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Subject: Official Shadows of Brimstone FAQ question thread. rss

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Neil Edmonds
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Jason Hill recently said he's working on an official FAQ for Shadows of Brimstone, and suggested someone organize a single thread for gathering user questions, so here it is. I'm working with

Jee Fu
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to come up with questions, although things certainly don't have to be limited to either one of us. I hope Jason Hill finds this thread helpful.

I've consolidated the questions in one post with topical headings, although due to some overlap, you might have to read an additional section to find what you're looking for. Each question is in large bold font with discussion underneath detailing specific cases, items, or technical discussion. If you see a red heading, but nothing's underneath it, then that section currently has no customer questions.

Please note that this is a living document, and questions will be removed when they're addressed in the official Flying Frog FAQ.
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Neil Edmonds
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Current for the 06/22/2017 Flying Frog PDF

General stuff

When drawing a straight line for items like the Darkstone Prism, is the line based on the spaces themselves (orthogonal or diagonal) or simply a straight line from the hero's miniature to another point on the map tile similar to the line of sight rules on page 24?

What is the order of precedence for mission, encounter, hero ability, item, and enemy effects when they contradict each other? Are restrictions supposed to override benefits regardless of their source?

The most concise description of the problem I've seen to date is this:

Quote:
What happens if a Preacher (Ranged 5+) under the effects of Void Venom (-1 To-Hit) fires a Long Bow (Crit on a 4+) into Steam Clouds (only Hit on a 6+, no Crits allowed) while Stench of Death Hungry Dead (-1 To-Hit) are in play ... and rolls a 6?

See the critical hits section for some more examples of this problem.

Game Setup

Turn Order and timing of actions

When the Gambler uses the Aces High upgrade to change misses into hits, does that effect kick in before bad effects that occur when the hero rolls a miss or does the hero suffer the miss effect in addition to changing the miss to a hit?

Inspector Jee has a detailed explanation on page 6 of this forum post. Here's the summary of the problem and desired solution:

The essential problem is that the rules are set up such that an Attack roll, and its results, must be established before you decide Targets. Making it go in reverse is going to muck things up in ways that we cannot forsee [ed - for example, the lower initiative enemy is killed before the bonus hit is applied.] It would be better for the ability to say something like "You are +1 to your To-Hit rolls if there is an Enemy in Range with less Initiative than your Cunning." - this makes it slightly better, but it leaves the establishment of Misses/Hits exactly where it should be in the order of operations.

Is there a restriction on when you're allowed to level up during the Town or Travel phases (start of travel, start of day, etc)?

The Dark Stone Shaman performs transformations at the start of their activation. Does this mean Growth Attack may only be used during the Shaman's activation, or could the Shaman transform, move into a space, and spend a Grit to perform a Growth Attack?

It's been reported that Sermons can't be cast before the Hold Back the Darkness roll. Shouldn't there be a more precise turn order description since some player actions (like Sermons) can happen at any time? Are there any other specific limitations players should be aware of?

Grit and Other reroll effects

Can grit be used to re-roll the price of Darkstone shards being sold?

Yes, the size/quality of the shards being sold won't change, but perhaps the grit expenditure represents the hero's attempt at haggling, which could succeed or fail based on the re-roll.

The Gambler's abilities are at odds with the new Grit rules. Does the Gambler's abilities allow them to modify another player's die rolls or an Enemy's die rolls?

The new restrictions on Grit don't mention Mission required dice rolls. Can the Gambler use their abilities to influence die rolls required by the Mission to save townsfolk, close portals, discover hidden burial grounds, etc. or does it fall under the rules forbidding the use of Grit on rolls that aren't "your dice"?

It seems like the Gambler character was designed to do this, but the FAQ invalidated those abilities, make the Gambler much less desirable as a character.

Damage, Healing, and Death

Are enemy attacks that move the hero into another space applied after each individual enemy attacks, or after the entire group of enemies is done attacking the hero?

Doing the former could result in a feedback loop where the hero bounces back and forth between spaces acquiring status like "on fire" markers.

Is doubling damage, starting health, combat, and shots done before or after modifiers?

Is doubling Health, for example El Tejon's Bandits, done before any bonuses to Health?

Is doubling damage, for example shooting Silver Bullets at a Beast, done before any bonuses to the damage?

Does Crushed Darkstone only double the characters base Combat ability, or would it also double the combat bonuses from items, for example an axe that gives +1 Combat?

Official Answer: Doubling is always done using the Base Value before any modifiers. Stats with a permanent change through leveling up or a one-off event are actually altered, so it would be included before being modified.

The Plasma Arc and the Maximus Heavy Machine Gun inflict multiple Hits on the main target, and Hits on secondary targets. Do each of the main Hits get +damage modifiers? What about the secondary hits?

Maybe a new term like Secondary Hits is required? The problem is with the wording in the FAQ:

Damage modifiers may only be applied on Damage to a model from a successful To Hit roll assigned to that model.

Any other Damage caused does not gain the benefits of Damage modifiers unless specifically noted as such in the Damage modifier’s text.


The wording is odd because some effects are described as wounds (each adjacent model takes 1 wound), while others are described "as hits" (each adjacent model takes 1 hit). Since some game effects apply to "one of your hits", those effects wouldn't apply to wounds, but might apply to hits, except that no successful to-hit roll was made against the secondary target. Was that the intent - that these secondary attacks should only benefit from things that say "your attack" or "all your attacks"?

Do benefits that apply to "your attack" or "all your attacks" also apply to effects that do damage, but aren't labeled as attacks, specifically:

Does the benefit apply when the Hero uses an item that does damage like the Book of the Mad King, the Ring of Oro’sia, Ash of Shadows, Brimstone Ash, and Book of the Lost?

Does the benefit apply to class abilites like Spinning Kick (Saloon Girl), Swinging Rifle (Rancher), End of the Line (Marshal), Shadow Strike (Scout), Feared by Evil (Drifter) and Parry (Saloon girl)?

Does the benefit apply to Preacher Sermons, Samurai Battle Tactics and Shaman Spells? How about the Shaman's lightning field?


Some of the most interesting cases are the Drifter's Feared by Evil (the Drifter isn't doing anything) and the Sermons and Spells which aren't using the hero's ranged or combat to-hit value, but an arbitrary result to determine sermon or spell's effectiveness (strictly speaking it's Jesus/Nature Spirits/the Great Pumpkin/etc. doing something on the hero's behalf, so it makes sense the Sermon or Spell shouldn't benefit from the caster's bonuses.)

When a Hit has been registered, at what point do abilities that positively or negatively affect the target (e.g. status effects, or abilities that alter wounds caused or taken) take effect? Is this always after armor saves are taken? Are there exceptions to the general rule, and if so, what are those exceptions?

The source of this question is a disagreement with a BGG user over the timing of endurance and armor.

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/2168606/endurance-and-armor...

Does a Sorceress with the Blood of the Dragon starting ability or a hero with an anti-venom injection from the Doctor's Office ignore potent poisons, for example, the Dark Stone Scorpion's attack?

If the potent poison rules don't say otherwise, I'd say yes. It's just another kind of poison that's ignored.

What happens to a hero's mutations, parasites, injuries, mutations, injuries, madnesses, curses, corruption points, and acquired keywords (tribal, law, outlaw, holy) when the hero is resurrected at the Church? Is the hero restored to full health and full sanity?

Can a dead Vampire hero be resurrected in the Church?

Official Answer: No, since the vampire can't enter the church; however, revival was provided so players could preserve their characters, so players can allow the resurrection if they want to.

