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Subject: Reassurance about the forced win rss

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Andrew Spiers

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I have read about the forced win and I have two questions?

- is it realistically easy to do without the additional rings?
- do the additional research has entirely fix the problem?

Many thanks
 
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Michael Reitz
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I was a part of the players that found out the problem in 2001.
I can answer both of your questions with "yes".

The additonal rings would just require more sacrifices to keep the initiative, but you cannot afford these additional sacrifices without loosing.

Michael
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Andrew Spiers

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Fantastic to hear, although it a shame it easy to do. It's good to know the game is 100% fixed

Thanks for feedback
 
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Michael Reitz
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Well, it is "easy" to do if you know how. It isn't obvious for inexperienced players and depending on the opening move you have to follow precisely different move sequences in order to succeed.
Anyway, with the rules of the second edition (or the current HUCH&friends release) there is no configuration with that problem anymore.

Michael
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chicagopsych

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Was there a configuration or rule change other than adding the additional rings?
 
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Michael Reitz
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chicagopsych wrote:
Was there a configuration or rule change other than adding the additional rings?

No. Only the board with 37 rings is not used with 6 white, 8 gray and 10 black marbles (i.e. winning with 4 white, 5 gray, 6 black or 3 of each color) anymore.

Michael
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chicagopsych

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KivasFajo wrote:
chicagopsych wrote:
Was there a configuration or rule change other than adding the additional rings?

No. Only the board with 37 rings is not used with 5 white, 7 gray and 9 black marbles (i.e. winning with 3 white, 4 gray, 5 black or 2 of each color) anymore.

Michael


Thanks. I did not know that the quantity of balls and winning condition had changed after the forced win discovery. I only thought the number of rings increased. We own the newer version, but as a casual player, the forced win issue was never an issue for us anyway
 
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Andrew Spiers

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Hi Michael

You seem like an expert and kindly answered my questions a few months ago. I had a few more but have struggled to fibre answers

- how does increasing the number of rings change the game? I have seen people play online on much larger boards
- has the win conditions re required marbles meant that the forced win is not and issue even without you of the additional rings?
- if the additional rings are needed, how many?

Thank you or your help again
 
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Andrew Spiers

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KivasFajo wrote:
Well, it is "easy" to do if you know how. It isn't obvious for inexperienced players and depending on the opening move you have to follow precisely different move sequences in order to succeed.
Anyway, with the rules of the second edition (or the current HUCH&friends release) there is no configuration with that problem anymore.

Michael


Hi Michael

You seem like an expert and kindly answered my questions a few months ago. I had a few more but have struggled to fibre answers

- how does increasing the number of rings change the game? I have seen people play online on much larger boards
- has the win conditions re required marbles meant that the forced win is not and issue even without you of the additional rings?
- if the additional rings are needed, how many?

Thank you or your help again
 
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Morten K
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chicagopsych wrote:
KivasFajo wrote:
chicagopsych wrote:
Was there a configuration or rule change other than adding the additional rings?

No. Only the board with 37 rings is not used with 5 white, 7 gray and 9 black marbles (i.e. winning with 3 white, 4 gray, 5 black or 2 of each color) anymore.

Michael


Thanks. I did not know that the quantity of balls and winning condition had changed after the forced win discovery. I only thought the number of rings increased. We own the newer version, but as a casual player, the forced win issue was never an issue for us anyway


What's the change in numbers?
 
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Michael Reitz
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HighResBear wrote:
KivasFajo wrote:
Well, it is "easy" to do if you know how. It isn't obvious for inexperienced players and depending on the opening move you have to follow precisely different move sequences in order to succeed.
Anyway, with the rules of the second edition (or the current HUCH&friends release) there is no configuration with that problem anymore.

Michael


Hi Michael

You seem like an expert and kindly answered my questions a few months ago. I had a few more but have struggled to fibre answers

- how does increasing the number of rings change the game? I have seen people play online on much larger boards
- has the win conditions re required marbles meant that the forced win is not and issue even without you of the additional rings?
- if the additional rings are needed, how many?

Thank you or your help again

Hi,
the bigger "boards" have 48 or 61 rings.
Adding more rings makes it impossible to control the forced capture moves in a way that enables a forced win.
Using less marbles (i.e. 5 white, 7 gray, 9 black, winning by capturing 3 white, 4 gray, 5 black or 2 of each color) on the board with 37 rings reduces the number of marbles that you can sacrifice, which prevents the forced win, too.

I hope that answers your questions.

Michael
 
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Michael Reitz
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Tigrillo wrote:
chicagopsych wrote:
KivasFajo wrote:
chicagopsych wrote:
Was there a configuration or rule change other than adding the additional rings?

No. Only the board with 37 rings is not used with 5 white, 7 gray and 9 black marbles (i.e. winning with 3 white, 4 gray, 5 black or 2 of each color) anymore.

Michael


Thanks. I did not know that the quantity of balls and winning condition had changed after the forced win discovery. I only thought the number of rings increased. We own the newer version, but as a casual player, the forced win issue was never an issue for us anyway


What's the change in numbers?


Hi Morten,

the 37 rings board uses now 5 white, 7 gray, 9 black rings (winning by capturing 3 white, 4 gray, 5 black or 2 of each color).
All variants should be in the rule book (as long as you have the 2nd edition from SMART or the current edition by HUCH).

Michael
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Morten K
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Thanks Michael. I have the older edition so that's why.
 
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Michael Reitz
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KivasFajo wrote:
chicagopsych wrote:
Was there a configuration or rule change other than adding the additional rings?

No. Only the board with 37 rings is not used with 5 white, 7 gray and 9 black marbles (i.e. winning with 3 white, 4 gray, 5 black or 2 of each color) anymore.

Michael


Sorry, I just recognized that I messed up the marble numbers. The correct numbers are:
Only the board with 37 rings is not used with 6 white, 8 gray and 10 black marbles (i.e. winning with 4 white, 5 gray, 6 black or 3 of each color) anymore.

37 rings with 6 white, 8 gray and 10 black marbles was the original tournament version.

I already corrected the numbers in all my posts.

Michael
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