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Subject: Games About Plancenoit rss

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Steven Larsen
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I am looking for games that deal with the Battle at Plancenoit (1815 in case you were wondering.)

I know of White Dog Games' Crisis on the Right but nobody seems to have played it. Are there any others? Any Waterloo games that give a detailed treatment of the battle? Maybe some scenarios as part of a larger Waterloo game?

(Sorry if this is a a double post!)
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Eddy Sterckx
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Waterloo 1815: Fallen Eagles has a Plancenoit scenario.
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Andy Daglish
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eddy_sterckx wrote:
Waterloo 1815: Fallen Eagles has a Plancenoit scenario.

And its a very good one. It shows how obdurate Imperial Guards can hold a town in the face of two enemy corps if there's not enough space for even one corps to operate.
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Christina Kahrl
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Keeping in mind that in reality, it took Bülow's Landwehr-heavy IV Corps about two hours to take Plancenoit from the Young Guard and Pelet's Old Guard task force.

Per Adkin, Clayton, Barbero, etc., the Prussians attack Lobau's Plancenoit line at 6 p.m.; he can't hold it an hour with tiny VI Corps. Napoleon releases the Young Guard around 6:45, sends Pelet in around 7:15, and the Prussians hold the town for keeps by 8:30.

So, as I've said in the past over in CSW, to put it in "Fallen Eagles" terms -- Plancenoit was historically a two game-turn fight. That you lose. Defending a town. Against Landwehr. With the Guard.
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Monte Pemberton
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Black Eagles Over Belgium: Blucher vs. Napoleon, 1815
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Steven Goodknecht
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Wellington's Victory: Battle of Waterloo Game – June 18th, 1815 has a two map scenario. Battalion/regiment/battery level, each turn represents 15 minutes and the scenario is 20 turns long.

A detailed but not overly complex tactical system.
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Steven Larsen
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All interesting suggestions. I remember that Wellington game from way back, when I started gaming in the mid 70s. It might be a bit much for me now.

Black Eagles is one I was thinking about but forgot the name. It looks promising but is probably a year or so away from seeing the game stores from what I have seen of the process. I'll keep it on my radar for sure.

Has anyone played Crisis on the Right? Looks like a small filler game but if it is well done I wouldn't mind.
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Andy Daglish
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DiamondSylph wrote:
Keeping in mind that in reality, it took Bülow's Landwehr-heavy IV Corps about two hours to take Plancenoit from the Young Guard and Pelet's Old Guard task force.

Per Adkin, Clayton, Barbero, etc., the Prussians attack Lobau's Plancenoit line at 6 p.m.; he can't hold it an hour with tiny VI Corps. Napoleon releases the Young Guard around 6:45, sends Pelet in around 7:15, and the Prussians hold the town for keeps by 8:30.

So, as I've said in the past over in CSW, to put it in "Fallen Eagles" terms -- Plancenoit was historically a two game-turn fight. That you lose. Defending a town. Against Landwehr. With the Guard.

It appears you forgot the bit about the Prussians finding it easier to bypass the village because their dead were blocking the lanes through it. The French beat off the first attack and retook the buildings, at a run, twice thereafter, despite apparent enormous disparity of numbers. The Prussians never secured themselves in the village, rather the French left it, mostly heavenwards. The fighting to the south of the town was significant, and the game demonstrates this well, and all this is in the context of the manageable regimental-level game featuring two-step units. You may find that if you put in the Old Guard early then the Prussians' problem mount, at least this worked for me.
 
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Christina Kahrl
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Nothing of the sort, Mr. Daglish, and I'm not downplaying the virtues of the game, which I own, enjoy, and recommend.

I merely note the simple fact that Plancenoit -- and the Guard's participation in it -- was a brief thing indeed, and that any simulation of this specific part of the battle has two specific challenges.

First, its limited length, which perhaps suggests the need for very short time increments and a smaller scale to achieve a more substantive simulation (perhaps even if you expand the scope to include Lobau's brief skirmish and retirement at 4 p.m., falling back to Plancenoit).

And second, that you'll have to create a combat model that accurately captures the fact that piling more than 5,000 men of Napoleon's Imperial Guard into Plancenoit on top of having the VI Corps handy isn't going to keep the place from falling to a horde of Prussian Landwehr -- and given the timing, not because of the general French rout. So you'll need a fairly gory CRT.

As for the skirmishing beyond Plancenoit involving other Guard battalions -- which Clayton documents quite nicely for the interested reader -- that's worth noting as far as explaining why they weren't part of the final attack on Wellington's line, or available in reserve, or defending Plancenoit, but it doesn't obviate the demonstrable brevity of the engagement there, or its outcome.
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Balmer David
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Christina Kahrl

Plancenoit was historically a two game-turn fight. That you lose. Defending a town. Against Landwehr. With the Guard.

Yes. It's true.

It was a street fighting combat, during 2h30.
All other Waterloo combat in open terrain were 15 mn firefights maximum.

Plancenoit was firefighting and artillery pounding during two hours and more.

The french were 1 to 2 at the beginning, then 1 to 3 and 1 to 4 in the
end.
The streetfighting is exhausting because the units are deployed in the gardens and houses, close combat with bayonet and musket butt is common, it s difficult to escape a charge, and death toll is gretaer than in open terrain.
The only advantage is the absence of cavalry.


The French Guard attacked at poor odds with bayonet charges and were victorious, retaking the village twice against largely superior numbers.

Then, the batallions dispersed all around, and could not stand new Streets column charges of fresh prussians landwher régiments....


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Jason Cawley
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Wellingtons Victory has a scenario woth that name that covers the entire Prussian flank battle, pretty much.
 
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