Critical Hits

Can we assume that non-critical hit effects that trigger on rolls of a specific number always trigger on a natural roll - unless otherwise specified ('on a 6' vs 'on a 6 or more' or 'on the roll of 6+')? If modifiers are allowed, what happens when negative modifiers make it impossible to reach the target value? Can these effects occur when items or abilities automatically grant a specific result (eg - treat your movement die as a 6)?

This question arose from the Worn Sandals card in Forbidden Fortress.

A long bow critical hits on a 4, 5, or 6. How does that reconcile with a character that normally hits ranged attacks with a value of 5 or better? Is this effect different from an item granting a free attack like the Raptor's Claw, which isn't normally subject to a character's abilities and bonuses?

The reason this is an issue is the precedent set by Hell Bullets which causes a critical hit on a roll of 1. Normally a hero can't critical hit if they can't hit a target in the first place.

Corruption, Mutation, and Parasites

The new FAQ still leaves some opportunities for gaming the system when calculating corruption hits at the end of the adventure. Can Darkstone be traded at all between heroes? Can Darkstone be traded during fights? Can Darkstone be traded while divvying up loot after the final fight, but before the corruption roll is made?

Limiting trading Darkstone during the adventure hurts characters that use it frequently, but loose rule means players will abuse it to get around the corruption hit rules.

One possibilty I can think of, if you carried an item at any point during the adventure, you're subject to the corruption roll if the item is still present at the end of the adventure. This allows players to trade darkstone for consumable powers, while preventing players from swapping items to avoid corruption rolls since both heroes would make the roll. Of course, this causes problems for heroes who are intentionally trying to get mutations....

Was the U.S. Marshall with the No Nonsense upgrade (rolling the same mutation twice has no effect), low corruption resistance, and corruption generating items supposed to be able to stockpile mutations? Should the No Nonsense Marshall be required to select a new mutation if the Dark Stone buckle provides a new mutation and a duplicate mutation?

For example, a No Nonsense Marshall that has a mutation value of 1 point, a Dark Stone Buckle (roll twice on the chart), and a Hell Sword that can generate up to 3 Corruption Points could potentially roll for 6 mutations on a turn.

Allies

What effect does the addition or subtraction of allies during the adventure have on the threat level, enemy elite abilities, and effects that depend on the size of the posse (revive tokens, mission goals, etc.)?

Since allies can't gain XP or loot, do they have to draw Scavenge cards if instructed to do so because they're behaving like heroes?

What level are allies when they're found in the mines? Is it possible to find Veteran allies in the mines when the posse is eligible to purchase them in town?

What do we calculate as an Ally's "Hero Level" for the purposes of effects that reference it? For instance, Werewolves' Combat is based on the Hero Level of the Target. If a Werewolf attacks an Ally, how do we calculate that Ally's Hero Level?

At the moment, Inspector Jee is playing it as +1 for Veteran, +1 for each Ally Level - this makes it a max of 8, assuming they start at level 1.

Partial Official Answer: An ally's level is 1 plus the number of upgrades they have for Encounter cards that do damage based on the hero's level.

Do Allies count toward as Heroes who have to spend Grit to cancel Growing Dread?

Allies cannot spend Grit (except in very specific instances - see The Blacksmith), so are we to assume that if Allies are on the board, this act of desperation cannot be used? Are we instead intended to rely on "Check it Out"? If so this essentially means that if you have only non-Henchmen Allies you cannot use Grit to cancel Growing Dread.

Can Allies receive Injuries/Madnesses? If so, what happens to Allies if they're forced to?

For example during the Mines Advanced Encounter that comes with the Mines bridge tile from Caverns of Cynder (I believe it's called "Angry Spirits" or "Vengeful Spirits" or some such). all Heroes have to roll a dice for each Anvil they're carrying and on the roll of a 1 they can choose to lose the item or take an Injury. If Allies can't get injuries, do they just ... lose the item?

How are curses and parasites removed from Allies? Would it be similar to how Mutations are removed, with a chance for ally death? Are there any cures provided for heroes that are forbidden for use by allies?

Can Allies use/equip Items without Anvils?

A strict reading says "no" as the Ally card doesn't mention them among the things Allies can use/equip. However, the rules for non-Animal Allies don't list "use" as a restriction (it only lists carrying capacity).

If Allies sit out for the Adventure, do they still roll for Darkstone Corruption at the end?

Inspector Jee is worried that players could avoid making corruption rolls by stashing darkstone on an unlimited number of donkeys that don't join the posse on adventures. Further discussion revealed that requiring corruption rolls for donkeys means the passage of time for corruption is formally defined (Travel Hazards + Town Visit + Adventure = enough elapsed time for a corruption check) and it should also be required for heroes absent from the posse - eg. if the donkeys have to make 3 corruption checks for three missed adventures, so should the heroes that sat out of those three adventures. Alternate heroes that never go on adventures can be used to stash items just like Jee's 1000 donkey example, so making this change breaks/requires clarification of the existing corruption rules to curb an abuse that could be corrected by other solutions that don't impact the existing corruption rules.

Are allies supposed to act as "banks" to circumvent Travel Hazards and Town Events that result in the loss of Darkstone or items?

Since Allies don't participate in Travel/Town in any way, what's to stop the posse from dumping Dark Stone and Gear onto them pre-Travel or in Town (at the Start of a Day as per the FAQ) in order to protect them from things that threaten their stuff (Harried by Hellbats, Void Hound Ambush, the River wading one, robbery at the Camp Site, the Corrupt Sheriff End-of-Day Event, etc)?

Removing pitfalls like this has a cascading effect on the game in terms of removing variety and interesting choices (and therefore gameplay); if you don't need to worry about the safety of your Items during Travel/Town, many Items and mechanics designed to help with this become far less useful. For instance, the Ornate Case (which you can buy at the Street Market for $1,250) protects a single Dark Stone Item. For 3x the cost you can protect all of them AND have an awesome Mule. This situation also seems to undermine the power of Travel Hazard avoidance abilities, as a big part of their allure is that they can be used to avoid the results that threaten your Gear and Darkstone. While it's true that Allies are not invincible (they can succumb to surprise Corruption), they're far more likely to make it through Travel/Town with no adverse effects than a Hero is.

For reference, the type of Mule mentioned above has 32 Health, 20 Sanity, 4+ Def, 3+ Will, and Corruption Resistance 5. I've met Marshals that are easier to kill; that Mule isn't going anywhere, especially not during Travel/Town.

If you stop paying a Henchman's Hire Fee, can you resume paying him on later Adventures or does he vanish the moment you let him go?

My guess is that the henchman goes away (they found a job elsewhere).

Can Heroes sell items belonging to their Allies while in Town?

The Western Allies specifically mention carrying side bag tokens, but the Forbidden Fortress allies do not. Does this mean they can't carry side bag tokens. What about Ashigaru?

Items

Is there any difference between assigning items and equipping them? It makes a difference for the Scout Bag (stored items can't be equipped) and the activation phase of the hero's turn.

Items like rings, amulets, void crystals, and tombstone chests don't have hand or clothing slots; so that might mean they could be used while still inside the scout bag. If items have to be equipped during the activation phase, then trading a canteen to a hero that's already activated this turn means they can't drink from it until their next activation.

Marks provide a damage bonus against enemies with specific keywords. If a mark is applied to a ranged weapon, does the weapon have to be used in the attack for the hero to benefit from it? Does the bonus apply to all the hero's hits, and if not, why is this different from applying the mark to a clothing item worn by the hero?

