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Gloom of Kilforth: A Fantasy Quest Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: Rules (initially) Overlooked during first game rss

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Paul Cockburn
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Having carefully studied the rule book before starting, I still managed to discover (or belatedly remember) certain key rules only as I went along.

* When you lose a Health Point you also immediately lose an Action Point
Tip: Place any lost HP token on top of a still-to-be-spent AP (if none, on top of an already-spent AP). Such AP/HP combinations are set aside as unavailable until health is regained. (And if you do regain health you still don't regain the AP until the breaking of camp next day.)

* There is a big difference between Rumours and Assets
(Playing solo, all my cards were on the table, not physically in my hand, so I didn't appreciate the difference between a card in hand and a card in the play area.)
For example, Rumours can be discarded from hand to gain extra success in a Test, or for their keyword when Regaling the chapter of your saga. Whereas during a Regale action Assets (in your play area) can contribute a keyword without being discarded.
Tip for solo players: Have two different areas on the table, one for 'in hand' and one for 'in play'. Each area can only contain 6 cards, and there can be no duplication of unique keywords (preceded by an asterisk) among your Assets. (see "Action: Discover")

* Deeds on cards only become available to you when the card is an Asset
You have to put the card in your play area (via the Discover action when at the right location or via a Market action) before you can use its effects.

* Fate is limited to once per day
If you are two successes short on a test, you cannot discard two rumours or fate tokens to make up the shortfall.

* When you move into a new location, check any card present to see if it is an encounter card. If not, add one to the location.
Some locations may have cards from e.g. the Night deck. When you arrive in a non-empty location, look at the back of the card. If it is not a Badlands, Forest, Mountain or Plains card, then draw an encounter.
edited: On page 26 an Encounter is defined as "a card in a location, drawn from that location's encounter deck." On page 23, step 2 includes "Enemy, Place, Quest, Stranger: Place this encounter in play..." (italics mine). I'm pretty sure a Plot card is not an encounter though. Maybe there are other non-encounter cards too. The point is that it's not only empty locations which trigger encounters, it's any location without an existing encounter.
Also, note that a 'relocation' (using a loot token) does not count as a move and therefore does not require an encounter card to be revealed.

* Plot cards can become Rumours
A defeated Plot is taken into hand, not discarded.

* A Fight Test is not the same as a Battle
e.g. the Martial 'Prizefighter' ability can't be used in Battle, only when Testing (e.g. during a Confront action)

edited: In the Skirmish phase of a Battle the hero and the foe each resolve a 'fight test'. So the Prizefighter ability can be used.

* You need a Study Value of at least 3 to use Spells
According to the Requirements (page 24) a spell asset can only be used if your Study Value is equal to or greater than the spell's Study Value. A quick shufty at the Spell Deck reveals that this is in the range 3-5.

- - -
(later discoveries added via edit...)

* When you clear an obstacle or clear a plot you draw a loot token
I'd totally overlooked this benefit in my first two games.

* Failing your first Influence Test against a Stranger makes him your Enemy
When using the Confront Action to encounter a Stranger, if you get no successes on your first attempt then the Stranger instantly becomes an Enemy and you must immediately Engage him/her in battle. After initiating a Confront Action (and paying your AP), you also have the option of turning it immediately into an Engagement by voluntarily placing an Enemy token on the Stranger.

* If you have a high enough Sneak Value, you can avoid enemies without rolling dice.
If you are hidden when you meet an enemy and your Sneak Value is higher than the enemy's Sneak Value you don't need to conduct a test. You can simply go about your business as if the enemy wasn't there. (There's a lot you can do whilst remaining hidden - Clear, Rest, Discover, Regale, Confront Places or Quests etc.) It's only when your Sneak Values are equal that you need to roll (and hope for all successes or all-but-one plus a 'fate' success.)

* You can't Assault an Ancient until you have first removed any encounters
When you move into the Ancient's location, unless an encounter (Enemy/Stranger/Place/Quest) is already there you must draw one. Then you must fight or confront it (even if it a harmless one you would normally just ignore) before you can battle the Ancient. If defeating the Ancient takes more than one Assault you will have to move in and remove an encounter all over again. [wrong. see next point] (Ways to avoid an encounter: be lucky enough to draw an Event instead / arrive at the location via a 'relocate' loot token)

* Once a hero has engaged an Ancient (via the 'assault' deed) the hero cannot escape
The engagement is a fight to the death. Either the Ancient dies or the hero dies. I wrongly assumed that you could break off the engagement, rest a little and come back again. This assumption was based on the Ancient's ability to heal overnight. What would be the point of that (I thought) if it was a fight to the death? I now realise that I had forgotten the game can be multiplayer. One hero may die, but the weakened (and gradually recovering) Ancient can be assaulted by other heroes.

