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Adam Starks
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1) If Cthulhu Awakens Nyogtha, does he gain 1 Elder Sign or 2?
2) Does Hierophants kick in when acquiring an Indie GOO Spellbook?
3) What happens when you Awaken Eihort or use his Spellbook while A) an Acolyte on a Gate is on Sleeper's faction sheet due to Cursed Slumber, or B) one or more Acolytes are Submerged with Cthulhu? Do you still replace those Cultists with Brood, and if so, are those units now locked off of the map (i.e. is Cthulhu forever and always now Submerged), or can you use those Spellbooks to return to the map (just not to exit the map with any Brood Tokens)?
4) When Eihort is killed, do his Brood remain on the gates, or do they fall off? If they remain, do the gates count as Abandoned?
5) Is Nyogtha's Spellbook Requirement satisfied if 1 of the units is Killed in a battle that the other was not involved in?

Any other questions people have? I figure a centralized place will make it easier to track answers.
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Lincoln Petersen
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1) If Cthulhu Awakens Nyogtha, does he gain 1 Elder Sign or 2?
1
2) Does Hierophants kick in when acquiring an Indie GOO Spellbook?
no
3) What happens when you Awaken Eihort or use his Spellbook while A) an Acolyte on a Gate is on Sleeper's faction sheet due to Cursed Slumber, or B) one or more Acolytes are Submerged with Cthulhu? Do you still replace those Cultists with Brood, and if so, are those units now locked off of the map (i.e. is Cthulhu forever and always now Submerged), or can you use those Spellbooks to return to the map (just not to exit the map with any Brood Tokens)?
Thy cannot take the move action but they can be moved by enemies and they can be pained.
4) When Eihort is killed, do his Brood remain on the gates, or do they fall off? If they remain, do the gates count as Abandoned?
The brood become neutral and thus the gate is abandoned.
5) Is Nyogtha's Spellbook Requirement satisfied if 1 of the units is Killed in a battle that the other was not involved in?
It's got to be IN the battle area.
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Adam Starks
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Just to clarify your answer to #3, say Cthulhu has Eihort's Spellbook, 2 Power, and all 6 Brood in play, and he Submerges with 1 Acolyte Cultist, intending to un-Submerge somewhere else. Then, Sleeper does his Spellbook Requirement for everyone losing 1 Power, trapping Cthulhu off the map, then moves in and Captures all of Cthulhu's Brood. That means during the Doom Phase, Cthulhu is forced to replace his Submerged Acolyte with a Brood, and is now locked off of the map for the rest of the game.

That seems kinda... harsh.
 
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Adam Starks
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Brood can only be moved by enemy Spellbooks and Abilities, and in the OMR, Cursed Slumber is specifically called out as invalid to use on a Brood controlling a Gate.
 
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Lincoln Petersen
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submerge isn't a "move".
 
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Adam Starks
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Quote:
Brood tokens are Cultists with a Combat of 1. They cannot take the Move Action, nor can they be moved by movement-like or movement-modifying abilities (such as Submerge or Arctic Winds). Brood tokens can still be Pained or moved by enemy abilities and Spellbooks.
 
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Sandy Petersen
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Using logic (I know - logic has no place in game definitions), clearly Cthulhu should either be allowed to Emerge with a Brood, or off-map Acolytes (like a submerged one) aren't replaced with Brood.
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Chase Norton
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Can we get more clarification on #1? If one Nyogtha unit is killed, and Cthulhu brings it back (for a mere 2 power with spellbook), does he get an ES?

In a similar vein of thought, since "Nyogtha is two units", and only gains 1 ES from Cthulhu's faction ability (further cementing the fact that both units are a single GOO), do effects that require a GOO to die trigger when only one Nyogtha unit is killed?
 
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Alex Hobbit
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AdamStarks wrote:
Just to clarify your answer to #3, say Cthulhu has Eihort's Spellbook, 2 Power, and all 6 Brood in play, and he Submerges with 1 Acolyte Cultist, intending to un-Submerge somewhere else. Then, Sleeper does his Spellbook Requirement for everyone losing 1 Power, trapping Cthulhu off the map, then moves in and Captures all of Cthulhu's Brood. That means during the Doom Phase, Cthulhu is forced to replace his Submerged Acolyte with a Brood, and is now locked off of the map for the rest of the game.

That seems kinda... harsh.


Devolve the Submerged Acolyte, get Eihort Killed or don´t Awaken him in the first place. No need for an exception.
 
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Adam Starks
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Thanks, Sandy! I figured it'd be something like that, but having an official post to point towards helps avoid disputes

Alcex wrote:
Devolve the Submerged Acolyte, get Eihort Killed or don´t Awaken him in the first place. No need for an exception.

You might not have any Deep Ones in your Pool, you can't Devolve Submerged Acolytes anyways (they have to be on the map), and if you're out of power, you can't get Eihort Killed. Besides which, Sandy just okay'd fudging things to avoid this situation (one's pick of either not converting Off-Map Acolytes, or allowing an Un-Submerge or Un-Cursed Slumber).
 
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Alex Hobbit
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AdamStarks wrote:
You might not have any Deep Ones in your Pool, you can't Devolve Submerged Acolytes anyways (they have to be on the map), and if you're out of power, you can't get Eihort Killed. Besides which, Sandy just okay'd fudging things to avoid this situation (one's pick of either not converting Off-Map Acolytes, or allowing an Un-Submerge or Un-Cursed Slumber).


Thanks, i totally missed the "on the map", but you still can get Eihort Killed next round, so i see no reason for an exception (correcting a bad move of a player).
 