It seems like the relevant difference is whether the item with the mark is equipped or not. So a hero with a one-handed ranged weapon and a one-handed melee weapon, could still benefit from the mark when making a Combat attack since the ranged weapon is equipped. If both of the hero's hands are equipped with melee weapon(s), then the ranged item isn't equipped and they don't benefit from the mark.

Are special bullets completely used up the first time a hero changes their ammunition during the adventure, or can the hero switch back to it later during the same Adventure?

Can a rope - which adds +2 dice to a single skill check - be used to exceed the maximum skill limit of 6, meaning a hero would get to roll 7 or 8 dice on a skill check?

Can the hero chuck dynamite into a field of Land Mine to set them off?

If the hero has an item or ability that allows them to use a specific number for their movement roll, does it trigger effects that rely on a specific movement die roll?

For example, the Fire Parasite damages the hero on a roll of 6 and Adventuring Boots allows the hero to spend a Grit to treat their movement like they rolled a 6 on the movement die.

The Plasma Torch is Keyword Hand Weapon, but doesn't have a Hand Icon. Is this a intended?

Are Side-bag tokens considered Items? There are some places in the game that indicate that they are and some places that indicate the opposite.

Sidebag tokens are listed in Town under "Buy Items", but many effects that require you to discard items excluded sidebag tokens.

Are heroes allowed to use any healing or damage prevention sidebag tokens in their possession on another hero (Anti-rads, Exotic Herbs)? Do they follow the same rules as whiskey and bandages?

How does the Teleportation and Shadows Bracelets work in a Town Adventure? Can a building be entered or the roof accessed directly by teleporting through a wall?

Do you treat the figure teleporting the same as a flying model? Can they go through walls/windows (unlike a Flying model), either surrounding a building or on the interior of a map tile?

Does Swamp Fungus have the keyword Fungus, making it susceptible to all Blasted Lands references to the fungus keyword?

Could a hero with a third hand mutation and an Outlaw's Gun Belt wield three pistols and avoid the dual-wielding (no critical hits) penalty? How about a bandito with the Twin Guns upgrade with or without the Outlaw's Gun Belt?

Is the vortex grenade treated like an explosive for enemies that are immune to explosives?

The Free Attack rules are silent regarding Ranged Free Attack items. Does that mean a hero could apply Ranged Attack bonuses to the Ranged Free Attack?

Do the rules for Free Attack Combat items mean "Combat Bonus or [Combat] Modifiers that normally effect the Hero's normal Melee Attacks" (eg - only things that modify the Combat stat, other modifiers like damage are okay?)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZ66wHRhe2U

Does Scroll of Flames hit an XL figure multiple times if the continuous line of hellfire markers passes through the multiple spaces the XL figure occupies?

How does the Bone Saw interact with massive enemy figures like the Sand Kraken for critical and normal hits?

Can multiple Flash Powders be used on the same Fight Round to stack the initiative penalties?

Can the Black Fang Hatchet's special ability be used more than once per turn, and if so, more than once per Hit?

Can the Amulet of Balorn be used more than once per turn?

Can a hero carry and use more than one pick axe to increase the amount of Darkstone they find?

Some character builds rely on Darkstone to fuel Gear, Artifacts, or Abilities, so this question is important for those players.

Can Darkstone stored in a Tomb Chest be used to power Gear, Artifacts, and skills that require the consumption of Darkstone? If not, can Darkstone be removed from the chest during a fight or between fight rounds?

Adventures

How should instructions to close an open exit/door work on fixed map scenarios in the Mines, Derelict Ship, etc?

If an Encounter Card, Adventure rule, etc. adds a clue icon to the next Exploration Token revealed, what happens if the next revealed Exploration Token already has a clue icon? Are there now two clue icons on the token? Could the clue icon still be added if the posse gets to choose or cancel an Exploration Token and select another Exploration Token instead?

I suspect the bonus icon in lost if the Token already has an icon, and players add the icon to whatever Exploration Token they wind out encountering.

Does a Depth Event (doubles) count as a failure to "Hold Back the Darkness" if it's lower than the Depth Track marker result; for example, rolling double 2's when a 7 was needed? Many game effects and some Adventures key off of a failed Hold Back the Darkness roll.

The rulebook wording "... even if it would have normally failed, instead ..." implies that depth events don't count as a failure. This makes certain Items/Effects better/worse depending, since many things trigger off of a Hold Back the Darkness fail. There are Missions that make it clear that Depth Events DO count as a failure; so that's implies they don't normally count as failures.

Do enemies spawned by an ambush result (Darkness card, Rolling double 1's on the Hold Back the Darkness roll) try to escape the mines like the enemies generated from the spawn points during the "Holding the Bridge" mission?

I'd say no because the enemies were attracted to the posse for a specific reason, that's why they're attacking instead of fleeing.

Official Answer: Monsters which start in an ambush must appear through the portals. Ancient Horrors will concentrate on trying to kill the heroes instead of escaping.

Will ranged or shootout attackers still perform a ranged attack against the posse if they elect to flee the mines during the "Holding the Bridge" Adventure?

What is the correct procedure for reconciling the Void Sorcerer's abilities with the rules for "Holding the Bridge" where the enemies are trying to escape the mines?

The rules for that mission say the Enemies only care about the Heroes if they're within 2 spaces of them at the Start of their Activation AND they roll a 1/2 on a D6. If they don't care, and they run, and they have an Attack/Ranged Attack, then they use it against a Random Hero in Range/LOS. But Void Sorcerers only have a Ranged Attack half the time (due to another roll made at the Start of their Activation). What is the proper way to reconcile this? Do you instead roll for Spell/Ranged-Attack after the Void Sorcerer has moved towards the exit, rather than at the Start of its Activation, if it choses to ignore Heroes?

Will an enemy cut-off from escape during the "Hold the Bridge" Adventure move towards a hero to attack if it means moving further way from the mine entrance?

Inspector Jee poses an AI problem worthy of an Issac Asimov short story...

There are many times when the game instructs you to move Enemies "along the shortest route" to something. What happens if the Enemy is completely cut off from that and they're already as close as they can be? This matters in missions like "Holdthe Bridge" where if an Enemy is prevented from moving it's full move by a Hero it will go Berserk and gain extra combat when it Attacks. But there are situations when this is easily compromised by savvy Hero placement. For instance, imagine all of the following statements are true:

- the Enemy will try to head for the exit
- the Enemy cannot make progress toward that goal because it is blocked off completely by other Models
- the Enemy will gain no ground towards that goal by moving at all (it is already as close as it can relative to the spaces it CAN move to)
- the Enemy isn't currently next to any Heroes
- the Enemy could legally move to a Hero and Attack (despite its final destination placing it further away from its goal)

RAW, that Enemy just sits there and does nothing because it wants to get closer, can't, and isn't next to any Heroes. Is this intended?

How do exploration token redraws work in the Dark Altar Mission that uses 3 finite stacks of Exploration Tokens placed on the World Cards?

Unlike in other Missions that use this mechanic, there is no guaranteed clue in each stack - by design - and so the standard caveat about how those abilities behave may not apply ("anything which redraws the final token instead adds a clue to it"). In fact, it is entirely possible that the use of these abilities in this Mission will render it impossible to win, either in situations where there are only 2 clues among all 3 stacks OR simply because your re-draw was huge - like 3 choose 1 - and all 3 were clues.

