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Canada's Foreign Affairs Minister has indicated that Canada will be aligning its interests with our allies in Europe and Asia.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/trudeau-decide...
 
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aiabx wrote:
Canada's Foreign Affairs Minister has indicated that Canada will be aligning its interests with our allies in Europe and Asia.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/trudeau-decide...


TrumpShit and his supporters got what they wanted - isolationism and burning bridges. Now hopefully they will go after each other, trapped on the island, ala Lord of the Flies.

Those with the ability will try to protect the innocent, while the others tear each other apart.



 
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Yes, I can see more and more of this attitude in our former "partners". In the overall scheme of things, 4 years of Trump is something they have to endure, and they will simply wait him out. They will let Trump stew in the corner, until his time is done. When it is, they will work toward some sense of normalcy again.
 
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Edgar the Woebringer
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Hell I know if I was an international tourist I wouldn't want to come here. There's plenty of amazing places in this world. The GOP has basically said "America only cares about itself" and so far deeds appear to match those words. It will be interesting to see if tourism drops. There is a *lot* of money at stake there.
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edgarthewoebringer wrote:
Hell I know if I was an international tourist I wouldn't want to come here. There's plenty of amazing places in this world. The GOP has basically said "America only cares about itself" and so far deeds appear to match those words. It will be interesting to see if tourism drops. There is a *lot* of money at stake there.


As an American, I look forward to exploring the world. To learn. To understand. To contextualize.

If only more Americans could and would travel outside our confines. Those that can, but won't, well there is no excuse. The Magic Kingdom is not the tits, as some purport. It's cool and all, but real life, 'tis not.

 
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edgarthewoebringer wrote:
Hell I know if I was an international tourist I wouldn't want to come here. There's plenty of amazing places in this world. The GOP has basically said "America only cares about itself" and so far deeds appear to match those words. It will be interesting to see if tourism drops. There is a *lot* of money at stake there.

Pretty much the reason why our next family vacation will be overseas. This is after travelling to various locations in the US at least once a year for the last decade or so.
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abadolato01 wrote:
Yes, I can see more and more of this attitude in our former "partners". In the overall scheme of things, 4 years of Trump is something they have to endure, and they will simply wait him out. They will let Trump stew in the corner, until his time is done. When it is, they will work toward some sense of normalcy again.


this is something I see a lot of American express and it's much less correct than you think it is

the mistake is: you've mentally categorized Trump as being some sort of crazed outlier, except from everybody else's perspective he isn't one; George W. Bush did, on a less dramatically stupid scale, much of what Trump is doing or wants to do on a foreign policy basis - alienation of allies (particularly Europe), unilateral foreign policy, general antipathy towards the notion of treaties or alliances, willingness to be aggressive on trade policy, etc.

and more than that: the rest of the world could clearly see that Trump was manifestly unfit for office, and a (minority, but even so) of Americans still voted for him and he has the total support of the Republican party; the problem isn't Trump, it's that a significant portion of America wants Trump and thinks like Trump, and that means that when Trump leaves office, the problem isn't going to leave with him, and other nations will have to behave accordingly
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darthhugo wrote:
edgarthewoebringer wrote:
Hell I know if I was an international tourist I wouldn't want to come here. There's plenty of amazing places in this world. The GOP has basically said "America only cares about itself" and so far deeds appear to match those words. It will be interesting to see if tourism drops. There is a *lot* of money at stake there.


As an American, I look forward to exploring the world. To learn. To understand. To contextualize.

If only more Americans could and would travel outside our confines. Those that can, but won't, well there is no excuse. The Magic Kingdom is not the tits, as some purport. It's cool and all, but real life, 'tis not.



I recall first trip to Europe, probably the biggest culture shock was seeing just how little mention of the USA there was in news and conversation around me. This was the mid-90s so obviously a different time, but it was jarring. Sports, politics, weather...barely anything about the good 'ol USA. I'm like "these people have lives way over here?!" ;-)
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mightygodking wrote:
abadolato01 wrote:
Yes, I can see more and more of this attitude in our former "partners". In the overall scheme of things, 4 years of Trump is something they have to endure, and they will simply wait him out. They will let Trump stew in the corner, until his time is done. When it is, they will work toward some sense of normalcy again.


this is something I see a lot of American express and it's much less correct than you think it is

the mistake is: you've mentally categorized Trump as being some sort of crazed outlier, except from everybody else's perspective he isn't one; George W. Bush did, on a less dramatically stupid scale, much of what Trump is doing or wants to do on a foreign policy basis - alienation of allies (particularly Europe), unilateral foreign policy, general antipathy towards the notion of treaties or alliances, willingness to be aggressive on trade policy, etc.

and more than that: the rest of the world could clearly see that Trump was manifestly unfit for office, and a (minority, but even so) of Americans still voted for him and he has the total support of the Republican party; the problem isn't Trump, it's that a significant portion of America wants Trump and thinks like Trump, and that means that when Trump leaves office, the problem isn't going to leave with him, and other nations will have to behave accordingly


There are several flaws in your arguemnt;

Although the other countries have to take him seriously, it was clear after the drop from the Paris Accord that many are not happy with Trump, and many seem quite willing to move on without him, including the likes of Macron, May, and Merkel.

He does not have the total support of the Republican party, many have expressed a "wait and see" approach, and if he did have their total support as you mention, he would have already achieved much more legislatively than he has. The hard right opposed his health care plan, and it barely got thru the House on its feet. He has less political capital than you are giving him credit for.