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Alex Hobbit
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AdamStarks wrote:
Just to clarify your answer to #3, say Cthulhu has Eihort's Spellbook, 2 Power, and all 6 Brood in play, and he Submerges with 1 Acolyte Cultist, intending to un-Submerge somewhere else. Then, Sleeper does his Spellbook Requirement for everyone losing 1 Power, trapping Cthulhu off the map, then moves in and Captures all of Cthulhu's Brood. That means during the Doom Phase, Cthulhu is forced to replace his Submerged Acolyte with a Brood, and is now locked off of the map for the rest of the game.

That seems kinda... harsh.


Now i feel totally stupid.

Unclean Bargain
Quote:
If you have any Brood tokens in your Pool, replace your Acolyte Cultists with Brood tokens on a one-for-one basis until either you run out of Acolyte Cultists (on the Map) or Brood tokens (in your Pool). This is not optional.

 
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Adam Starks
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Oh, good catch! Awakening Eihort doesn't have that 'On the Map' requirement, but is generally less detailed than 'Unclean Bargain', which does. So, I'll go ahead and assume that the initial Awakening is intended to be the same, and leave any Cursed Slumber / Captured / Submerged Acolytes alone.
 
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Alex Hobbit
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AdamStarks wrote:
Oh, good catch! Awakening Eihort doesn't have that 'On the Map' requirement, but is generally less detailed than 'Unclean Bargain', which does. So, I'll go ahead and assume that the initial Awakening is intended to be the same, and leave any Cursed Slumber / Captured / Submerged Acolytes alone.


Captured are not in play, slumbered and submerged are, so don´t Awaken Eihort or accept the consequences.

A Gate with a neutral brood is not abandoned (OMR p.18):
Quote:
A Gate can also be Abandoned, which simply means that no Cultist is on top of it.


And some more:

6) Insects of Shaggai, when you buy them it says place one in any Area, but not when you Summon them (like Moonbeasts, Shamblers). I assume you can still Summon them in any Area, same with the Hound (any Gate).

7)Terrors (OMR p.84):
Quote:
However, being a separate Unit type, they are not vulnerable to abilities which specifically target Monsters.

Are they affected by They Break Through, Yr and the Nhhngr and Avatar?
Yes, yes, owners choice.


 
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Mark Buckley
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Not necessarily now true as it's from 2015, but see Sandy's comment here re Eihort/Brood:

https://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/20034940#20034940

He specifically mentions "on-map Acolyte Cultists"
 
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Adam Starks
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Alcex wrote:
Captured are not in play, slumbered and submerged are, so don´t Awaken Eihort or accept the consequences.

Alex, the designer of the game already said that either off-map Acolytes should be excluded, or you should be allowed to un-Submerge. I'm not sure why you're still fighting this battle

Alcex wrote:
A Gate with a neutral brood is not abandoned (OMR p.18):
Quote:
A Gate can also be Abandoned, which simply means that no Cultist is on top of it.

Another PG designer (Lincoln) has already ruled in this thread that such Gates count as Abandoned. That doesn't necessarily mean the Brood has to be removed from the gate (see the Glaciers in Primeval).

Alcex wrote:
6) Insects of Shaggai, when you buy them it says place one in any Area, but not when you Summon them (like Moonbeasts, Shamblers). I assume you can still Summon them in any Area, same with the Hound (any Gate).

You still summon them like normal monsters, because they don't have a rule saying otherwise (like Moonbeasts, Shamblers, and Ghasts). The Hound also does not have a rule saying it can be Summoned at any gate, and so you also must re-Summon it at your own Gate.

The conditions for buying the loyalty of a neutral Monster or Terror are not the same conditions as summoning it. For instance, the Hound costs 2 Doom & 2 Power to initially acquire, but then after 0 Doom & 4 Power. It therefore also makes sense that *where* you Summon it might be different from where it's placed when acquired.

Of course, it's entirely possible that PG intended to let you re-Summon Insects or the Hound wherever you want, and forgot to include the rule to allow it. If that's the case, I smell OS3 errata

Alcex wrote:
7)Terrors (OMR p.84):
Quote:
However, being a separate Unit type, they are not vulnerable to abilities which specifically target Monsters.

Are they affected by They Break Through, Yr and the Nhhngr and Avatar?
Yes, yes, owners choice.

No, no, and no, because each of those things specifically calls out Monsters, not Terrors. I could see They Break Through being Errata'd, though, but that might give Opener an unintended advantage with Terrors (i.e. paying 4 Power to summon the Dhole right on top of an enemy army, then 1 Power for combat, when other factions would have to spend at least 6 or 7 power to accomplish the same).
 
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Tiago Gouveia
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AdamStarks wrote:

No, no, and no, because each of those things specifically calls out Monsters, not Terrors. I could see They Break Through being Errata'd, though, but that might give Opener an unintended advantage with Terrors (i.e. paying 4 Power to summon the Dhole right on top of an enemy army, then 1 Power for combat, when other factions would have to spend at least 6 or 7 power to accomplish the same).


huuummmm... not sure anout this.
TBT is one of the key movement abilities for OW, they cant fly or artic wind or submerge... it makes sense they can benefit from summoning Terrors on Yog, abandoned or enemycontroled gates, it is a summon action isn´t it? I think a clarification and/or errata is needed here.
 
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Adam Starks
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They can Summon at Yog regardless, since he counts as a Controlled Gate for his own faction (which is the whole reason he grants +2 Power, +1 Doom, etc). But RAW, Terrors can't take advantage of They Break Through to be summoned at enemy or abandoned gates, and there's not really anything to support a RAI that says otherwise.

Regardless, PG's official word would be welcome
 
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