Traveling

Can the telescope, "Happy Trails", or "Don't Make Him Angry" be used to cancel another player's travel hazard, even if the owner isn't part of the encounter?

Which hero is considered to own a travel hazard generated by an external event like losing a mission?

My posse always used random assignment via a die roll; but I guess there are other possibilities.

Can the Mysterious Stranger result (66) be cancelled or ignored by the stagecoach, telescope, or Trederran stallion?

The answer seems obvious to me, but some people want to cheat Mr. Scratch out of a totally voluntary deal like Homer Simpson and the Soul Donut.

If a player makes a deal with the shiny demon (Travel Hazard #66) to acquire an upgrade from the upgrade chart where they don't have the upgrade that comes before it, can the shiny demon upgrade be used to select the next upgrade on the chart when leveling up?

Example - the hero has the first upgrade on the chart and makes a deal with the shiny demon to select the third upgrade. Later when the hero levels up, they want to select the fourth upgrade.

Town

Can heroes continue to stay in town if both the Hotel and Camp Site unavailable?

Some people will argue you can sleep in the corner of the saloon, use a pew in the Church, etc.

In missions where the Posse must defend the board against endless waves of Enemies, do you still roll at the End of the Turn for Spawn Points that have "Enemies Approaching" markers already on them (which are about to be replaced with actual Enemies), effectively giving you the chance of back-to-back spawns from the same point?

What if one of the newly spawned Enemies is a Void Sorcerer, and rolls to cast a spell from off the board (instead of moving in as per Shootout)? Can it cast the spell or does it's first Activation HAVE to be spell-less so that it can move on to the board?

If a Hell Cannon shows up in the "Town Overrun" Town Mission, will the wooden walls of the buildings stop a cannon ball's Travel Path, or will it keep going right through the wooden wall?

Official Answer: A cannonball will jump right through the wooden walls of a building, so there's no cover advantage.

Can you wait until you see what town you're arriving at before you use the Hair Grease? If so, do you do so before or after the actual buildings are revealed?

Why does the Sheriff's office bounty exclude elite abilities that raise the enemy's health from the reward calculation, but the Frontier Outpost bounty doesn't have this restriction?

Except where specified, are Town Locations Events restricted to the hero that rolled the event, even if additional members of the posse are present at the location? Would price increases/decreases from a location event apply to all members of the posse visiting that day?

This is an older question that's largely been decided, but I've seen it come up when new players are first introduced to the game, so I'll ask it. Remember, Jason Hill is the final word on whether something is FAQ-worthy.

The Frontier Town Daily Events Market Prices Up and Market Prices Down say "All Prices." Does this include Gambling Buy-ins, the Hotel, and other "cost to do stuff" that isn't related to the buying of items or side-bag tokens?

Does the Mob Riot Frontier Town Daily Event affect the Camp Site and Hotel?

Is Unwanted Attention generated by winning at gambling at locations besides the Gambling Hall or Saloon - for example, the Street Market or Barter Town locations?

Locations like the Saloon or Gambling Hall allow opportunities to gamble several times during the same visit. Is Unwanted Attention generated by a single win or a net gain from all gambling activities?

Winning at the Saloon or Gambling Hall generates Unwanted Attention at the end of the visit. Winning more than $500 gambling causes an Unwanted Attention roll at the end of the visit. Does the conflicting "end of visit" triggers mean the hero can roll for the gambling winnings first before applying the extra Unwanted Attention token?

This allows the hero to avoid the impact of that extra token on the current day.

Can the Vision Quest be attempted once-per-day multiple times during a Town Stay to grind for XP even if the first Vision Quest was already successful?

The Swordsmith in Forbidden Fortress can attach Dark Stone Inlays and Dark Stone Grips to Bows. Was this meant to be an errata for Shadows of Brimstone? Does this mean the Blacksmith in Shadows of Brimstone can modify bows too?

Is the wording for Darkstone Shot in Forbidden Fortress meant to be errata for Darkstone Bullets in Shadows of Brimstone?

Was it intended to allow the Dark Stone Shaman (keyword Magik hero) to learn Elemental Magik at the Village Market through Arcane Research? If so, do they need to acquire Mana Tokens in order to cast them or can they use their Magik Tokens instead? What if the Shaman had an Elemental Kimono?

Do the restrictions that prevent Law/Outlaw Heroes from visiting the Smuggler's Den/Sheriff's Office, respectively, apply to Items in each Location's non-restricted Area? The Official FAQ seems to indicate that it might the case.

Official Answer: Visitation restrictions on entire town locations impose a restriction on all items available for purchase from that location. Note, that side bag tokens are not items, so side bag tokens are okay.

For example: Can an Outlaw use/equip the Duelist's Gun Belt if a non-Outlaw Hero goes and buys it for him? Can a U.S. Marshal use Inferno Shot if a non-Law Hero goes and buys it for him? These items are not in the their respective Locations' restricted Areas, but do dwell in Locations with global restrictions.

More Examples: Can a Law Hero use Items gained at the Black Market or drink any Tequila bought onsite (as long as a non-Law Hero procures them)? If the Law Hero can't drink the tequila, how should players track Tequila found on Gear cards? Could an Outlaw use a Wanted Poster bought by a Lawman? Can a U.S. Marshal use Hell Bullets bought from the Smuggler's Den by another Hero? If not, can he still use Hell Bullets found in the Mine Artifacts deck?

Statuses

Some Injuries, Madnesses, and statuses like "Down a Dark Road" or "Conversion" apply/are lost when specific town locations are visited. Is the list of locations expanded to include similar locations that thematically fit, but weren't specified?

Bleeding Injury applies a -1 penalty to healing attempts at the Doc's Office, but now there's a Doc's Tent, Smuggler's Den Back Alley Doc, and a Mutant Surgeon.

Madnesses can be cured at the Church, Church Tent, and Indian Trading Post.

Conversion can be lost at the Saloon, but now there's a Gambling Hall. Is Conversion at risk if the character is exposed to the Mutant Saloon Location Event (Gain a tequila token, option to see a Mutant Saloon Girl show)?

Does the Bandito's Cunnin' Plan free upgrade result (12) apply to just the Frontier Outpost Bank or does it work with other robbery-related Town Events?

Can an outlaw turn in a wanted poster since it doesn't have the "Bounty" keyword?

I saw this in the forums and it seems like an oversight in the rules; but maybe the intent was to allow bad people to hunt other bad people.

The FAQ says multiple-instances of the same posse wide effect don't stack if multiple heroes suffer from the effect. Does this rule also apply if a single Hero is suffering from two instances of the same effect, gained by independently?

For example, a hero has two travel hazards and encounters the Blood Moon twice. Are two Growing Dread cards encountered per Depth Event during the next adventure?

Attributes and Attribute Checks

Hero Abilities

Note for Flying Frog: Excellent summary by Inspector Jee of the Gambler here.

Are the 8 Core Set Hero Classes going to have the "2" result on their Free Upgrade Charts updated to be more like all of the other classes' versions?

The Core Set Classes' version of Vendetta is thematically cool but it's far and away the worst thing you can roll on that Chart, mechanically, and it's probably one of the worst upgrades in the game period. This feels pretty rough, since:

a) you can't alter the results of that roll in any way
b) you only get 7 of them throughout the life of the Hero
c) XP becomes useless at max Level, and
d) it competes with the best Upgrades in the game (like +1 Skills/Move/Grit/Init/Side-Bag capacity/CR).