* Hidden heroes cannot perform Deeds
I've not yet used the hide action much, but this is not something I was aware of until it was mentioned in another thread.
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Carl White
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Useful stuff. I'm slowly working through my first game, and had missed a few of these from the rulebook, only working them out through play.

And I hadn't realised the Encounter/ Night card point. Thanks!
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Tristan Hall
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Excellent breakdown Paul, thanks for typing this up.
Just a couple of notes:

Quote:
* A Fight Test is not the same as a Battle
e.g. the Martial 'Prizefighter' ability can't be used in Battle, only when Testing (e.g. during a Confront action)


'Prizefighter' ability can still be used in Battle as the hero and foe are technically making a Fight Test against each other (p.19, "1. Skirmish: the hero and the foe each separately
resolve a Fight Test").

Quote:
* When you move into a new location, check any card present to see if it is an encounter card. If not, add one to the location.
Some locations may have cards from e.g. the Night deck. When you arrive in a non-empty location, look at the back of the card. If it is not a Badlands, Forest, Mountain or Plains card, then draw an encounter.


Night encounters are still encounters, so you don't draw an additional encounter if there is a Night encounter already there. (p.23, "Enemy, Place, Quest, Stranger: Place this encounter in play on the location named on the card.")

Thanks again Paul, this is going to be really useful for helping to put together a FAQ.
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Alan How
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I might have missed this but when plot cards come into play are they brought in face up on the location or remain face down until a hero visits that location?
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Roger Dumas
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Alan How wrote:
I might have missed this but when plot cards come into play are they brought in face up on the location or remain face down until a hero visits that location?


I believe that they come in face up. I did not find anything in the instructions to indicate that the plot cards (or any of the other cards that get put on locations for that matter) come in upside down. I would think that if the plots were suppose to be upside down until a hero visited the location it would be directly stated on the break out of the night actions rules which only state.

Rule Book Pg23 wrote:
Plot: When a particular location type falls into gloom
the Ancient will bring a plot card into play, as
detailed on the Ancient’s card. This happens after
the Night card is fully resolved.

Example: When a Badlands location falls into gloom
the Abbess of Penance places a random plot card on
that location.


But even though the instructions don't state that you flip them upside down when they come in, it might be an interesting variant to try out some time. I would think it would make things harder doing it that way though.

I did read another post on here though (sorry, don't remember which one it was but I am sure you will find it if you just look through the forum posts for the last day or so) that was talking about a good way to be sure you did not forget to put a plot card on a location during the night step would be to shuffle up the plot cards for the Ancient and then without looking at them put one under each location that would trigger the plot card to be put out. Then when that location is turned to gloom you will already have a card under it and then flip it up at that time. Again, this is not in the rule book, but kind of a cool way to make sure you get the plot cards out when they are suppose to be out.
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Alan How
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That was my thought exactly.

If the plot cards come into play face down it makes the game much more difficult because you don't know how to resolve the plot cards. I suspect this is not what was intended but might make a more challenging alternative.
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Tristan Hall
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Alan How wrote:
That was my thought exactly.

If the plot cards come into play face down it makes the game much more difficult because you don't know how to resolve the plot cards. I suspect this is not what was intended but might make a more challenging alternative.


Plots come in face-up, but yeah, I do like the idea of them coming in face-down as a variant. Will definitely make the game harder though.
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Al Cott
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mathmethman wrote:
Each area can only contain 6 cards, and there can be no duplication of unique keywords (preceded by an asterisk) among your Assets. (see "Action: Discover")

Thanks for this. I logged on here looking for the meaning of the asterisk in front of some keywords.

I understood the rule about not having duplicated unique keywords as assets, but didn't see a mention in the rules that this was how unique keywords are marked on the card. Page 8 caused confusion by the Gypsy card shown having an asterisk next to the 'Villain' keyword, and the Inner Strength card _not_ having an asterisk next to the 'Aid' keyword.
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Tristan Hall
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Lumpy75 wrote:
mathmethman wrote:
Each area can only contain 6 cards, and there can be no duplication of unique keywords (preceded by an asterisk) among your Assets. (see "Action: Discover")

Thanks for this. I logged on here looking for the meaning of the asterisk in front of some keywords.

I understood the rule about not having duplicated unique keywords as assets, but didn't see a mention in the rules that this was how unique keywords are marked on the card. Page 8 caused confusion by the Gypsy card shown having an asterisk next to the 'Villain' keyword, and the Inner Strength card _not_ having an asterisk next to the 'Aid' keyword.