Although you are right in that some people may believe in Trumps policies, I think it's the execution here that matters. Trump is bombastic, alienates everyone he seems to come in contact with. It's great to say Make America Great Again, but he needs allies to make this happen, and so far, other than a few loyal staffers, he has not really fostered that. heck, he is having a difficult time even staffing his Administration (see recent thread on that).

If the policy doesnt change in the hands of the next President, I suspect, that, at minimum, the message will be delivered by a less abrasive man/woman.
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edgarthewoebringer wrote:
darthhugo wrote:
edgarthewoebringer wrote:
Hell I know if I was an international tourist I wouldn't want to come here. There's plenty of amazing places in this world. The GOP has basically said "America only cares about itself" and so far deeds appear to match those words. It will be interesting to see if tourism drops. There is a *lot* of money at stake there.


As an American, I look forward to exploring the world. To learn. To understand. To contextualize.

If only more Americans could and would travel outside our confines. Those that can, but won't, well there is no excuse. The Magic Kingdom is not the tits, as some purport. It's cool and all, but real life, 'tis not.



I recall first trip to Europe, probably the biggest culture shock was seeing just how little mention of the USA there was in news and conversation around me. This was the mid-90s so obviously a different time, but it was jarring. Sports, politics, weather...barely anything about the good 'ol USA. I'm like "these people have lives way over here?!" ;-)


The sad thing when traveling in more touristy spots outside the US... you can always tell an American by the sheer level of inane conversation and decibels.

The stereotype is truth.

Now, not all, but if there was an annoying group... I would bet $500 they were American.
 
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darthhugo wrote:
edgarthewoebringer wrote:
darthhugo wrote:
edgarthewoebringer wrote:
Hell I know if I was an international tourist I wouldn't want to come here. There's plenty of amazing places in this world. The GOP has basically said "America only cares about itself" and so far deeds appear to match those words. It will be interesting to see if tourism drops. There is a *lot* of money at stake there.


As an American, I look forward to exploring the world. To learn. To understand. To contextualize.

If only more Americans could and would travel outside our confines. Those that can, but won't, well there is no excuse. The Magic Kingdom is not the tits, as some purport. It's cool and all, but real life, 'tis not.



I recall first trip to Europe, probably the biggest culture shock was seeing just how little mention of the USA there was in news and conversation around me. This was the mid-90s so obviously a different time, but it was jarring. Sports, politics, weather...barely anything about the good 'ol USA. I'm like "these people have lives way over here?!" ;-)


The sad thing when traveling in more touristy spots outside the US... you can always tell an American by the sheer level of inane conversation and decibels.

The stereotype is truth.

Now, not all, but if there was an annoying group... I would bet $500 they were American.

Or Japanese. They're always chattering away and taking 3 billion photos. Nice folks, though.
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abadolato01 wrote:
Although the other countries have to take him seriously, it was clear after the drop from the Paris Accord that many are not happy with Trump, and many seem quite willing to move on without him, including the likes of Macron, May, and Merkel.


well, yes, that's kind of the point, "moving on" is not just moving on without Trump, but without the United States

Quote:
He does not have the total support of the Republican party, many have expressed a "wait and see" approach, and if he did have their total support as you mention, he would have already achieved much more legislatively than he has. The hard right opposed his health care plan, and it barely got thru the House on its feet.


the problem with GOP legislation at this point has nothing to do with Trump - who does not care at all about policy and has no policy positions beyond what he can be convinced of at any given time - and everything with the GOP's nutbar policy positions, wherein the conflict is not between anybody and Trump but between the diehard Freedom Caucus/Tea Partiers who have adopted total scorched-earth policies and the representatives in swing districts who know the party will be destroyed if they adopt those policies; it also doesn't help that most of the GOP House caucus is staggeringly inept (the Senate caucus is better on the whole)

Quote:
Although you are right in that some people may believe in Trumps policies, I think it's the execution here that matters.


again: Trump's overall foreign policy shift is simply a cruder version of Dubya's, and Dubya and his administration needlessly antagonized longtime allies for no real gain; the losses were less because they weren't as viciously assholic about it, but the rest of the world recognizes that this strain of American thought is real and not going away; sure, Trump is loathsome, but he's just the tip of a shitberg
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edgarthewoebringer wrote:
It will be interesting to see if tourism drops.


According to US travel & tourism stats, this is already happening.
 
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remorseless1 wrote:
darthhugo wrote:
edgarthewoebringer wrote:
darthhugo wrote:
edgarthewoebringer wrote:
Hell I know if I was an international tourist I wouldn't want to come here. There's plenty of amazing places in this world. The GOP has basically said "America only cares about itself" and so far deeds appear to match those words. It will be interesting to see if tourism drops. There is a *lot* of money at stake there.


As an American, I look forward to exploring the world. To learn. To understand. To contextualize.

If only more Americans could and would travel outside our confines. Those that can, but won't, well there is no excuse. The Magic Kingdom is not the tits, as some purport. It's cool and all, but real life, 'tis not.



I recall first trip to Europe, probably the biggest culture shock was seeing just how little mention of the USA there was in news and conversation around me. This was the mid-90s so obviously a different time, but it was jarring. Sports, politics, weather...barely anything about the good 'ol USA. I'm like "these people have lives way over here?!" ;-)


The sad thing when traveling in more touristy spots outside the US... you can always tell an American by the sheer level of inane conversation and decibels.

The stereotype is truth.

Now, not all, but if there was an annoying group... I would bet $500 they were American.

Or Japanese. They're always chattering away and taking 3 billion photos. Nice folks, though.


One of the coolest things I had the pleasure to observe was around 200 Japanese holding a ceremony at the Japanese Garden of Peace on Corregidor.



 
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