Not only that, but it gets worse as you obtain more content for the game since the Ability is Enemy-Type (not Enemy Keyword) based, and a larger variety of Enemies means less chance that your Vendetta shows up. With my collection, you could obtain the Vendetta at Hero Level 2 and easily see less than 500 XP from it by Hero Level 8. To put that in perspective, my brother's U.S. Marshal got 410 XP from a single Attack against a Sand Kraken last night. Think of what you could have done with +1 Cunning during those seven Levels. Or +1 Max Grit. Hell, +1 Initiative might net you that in 1-3 Missions depending on how fast you are relative to the other killing machines in your posse.

If a Wiley or Rage Orphan has the Spirit Snake buff, can they use it at the Start of the Adventure to gain a Revive Token from the Orphan Upgrade Need for Vengeance? If so, would this Token persist for the entire Adventure?

Do the missing starting item rules apply to the Orphan's chosen classes - for example, a prospector Orphan can always buy a heavy pick axe?

Are the Wounds generated from Call Your Shot affected by +dmg to Hits and/or Attacks? Can this Upgrade effect Melee Attacks?

How is the Saloon Girl's Acrobatic Dodge and the Dark Stone Shaman's Buffalo Charge resolved when their movement ends on a space occupied by another figure?

Does it make a difference if the enemy figure on the final space is killed by the manueuver?

Does Rapid Shot work with Three-Handed Guns?

Does the Samurai's Battle Tactic Dancing Dragon ignore escape tests when jumping from enemy to enemy?

Official Answer: No escape tests are required when using Dancing Dragon.

One of the Samuari's Battle Tactic Weeping Blade improvements is made obsolete by the official FAQ. As worded, the improvement implies that bonuses to critical hits don't apply to opponents immune to critical hits, and improved Weeping Blade addresses the critical hit limitation. The official FAQ's baseline revision for critical hits and "immune to critical hits" replicates the Weeping Blade improvement, making the existing Weeping Blade text obsolete. What should Samurais do with the redundant Weeping Blade text?

Does the Gambler recover their fortune when they level up similar to how heroes fully heal and recover a grit?

Gamblers start adventures and town with full fortune, so wondering if that trait also resets.

Can the Rancher upgrade Refinement also be used on bows?

Is it correct that the Rancher's Home Remedies starting upgrade allows them to use it during the Town or Travel phases of the game?

Does the Cowboy's "Who Wants to Live Forever" upgrade really grant 2 Shots/Combat per Horror Hit, or is it a typo? Does the maximum limit of 3 refer to the total bonus Shots/Combat or the number of instances, eg 2 Shots / Hit x 3 Hits = 6 Shots?

Since the Orphan's discovery rolls are grittable, does this mean the Gambler can use their abilities (Cheat, Tip the Scales) to assist the Orphan in growing up quickly?

Does an Outlaw rolling double 1's for Duck-and-Cover get zero, one, or two Grit?

I suspect it's one, but I have to ask.

The Marshall's "Been Around" upgrade states that when they take 1 or more Sanity Damage, they take 1 fewer damage. Is this per enemy model, group of enemies, all enemies, or per type (Fear/Terror/Unspeakable Terror) when the Marshall activates and takes horror hits?

Does a Jargano Native with the Tribal Warrior upgrade gain a bonus hit point per arrow because the arrows have the tribal keyword?

Can a Dragon Sorcerer with a conjured Earth Blade give it to another hero? The wording (for you to use) is unclear whether it's restricted to the sorcerer, or if it's stating the conjuration is no different from any other item in the game.

When the Sorcerer's melee ability is "increased to 4+", is it supposed to be a bonus to attack rolls (add +1) or is the range value altered to 4 or better? Some items like Wooden Blade and some spells like Earth Blade change the range to 4+, and it's unclear whether they should stack or not for the sorcerer.

Why is the Samurai upgrade Shoulder-to-Shoulder used during the Samurai's activation and not the start of the turn? It doesn't seem very useful because many enemies will have already activated before the Samurai, which means the Samurai loses out on the Defense bonus.

Can a Kitsune with the Elemental Spirit upgrade perform Arcane Research in the Village Market to learn spells outside of the element belonging to their spirit, for example, a fire fox learning how to cast water spells?

Can the Ninja's Smoke Bomb or Shadow Dodge stack with Dance of Death's bonus of +1 Combat for each 4 spaces moved? Does involuntary movement from enemy attacks count for Dance of Death's combat bonus?

The rules only require keyword Magick and Mana, which the kitsune has.

Enemies

How are Ranged Enemies that don't have Shootout, Snapfire, Immobile, or Assault placed in Ambush?

There is a conspicuous lack of Ambush placement rules when it comes to Ranged Enemies without any of the above Abilities. Because of this, the RAW lumps them in with normal Melee Enemies, by omission. It seems weird that a Hell Cannon (Initiative 1) would want to start anywhere near the Heroes, much less right on top of them. While it's true that the Grape Shot does pretty gnarly damage to adjacent Heroes, the chances of the Cannon getting a chance to use it - even at Init 3 due to Ambush - is low, especially if it conveniently plunks itself down in range of every single Attack the Posse can throw at it. The same seems true for any Enemy that is entirely Ranged, but doesn't have one of the aforementioned Abilities.

Can flying monsters like the Hellbat or Ancient One or burrowing monsters like Terralisk, Sand Crabs, or Tentacles move past Void Vortexes to attack members of the posse?

Void Hounds normally appear next to the posse. How are they handled for missions like "Holding the Bridge" when enemies are required to appear through spawn points?

I believe the mission rules should override the enemy behavior and the void hounds should appear at the spawn points (something is interfering with their abilities, maybe that's why the void hounds are trying to flee the mines.)

Why do the Formation rules mention that their special "all models are adjacent" placement rules remain in effect even when Ambushing? Ambushing Shootout Enemies aren't normally placed in a checkerboard pattern, so why does this clarification exist? Are Ambushing Shootout Enemies who don't have Formation supposed to be placed in the checkerboard pattern?

Some cards provide an adjective modifier to the Enemy record sheet, for example, "Young" Swamp Raptors. How does the adjective adjustment scale for the brutal versions of the Enemy, for example, "Young" Brutal Swamp Raptors?

NOTE: The answer to this question might also apply to calculating XP for Brutal versions of Otherworld threats as posed in the Other Worlds section below.

Does the warlord in a Kraken born warband get to use their initiative for combat even though they didn't start with the "Desert Raiders" ability?

I'd say no, since they didn't start with the Desert Raider ability.

Some Adventures and Event cards provide extra elite abilities to the drawn Threat card. Do the extra elite abilities cascade to any additional Threat cards drawn, for example, an Epic Threat that specifies a Goliath and a Low Threat card?

I saw this in the forums, so I'll ask it here. The answer seems obvious (Yes), but there's always the possibility the opposite is true.

Can enemies be placed on spaces with broken grates during setup?

Grates have qualities resembling enemies or terrain depending on the context.

The Living Statute's To-Hit rolls of 6+ are Grab hits which ignore Defense and cause the target to be picked up and hurled at another Hero within Line of Sight (LOS). What happens when there is no other Hero in LOS?

What kind of Hits does the Fallen Shogun's Brutal Blade ability do to Heroes adjacent to the Target? Are they Combat Hits or regular 1-damage Hits?

Do heroes fighting Bone Eaters get an Exploration Phase when Bone Eaters are the only enemy on the board?