But Inner Strength does have an asterisk next to the Aid keyword, Al.
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Al Cott
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Sorry... the perils of writing a long rambling sentence! I meant in the picture of the card on page 8. Aid doesn't have an asterisk there (although the card itself does).
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Tristan Hall
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Lumpy75 wrote:
Sorry... the perils of writing a long rambling sentence! I meant in the picture of the card on page 8. Aid doesn't have an asterisk there (although the card itself does).


Ack, well that is annoying! angry
Good spot, Al.
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Jacob Schoberg
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mathmethman wrote:

* When you lose a Health Point you also immediately lose an Action Point
Tip: Place any lost HP token on top of a still-to-be-spent AP (if none, on top of an already-spent AP). Such AP/HP combinations are set aside as unavailable until health is regained. (And if you do regain health you still don't regain the AP until the breaking of camp next day.)


Where is this in the rulebook? I found it under the section about losing HP in battle, but I couldn't find any mention of losing HP out of battle and how that relates to AP. I was going to just infer that it meant any time you lost HP you lost AP, but the 'break camp' sequence suggests that we gain AP tokens equal to our current HP, which doesn't really imply that losing HP means you lose those tokens.

The HP loss in question was in resolution of a plot for the Abbess.

mathmethman wrote:

* When you move into a new location, check any card present to see if it is an encounter card. If not, add one to the location.
Some locations may have cards from e.g. the Night deck. When you arrive in a non-empty location, look at the back of the card. If it is not a Badlands, Forest, Mountain or Plains card, then draw an encounter.
edited: On page 26 an Encounter is defined as "a card in a location, drawn from that location's encounter deck." On page 23, step 2 includes "Enemy, Place, Quest, Stranger: Place this encounter in play..." (italics mine). I'm pretty sure a Plot card is not an encounter though. Maybe there are other non-encounter cards too. The point is that it's not only empty locations which trigger encounters, it's any location without an existing encounter.
Also, note that a 'relocation' (using a loot token) does not count as a move and therefore does not require an encounter card to be revealed.


The wording in the summary under move, "if this location is empty, draw an encounter card" is pretty misleading if the Ancient or Plot cards do not count towards it being 'empty'.
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Paul Cockburn
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emodiu5 wrote:
mathmethman wrote:

* When you lose a Health Point you also immediately lose an Action Point


Where is this in the rulebook? I found it under the section about losing HP in battle, but I couldn't find any mention of losing HP out of battle and how that relates to AP. I was going to just infer that it meant any time you lost HP you lost AP, but the 'break camp' sequence suggests that we gain AP tokens equal to our current HP, which doesn't really imply that losing HP means you lose those tokens.

The HP loss in question was in resolution of a plot for the Abbess.


You're right. The AP loss is only mentioned (I think) in the Battle section. I had assumed it applied to any loss of the hero's HP. Thematically taking a wound of any sort means you are not able to accomplish as much for the remainder of the day. (And waking up wounded means you are limited in your actions from the get-go.)

Clarification please, Tristan! Does the AP loss apply to any HP loss?

I'm not quite sure I understand your point about the implications of breaking camp. Here's the way I've been playing it:
Start the day with 4 HP and 4 AP. Move (1 AP gone). Confront Stranger (another AP gone), which turns into an engagement during which I lose 2 HP and the 2 remaining AP. I have no AP left and must make camp. Next day I begin with 2 HP and 2 AP and decide to use both AP to rest and heal to full strength.
If the engagement resulted in only 1 HP (and 1 AP) lost I would still have 1 AP to spend on resting and be back to 4 HP.
If the engagement resulted in 3 HP lost then I would simply lose both remaining AP. But the next day I would begin with 1HP and 1AP, which is kind of like having lost a third 'already spent' AP.

emodiu5 wrote:

mathmethman wrote:

* When you move into a new location, check any card present to see if it is an encounter card. If not, add one to the location.

The wording in the summary under move, "if this location is empty, draw an encounter card" is pretty misleading if the Ancient or Plot cards do not count towards it being 'empty'.

I think the summary is not so explicit as the main rules. The move action states "If the hero's new location does not have an encounter..." which is slightly different to being empty. Another example in the summary is the Exception under "Reward: Loot and Rumour". This says option a. must be chosen. On page 16 it says Rumour step option a) must be chosen. Again a slight difference.
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Tristan Hall
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emodiu5 wrote:
mathmethman wrote:

* When you lose a Health Point you also immediately lose an Action Point
Tip: Place any lost HP token on top of a still-to-be-spent AP (if none, on top of an already-spent AP). Such AP/HP combinations are set aside as unavailable until health is regained. (And if you do regain health you still don't regain the AP until the breaking of camp next day.)


