on the geeklist item and you will see the address has changed to point to a specific geeklistitem#.
 
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biff pow
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erusnine wrote:
This is my first Math Trade and I am pretty enthusiastic about the whole idea. I do have a question. I just received a private message making me an offer for one of the games that I have added to the math trade. The offer is a good one and I want to take it, but I have a question regarding protocol.

Is this sort of thing normal and expected?


First: hi Jeff--welcome to math trades : ) They're lots of fun.

Second: No, it's not normal or expected. It's unusual. Not bad, just unusual.

Third: You may not need to be told this, but you might find it helpful to compare the offer you received to what the game is being offered for in the BGG marketplace (you can see this on the game's page). For example, Asking for Trobils (if that's the game in question) is not being offered by a US address, so the game's "value" would be those offer prices plus the cost of international shipping (if you care about determining "value" in dollars).

Of course, value is arbitrary, so as long as you're happy afterwards, it's a great trade/sale.

Enjoy and have fun!
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Matt Crawford
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This Math Trade Geeklist shows up in the Hot Geeklists. I don't think I've ever seen a math trade geeklist there. Is there some way you're supposed to tag the geeklist so that it doesn't show up as hot? Or am I completely off base, and the math trade geeklists always show up as hot, and I just never noticed?
 
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Adrian George
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There use to be a check box that you'd select, I haven't started a geeklist in ages though so I don't know if that's still the case.
 
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Mike Weimholt
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Doomsword wrote:
erusnine wrote:
This is my first Math Trade and I am pretty enthusiastic about the whole idea. I do have a question. I just received a private message making me an offer for one of the games that I have added to the math trade. The offer is a good one and I want to take it, but I have a question regarding protocol.

Is this sort of thing normal and expected?

Do I edit my entry to add that the item is no longer available and then when editing my want list simply make sure that none of the games I want have a check mark in the column for the game that is now no longer available?

Or do I tell the person in question that I have to wait until the math trade is over and then if the game is still available that I will accept his offer then?

Or is there something else that I need to do?

Thanks!

Jeff

Some people frown upon 'poaching' from MT's, but the fault there would lie with the the other whoever that is asking to trade. Anyways, it's your game you can do what you want with it. You can edit the listing, delete it or just not submit any 'wants' for it.


I bolded the part I think is relevant. IMO, nobody has the right to tell you what to do with your own game. Just because you've submitted it to a math trade geeklist doesn't change that (edit: unless the wants submission deadline has passed and you submitted a non-empty wants list for that item). You don't owe anybody anything. Just accept the offer and submit a blank wantlist for that item, or delete the item from the geeklist entirely.

There may be people who consider this bad math trade etiquette, but if so I'd guess that they're in the minority on that point. As far as I've seen, there's no generally-accepted rule against selling/trading items you listed in the MT outside of the MT. I frequently list items in math trades that I also have listed in the GeekMarket, or on the San Diego local trade/sell list, etc.

The bottom line is, you haven't committed to ANYTHING up until the final wants submission deadline. Once that final deadline arrives, if you've submitted a non-empty want list for an item, you are committed to trading it, and failure to do so (assuming the MT software generated a trade for that item) would be a grievous violation of MT etiquette, since at that point you are potentially invalidating dozens of trades by refusing to trade the item. However, even one minute prior to the deadline, you are still free to submit a new want list (including an empty want list) for any/all of your items.
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Ben McClellan
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Doomsword wrote:
Some people frown upon 'poaching' from MT's


Why? Assuming the trader deletes the item, or submits a blank want list, why is this a negative thing?

I've seen this mentioned several times previously and while I've never done it, I certainly don't see the reason people get so upset about it.

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John James
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jimmythesaint wrote:
Doomsword wrote:
Some people frown upon 'poaching' from MT's


Why? Assuming the trader deletes the item, or submits a blank want list, why is this a negative thing?

I've seen this mentioned several times previously and while I've never done it, I certainly don't see the reason people get so upset about it.


I imagine it's because your wasting everyone else's time who expects it to be available for trade in the MT. But, what you don't know won't hurt you (in this case).
 
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Ted Marshall
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Doomsword wrote:
jimmythesaint wrote:
Doomsword wrote:
Some people frown upon 'poaching' from MT's


Why? Assuming the trader deletes the item, or submits a blank want list, why is this a negative thing?

I've seen this mentioned several times previously and while I've never done it, I certainly don't see the reason people get so upset about it.


I imagine it's because your wasting everyone else's time who expects it to be available for trade in the MT. But, what you don't know won't hurt you (in this case).

But this is something that I want to emphasize for the new users here. Until the trade closes and you end up in a trade, you have no obligation to keep an item in the trade. You are free to sell or trade it outside the MT. You may simply not see anything in the MT that you want for it so you submit a blank want for it. Just because you list an item in the MT, you are not obliged to try to trade it there.
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Mike Weimholt
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Doomsword wrote:
I imagine it's because your wasting everyone else's time who expects it to be available for trade in the MT.


That argument is a non-starter for me. I spend just as much time as anyone managing my wants, certainly more than average. I'm constantly checking and re-checking, fine-tuning, and re-submitting. It's not rare for me to resubmit my wants 12 or 15 times in a single math trade. So I have as much to lose (in terms of wasted time) as anyone. But I certainly don't have any expectation that every single item listed in the GeekList will actually be available for trade when the submissions deadline arrives.

For one thing, many math trades never even reach 100% of users having submitted wants. If you hit 90%, it's a success. So am I supposed to be upset that 10% of users didn't submit wants? No. Maybe they just didn't see anything worth trading for, or maybe their kid got sick, or things got busy at work, etc. That would be an awful lot of people to be angry at, and for no good reason.

And if they submit a blank want list for an item because they got a better offer somewhere else, then so what? Good for them! That's not a bad thing at all, in fact quite the opposite, because it's an indication of how much this hobby is thriving. And more generally, if you get a better offer for your game than what I am willing to trade for it, then who the heck am I to stand in the way of that?

In fact, I think it would be very petty to think that spending 30 seconds reading an item description and clicking a few checkboxes somehow entitles you to any sort of guarantee that the owner of that item will submit a non-blank wants list for it.

In any case, I suspect this conversation is entirely (or at least mostly) academic. I doubt that there really are that many users who actually would take offense at someone removing an item. We're hypothesizing about why someone might be upset, but has anyone actually witnessed a MT participant freak out over a taken down item?
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Ben McClellan
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mweimholt wrote:

In any case, I suspect this conversation is entirely (or at least mostly) academic. I doubt that there really are that many users who actually would take offense at someone removing an item. We're hypothesizing about why someone might be upset, but has anyone actually witnessed a MT participant freak out over a taken down item?


Without calling anyone out specifically, yeah I've seen a few users get pretty upset over just the idea of it happening. Never understood why - figured maybe it was just one of those unwritten BGG rules or something.

 
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Andrew Croftcheck
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So, I've done a handful of math trades, but have come upon an issue that I'm not sure about. I have a couple of digital editions of video games I'd like to add into the Math Trade (having seen that they're acceptable). How do I go about doing so? I can't find where to add them to my BGG collection, which seems to be what OLWLG draws from... Any help is appreciated!
 
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Jeff Moore
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If the games aren't showing up in the drop downs when you try to add them, use: Outside the Scope of BGG.

I'm new myself, but I found the Rhado Runs Through videos to be very helpful. There are four of them and they aren't too long and they were definitely "must see TV" for me.
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