Bone Eaters use a "noise" mechanic to decide if and who they attack. The enemy record sheet says that if they're the only enemy on the board, the Heroes are allowed to explore/scavenge during the fight. Do the heroes also get an Exploration Phase, which is normally skipped during a fight, OR are the heroes basically limited to opening only those doors that were unexplored at the start of the fight since face down Exploration Tokens prevent a hero from exploring further?

Does brutal Belial's Escape Value for "There is No Escape" prevent heroes from moving away if the hero uses an ability like Dancing Dragon which doesn't require an escape roll?

Other Worlds

Does the Otherworld Threat Deck override the instructions on Enemy and Event cards that specify drawing a Threat Deck card?

This seems odd for Flesh Stalkers which are actively choosing their victims. The Otherworld the Flesh Stalker is encountered in becomes more important than the enemy's normal behavior.

What happens if you have a Teleporter Accident (teleporting the whole posse to a random World) during the Encounter Teleportation Pad on the Derelict Ship during the Derelict Ship mission Time's Echo? No Gates are allowed in that mission due to the special circumstances of the Past/Present mechanic, so what happens in this special case?

Are you expected to find a Gate back to the Vostros if the Teleporter Pad accident happens in Mission #5 or #6 of the Derelict Ship and, if you don't, will you automatically fail the Mission? Or is there another answer to what should happen in those admittedly rare cases?

How does Otherworld Threat XP work for brutal enemies? Some threats change the enemies base XP value, while others add an increase. It's not clear how the base value change scales for brutal enemies.

I always calculated the difference between the normal enemy and the Other World threat value and used the same delta for the brutal enemies. Maybe that would work as a solution?

Sometimes there's a discrepancy between the Otherworld Threat XP value of brutal enemies and the default brutal enemy cards, and the Otherworld Threat is worth less XP than the standard Brutal Enemy. Was this by-design?

Bogbats, Lavabats, Snow Terrors, Souls of the Damned, and Trench Spiders are worth the same whether Brutal or not, their regular XP is the same as the Brutal XP of their Mine counterparts, except Snow Terrors (30 XP to 10/20 XP), and Souls of the Damned (25 XP to 20/30 XP), while Swamp Slashers have no XP bonus over normal Slashers.

What happens to the posse's transportation when they spend time in Otherworld Towns like the Blasted Lands? Can the posse take their horses and stagecoaches with them to the Otherworld? If not, can the posse acquire transportation for use in the Otherworld without losing their existing transportation?

Does the (optional rule) Advanced Encounter Card still happen when the mission's final fight is revealed, even if the instructions tell the posse to ignore any Encounters or Attacks revealed by the Exploration token?

The Wasteland Barter Town can only be visited if the heroes complete their Adventure in the Blasted Wastes. Do all the heroes need to be present in the Blasted Wastes to take advantage of it? What if there are no heroes in the Blasted Wastes because the final encounter spilled back into the mines?

Infinite Loops, Broken Combos, and Exploits

The Gambler High Roller starting Upgrade (Whenever you recover a Grit, you may also recover a Fortune Token) when combined with the Blow for Luck Upgrade (Spend 1 Grit to recover 1 Fortune or vice-versa).

Errors

Is the check for the Sentient Chains (Cynder) encounter supposed to be identical to the Liquid Darkstone encounter card?

The card reads like a cut-and-paste error:

Cunning 5+
If passed gain D3 darkstone
If failed, you slip and fall into the burning lava lake.

Shouldn't the corrupt marshals in the "Hang'em High" mission activate if they're damaged by Shockwave, Smite, or Cleasing Fire? Sermons don't count as attacks, but the marshals are still taking damage.

Should an enemy's Flight ability follow the same rules as the Shaman's Eagle Flight?

The Shaman's rules are more detailed, covering Pits and Terrain while the enemy's rules for Pits are only presented in Adventure sets featuring pits.

Should the Cowboy’s Trick Shot be reworded to remove “Hit from that Gun” like Through-Shot was?

Per Inspector Jee:

There is - however - one mechanic in this vein that I believe still warrants attention: how +Damage interacts with effects that say they generate "Hits with the same [Gun|Hand Weapon]". To my knowledge, there is only one left in the game (the other being pre-errata Through-Shot) and that is the Cowboy Starting Upgrade, Trick Shooting. It says that when you assign a Hit from a Gun, you can spend a Grit to do D3 extra Hits with the same Gun to other Enemies in a chain starting from the Target. If a Cowboy attacks with a Repeating Rifle - which has +1 Damage native, listed on the Gear Card - and I use Trick Shooting, do the extra Hits get that +1 Damage (or any other +Damage)? A strict reading of the FAQ says "no, because you didn't roll a To-Hit roll for each of those extra Hits". This answer is confusing tho, because why have the extra text denoting that these Hits are from the same Gun if they're not gonna be treated as such? There are edge cases where the source Gun matters for things other than +Damage, but it's worth asking what the intent here is. Perhaps Trick Shooting is slated for a Through-Shot-esque errata and will have that wording stripped from it to avoid confusion.

Should any of the following items have a limit of 1 per hero?

Rope (Gear): It's identical to the rope offered in the FOFO Village Market.

Preacher's Holy Book (Starting Item): It's identical to the one in the Church. Can the Preacher really have two books?

Looking Glass (Gear): Gain 1 Grit each when you pass a Cunning Test

Pipe (Gear): Gain 1 Grit each when you pass a Lore test

Jack of Hearts (Gear): Add $25 each when you draw Nothing Here Scavenge card

Butcher's Blade (Street Market): 1 is good, so 2 is better.

Void Catcher (Mine Artifact): Carry multiples for 1 Grit per Void Catcher each time a Darkness card is played.

Hellfire Ring (Mine Artifact) and Ring of Oro'sia (Cynder Artifact): Have a Preacher carry 2 of each to beef up his Shockwave and Cleansing Fire Sermons.

Drone Control Box (Derelict Artifact): -2 Defence each to Constructs.

Authority of O'Tar (Targa Artifact): +1 Damage while in an Otherworld would stack nicely.
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Boiko Boichev
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Couple of questions:

1) If a hero has both endurance and armor, which do they apply first to each separate hit - do you limit the damage from "endurance" first and roll for every point of damage left or do you roll armor for the whole damage for each hit and apply endurance then. In the latter scenario this would mean you need to roll armor for every single hit you receive and can't roll them all at once! This would slow down the game tremendously!

On a related note how do you handle items and abilities that let you negate all damage from "a single source"?

2) Is each separate enemy model counted as a separate source?

The current interpretation is that each is a separate source. If so then ...

3) Since all hits from multiple enemies from the same type are rolled together how can we use an item that lets us negate damage from a single source? i.e. how do we determine which how may of the successful hits came from one particular source so we can cancel only them? Or should we decide before hand that we want to use that ability and roll each attack from from each enemy separately? If that is the case then you can't negate damage from a single source when you are attacked by multiple enemies at once unless once you have rolled all the attacks at once

4) Sometime you get a some special bonuses and effects to your critical hits (for instance they might do +1 damage). If an enemy is immune to critical hits, do they negate all these extra effects or only the general "ignore defense" effect?

5) Sometimes you will get modifications to enemies for instance on otherworld threat cards there you will get an upgraded XP value. But there is never an indication about what if the enemy is brutal. There might even be situations when the brutal side of the enemy is worth less XP than the modified version of the normal side. So how do we calculate XP in those instance.
 