Where is this in the rulebook? I found it under the section about losing HP in battle, but I couldn't find any mention of losing HP out of battle and how that relates to AP. I was going to just infer that it meant any time you lost HP you lost AP, but the 'break camp' sequence suggests that we gain AP tokens equal to our current HP, which doesn't really imply that losing HP means you lose those tokens.

The HP loss in question was in resolution of a plot for the Abbess.


Page 12:

Quote:
Important: Throughout the game, whenever a hero loses HP, the hero also loses 1 AP for each HP lost.


emodiu5 wrote:
The wording in the summary under move, "if this location is empty, draw an encounter card" is pretty misleading if the Ancient or Plot cards do not count towards it being 'empty'.


Noted, thanks.
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mathmethman wrote:
I'm not quite sure I understand your point about the implications of breaking camp.


My meaning was that it sounds like "breaking camp" aka the start of the turn implies an explicit phase-- at the start of your turn, when you Break Camp, you receive a number of AP tokens equal to your health. That quantity of tokens is then available for you to use on your turn, just like your other resources. From this, I wouldn't infer that you lose the AP if you lose HP, since we already gained those tokens at the start of the turn.

Tristan has since clarified, so it's sort of a moot point, but I wanted to explain more what I meant.
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Luke
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I just jumped right in after skimming the rules online and watching the first couple minutes of a prototype playthrough vid.

I expected to make many mistakes, and I did.

Here's one I figured out halfway through game 3.

When you complete a saga chapter, your max hp increases and you heal 1 hp.

Resultantly, you'll have more ap as the game goes on. I was leaving myself at 4hp and really struggling to get things done. Imagine my surprise when I realized my Half-Elf had 7hp and woke up in the plains so he had 8 ap.
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mournful wrote:

When you complete a saga chapter, your max hp increases and you heal 1 hp.

I'm not quite sure that 'healing' is the right word. You take an additional health token but you don't heal any that are set aside due to wounds.
So for example if you complete chapter 1 with only 2 health and 2 'wounds'. you would have 3 health and still 2 'wounds' (represented by 3 health tokens in your pool and 2 set aside somewhere). However, if you have 2 AP left you can take the Rest action twice and end up with 5 health.
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Juergen Koeck
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compleating a saga chapter:

Must increase their maximum health by 1 and their HP by 1 (represented by taking a HP token from the token pool).

so if i played it right, i have after saga chapter 4 max 8 HP and 8 AP to spend after breaking camp?
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Thanks a lot for writing this thread. Very useful stuff, i am still learning new things!

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Tristan Hall
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Fennralf wrote:
compleating a saga chapter:

Must increase their maximum health by 1 and their HP by 1 (represented by taking a HP token from the token pool).

so if i played it right, i have after saga chapter 4 max 8 HP and 8 AP to spend after breaking camp?



Correct.
 
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ninjadorg wrote:
Fennralf wrote:
compleating a saga chapter:

Must increase their maximum health by 1 and their HP by 1 (represented by taking a HP token from the token pool).

so if i played it right, i have after saga chapter 4 max 8 HP and 8 AP to spend after breaking camp?



Correct.


Remember that the AP you get after breaking camp will equal to the amount of HP you currently have at the start of that day. So you will have the possibility of 8 AP, if you have full HP. But if you have fewer then it will equal what you have.
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Paul H
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ninjadorg wrote:
Fennralf wrote:
compleating a saga chapter:

Must increase their maximum health by 1 and their HP by 1 (represented by taking a HP token from the token pool).

so if i played it right, i have after saga chapter 4 max 8 HP and 8 AP to spend after breaking camp?



Correct.


In the half dozen times I've played, I've somehow overlooked this rule every time... No wonder the game seemed so brutally hard for me and less so for people on the forums!
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And if the ancients are not encounter cards (location is not "empty" according to the summary), it invalidates my 2 wins... cry
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Hi Tristan
Love the game. Question: When engaging the ancient can you use abilies on cards in play such as armour and weapon abilities. The rules terminology section states you cannot use abilities to defeat an ancient. Please clarify, thanks.
Bamber
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bamloiz wrote:
Hi Tristan
Love the game. Question: When engaging the ancient can you use abilies on cards in play such as armour and weapon abilities. The rules terminology section states you cannot use abilities to defeat an ancient. Please clarify, thanks.
Bamber


Yes you can use all your assets as normal - that restriction is only for cards that specifically allow you to defeat an enemy completely. Basically, you cannot auto-kill the boss.
 
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