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Jee Fu
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Regressor wrote:
Couple of questions:

1) If a hero has both endurance and armor, which do they apply first to each separate hit - do you limit the damage from "endurance" first and roll for every point of damage left or do you roll armor for the whole damage for each hit and apply endurance then. In the latter scenario this would mean you need to roll armor for every single hit you receive and can't roll them all at once! This would slow down the game tremendously!
Armor and Spirit Armor only come into play once you know the final total amount of Damage/Sanity Damage that you will be taking from a specific event (like a set of Hits including modifications, or 1 Hit, or a thing which does Wounds ignoring Defense, etc). If you're Hero has Endurance, this would therefore apply before Armor. You DO roll Armor for all the damage you take from every single Hit that's doing damage, but there's no reason you can't roll them all at once - why do you think this is the case? You roll Defense against all Hits from the same Enemy Group's Attack (or for all Hits from the same non-attack, wounding event), at once. Once you have the total amount of damage you're taking (after all other modifications - extra dmg from Parasites, Endurance, mutations, etc), then you roll 1 die per point of Damage you're about to take - all at once - for your Armor.

This order of operations does appear in the rules, but it's fragmented and hard to put together so I agree with the implication that an officially consolidated order would be helpful.

Regressor wrote:

On a related note how do you handle items and abilities that let you negate all damage from "a single source"?

2) Is each separate enemy model counted as a separate source?
Yes, each Enemy is a separate source. And also each non-attack "event" that does Damage/Sanity Damage to you - like a Darkness Card, or an Enemy's special ability that triggers and happens to deal damage (but not Enemy abilities that modify attack-based damage, those are just lumped in with the Attack).

Regressor wrote:

The current interpretation is that each is a separate source. If so then ...

3) Since all hits from multiple enemies from the same type are rolled together how can we use an item that lets us negate damage from a single source? i.e. how do we determine which how may of the successful hits came from one particular source so we can cancel only them? Or should we decide before hand that we want to use that ability and roll each attack from from each enemy separately? If that is the case then you can't negate damage from a single source when you are attacked by multiple enemies at once unless once you have rolled all the attacks at once
In situations where your Heroes have abilities that do this kind of thing (and you're fairly certain you might use them), you should use different colored dice for different Enemies in the same Group. That way you can still roll all the attacks at once (and the Defenses) for the whole Enemy Group, but the colors will tell you the individuals rolls so that that once Defense is rolled you can tell which Enemy is doing what damage, in total. And then you can decide which one the Amulet of Kotak is going to block and ignore all attack damage stemming from that color of dice.

You can also use this trick if the Enemy has special On-Hit mechanics for rolling 6's or some such. You need to make sure you know which of you Defense rolls are saving vs the Enemy "Uber" Rolls and which are just saving against normal rolls. And again, different colored dice are how you do it.

If you don't have lots of different colors of dice, you can either buy some for dirt cheap (pretty much anywhere) OR you can simply roll your saves vs. one Enemy at a time per Group, but for the sake of game mechanics you call it one giant roll so you can grit ALL the failures at the end. This is perfectly legal, as long as you don't use any abilities or make any decisions until you're done rolling ALL the saves for the whole Enemy Group.

Regressor wrote:

4) Sometime you get a some special bonuses and effects to your critical hits (for instance they might do +1 damage). If an enemy is immune to critical hits, do they negate all these extra effects or only the general "ignore defense" effect?
The Rule Book is clear on this one. It says that Enemies that are Immune to Critical Hits regard them as regular Hits. This means that effects that modify Crits don't apply, because they're aren't Crits. If you wanna get technical, this also means that 6s don't actually count as a Critical Hits until you assign them to an Enemy who is vulnerable to them. Once you do, all Crit-based bonuses immediately apply.

However, there IS a question in the FAQ regarding what to do in a Tough situation regarding rolls that normally count as misses, but because of special circumstances (like Hell Bullets) now count as Critical Hits. Do they go back to being misses? Do they now count as Hits?

Regressor wrote:

5) Sometimes you will get modifications to enemies for instance on otherworld threat cards there you will get an upgraded XP value. But there is never an indication about what if the enemy is brutal. There might even be situations when the brutal side of the enemy is worth less XP than the modified version of the normal side. So how do we calculate XP in those instance.
This is a great question. I would like to know the answer to this as well.

- Jee
 
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Adria D
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Regressor wrote:
Couple of questions:

1) If a hero has both endurance and armor, which do they apply first to each separate hit - do you limit the damage from "endurance" first and roll for every point of damage left or do you roll armor for the whole damage for each hit and apply endurance then. In the latter scenario this would mean you need to roll armor for every single hit you receive and can't roll them all at once! This would slow down the game tremendously!

On a related note how do you handle items and abilities that let you negate all damage from "a single source"?

2) Is each separate enemy model counted as a separate source?

The current interpretation is that each is a separate source. If so then ...

3) Since all hits from multiple enemies from the same type are rolled together how can we use an item that lets us negate damage from a single source? i.e. how do we determine which how may of the successful hits came from one particular source so we can cancel only them? Or should we decide before hand that we want to use that ability and roll each attack from from each enemy separately? If that is the case then you can't negate damage from a single source when you are attacked by multiple enemies at once unless once you have rolled all the attacks at once
Sounds like you need some more dice, in different colors.

I don't know the answer for 1 (don't currently have any heroes with Endurance), but if you end up with the latter scenario, use different colored dice for each hit and you can roll them all at once.

Similarly for 3, roll different colored attack dice for each enemy, then roll color-coordinated defense dice. So if you have two Stranglers attacking you, roll red dice for one and white dice for the other. If you get 3 hits from red and 2 hits from white, then you roll 3 red defense dice and 2 white defense dice. If you have armor, you can extend this to armor rolls. Then you can decide if you want to use your damage-canceling item after seeing all your results without having to go through each hit one at a time.
 
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Philip Jelley
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Can a hero carry two identical gear/artefact cards?

This should be yes, but it looks odd if a hero can have two Looking Glasses for +2 Cunning and 2 Grit when he passes a Cunning Test, or unlimited Scout Bags from the Indian Trading Post. Therefore I would say no, except for a pair of pistols.
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Philip Jelley wrote:
Can a hero carry two identical gear/artefact cards?

This should be yes, but it looks odd if a hero can have two Looking Glasses for +2 Cunning and 2 Grit when he passes a Cunning Test, or unlimited Scout Bags from the Indian Trading Post. Therefore I would say no, except for a pair of pistols.

i doubt FFP will detail such item bonuses in the fact and instead rely on people's common sense to decide wether more of a particular item offers a benefit or not.
otherwise they would have to explain almost every item in the game
 
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Autoduelist wrote:
That's a really interesting question. I asked about the scout bag, but I hadn't considered the Looking Glass which has to be found in the Deck. Although it's not stated in the rules (limit 1), I'd argue a second Looking Glass doesn't provide any benefit; I never saw Sherlock Holmes go stereo to make better deductions. My posse has two Looking Glasses assigned to two different heroes.

It might be interesting to compile a list of the most abusive items and get a definitive ruling instead of piece-mealing individual items since we're asking for a "Limit One" descriptor to be applied. Would you be innteresting in doing that Philip or perhaps Jee?

Looking Glass (Gear) gain 1 Grit each when you pass a Lore test

Pipe (Gear) gain 1 Grit each when you pass a Cunning test

Jack of Hearts (Gear) add $25 each when you draw Nothing Here Scavenge card

Scout Bag (Indian Trading Post) carry unlimited, unactivated, weighted gear

Holy Book (Church) Two for +2 Faith and +2 Combat

Butcher's Blade (Street Market) I find this confusing enough without having one in each hand.

Potion (Token) take five for +10 Agility/Shots with Trusty Pistol

Void Catcher (Mine Artifact) 1 Grit each when a Darkness card is played

Hellfire Ring (Mine Artifact) and Ring of Oro'sia (Cynder Artifact), I think I will have two of each for my Preacher to beef up his Shockwave and Cleansing Fire Sermons.

Drone Control Box (Derelict Artifact) -2 Defence each to Constructs.

Authority of O'Tar (Targa Artifact) +1 Damage each.

Deflection Shield (Targa Artifact) two sets of extra armour, admittedly at a cost.
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I agree. This thread is supposed to help Jason track the community's questions, so making it a "living" document works for me. Should we also whack our old comments and discussions that no longer apply when a question is added to the Offical FAQ? We have a whole forum with other posts if we want to archive a discussion forever.

Example: Someone thinks the discussion about X - which was added to the official Flying Frog FAQ - is important enough to preserve, so they open a new forum thread, copy/paste the discussion & replies, and eliminate their post on this thread.
 
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Neil Edmonds
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I've updated the FAQ post to reflect questions that remain unanswered with the 06/22/17 FAQ.
 
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Concerning Damage Modifiers:
FAQ pg 8 wrote:
There is one exception to this restriction which is that any Damage modifiers that are granted to ‘an Attack’ or ‘all of your Attacks’ may be applied to any Damage you cause from a Ranged Attack or Melee Attack (including Dynamite, a Dark Stone Shiv, etc.; but not Splash Damage - see below).
So with Sermons... in particular, Righteous Fury. I'm assuming the above applies even though Righteous Fury says "all of the Hero's Hits do +1 Damage each" rather than "all of the Hero's Attacks".

The main question then is "Do Smite / Shockwave / Cleansing Fire count as Ranged Attacks in regards to benefitting from Righteous Fury? (and other "all attacks are +damage" effects)"

I assume yes. But since the FAQ didn't specifically address Sermons, would be good to confirm.

---

Also I'd like to see this clarified:

Mark of the XXX = +1 Damage to <enemy type>

Does it matter what the mark is attached to? For instance, if you attach it to a Gun, does it only affect the gun? If you attach it to Clothing, does it affect all attacks?
Or does it affect all attacks no matter what you attach it to?
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Hopefully Jee will chime in soon, as he's quite adroit at coming up with exception to the general rule.

I had a chance to ask Jason about dynamite at the pick-up event, and to paraphrase (which means the fault for error could be mine), dynamite benefits from things that apply to "All your Attacks" since it's a ranged attack to toss dynamite. So runes like Mark of the XXX (+1 Damage to XXX) or the priest's bonus against undead is out, but the Saloon Girl's dirty fighting (all your attacks) is in. Jason also cited specific examples mentioning dynamite like the Bandito's ability. Stuff like the Law Man's "Spend a grit to add +3 damage to one of your hits" is out because the dynamite isn't "hitting" the opponents, but the space your opponent is in. I hope this helps. It's the best I've got.

Quote:
Does it matter what the mark is attached to? For instance, if you attach it to a Gun, does it only affect the gun? If you attach it to Clothing, does it affect all attacks?

Or does it affect all attacks no matter what you attach it to?

Obviously, you don't hit someone with your hat, and the rune doesn't say "your hits" or "your attack", so the rune should apply whether it's on a hat or weapon provided the item is equipped; so a Rune applied to hatchet held in an off-hand (but not used) would still help a ranged attack made with a pistol, while a hat with a rune wouldn't provide a benefit if the hat wasn't being worn at the time.
 
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Jee Fu
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soosy wrote:
Concerning Damage Modifiers:
So with Sermons... in particular, Righteous Fury. I'm assuming the above applies even though Righteous Fury says "all of the Hero's Hits do +1 Damage each" rather than "all of the Hero's Attacks".

The main question then is "Do Smite / Shockwave / Cleansing Fire count as Ranged Attacks in regards to benefitting from Righteous Fury? (and other "all attacks are +damage" effects)"

I assume yes. But since the FAQ didn't specifically address Sermons, would be good to confirm.
Sermons aren't Ranged Attacks (or Attacks at all), but they can generate Hits. So Righteous Fury will effect those Sermons, but the +1 to Undead Bonus will not, since it specifies Attacks specifically.


soosy wrote:
Also I'd like to see this clarified:

Mark of the XXX = +1 Damage to <enemy type>

Does it matter what the mark is attached to? For instance, if you attach it to a Gun, does it only affect the gun? If you attach it to Clothing, does it affect all attacks?
Or does it affect all attacks no matter what you attach it to?
This is a good queastion. Technically, if you attach an +dmg Upgrade to a Gun, its only going to make Hits from THAT Gun +1 dmg (and no other Hits), due to how the stats on Guns affect them. This shouldn't be too much of a problem, since there seems to be no advantage to do this over just putting such a Rune or Mark into your Hat. And with the new changes to DS Grips, it's not like you will have extra sockets lying around.

- Jee
 
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You can probably remove the "Immune to Poison" question, as the FAQ says that Poison Conuters have Keyword Poison, so things that make you Immune to effects with Keyword Poison make you immune to gaining those markers, and will remove any markers you currently have at the start of your Activation (this functions exactly like "Immune to Burning Markers", which the rules already describe the mechanics of).

Here are my remaking questions (besides the ones that are still unanswered in the original post):

1) The ruling regarding trading Dark Stone at the end of an Adventure is extremely vague and waaay open to interpretation. Everything else in the FAQ is stated so succinctly and robustly that this one really stands out as creating more questions than it answers.

As written the ruling essentially does nothing, and it doesn't prohibit trading of Dark Stone immediately before the End of Adventure (when Loot is being passed out from the final Fight), and that completely circumvents the point of the ruling (mostly - it is possible that you wouldn't legally be able to trade with another Hero for normal reasons, like not being on the same tile at the end of the Adventure).

So we need more specifics. Can we not trade Dark Stone during Fights? Can we not trade Dark Stone at all? What is the intent here, and how does it translate mechanically? Limiting the trading of Dark Stone in any way during the Adventure has an detrimental effect on classes that use it frequently (like the Shaman, or the Rancher/Marshal, or anyone with certain Targa Tech) because it means their posse is limited in the help they can give them by donating a resource to them.

So should we play it is written? Do we just assume that this ruling is only going to effect Heroes who aren't on the same tile as other Heroes?

2) The Rope says that it "adds +2 Dice to a single Skill Test" - since this doesn't increase your actual Skill above 6 (only the Dice you roll for the test), can this Item (and other effects with the same wording) legally increase the number of Dice you roll for a test beyond 6? Essentially I'm asking if its just the skills that are capped at 6, or is it also the number of dice rolled for a test? Subtle, but important difference.

3) As written, the new Grit rules allow us to Grit the rolls for how much Dark Stone is worth when selling it. Thematically, the game says that you're only rolling for how big the shards are and the price is determined by that. Grit seems inappropriate here, but technically this sounds grittable under the new situation. Is this right?

4) As mentioned above, does putting a +dmg Rune/Mark into a Gun affect only that Gun? If not, why not?

5) According to the ruling about Tough, Hell Bullets turns 1s into Hits+Corrpution again Enemies that are Immune to Crits (and also gains any bonuses that trigger off of Crits). However, I still want to know if a Bandido (or any Hero with a Ranged 5+ to Hit, either baseline or because the value has been modified by ongoing effects) can Crit on a 4+ with the Long Bow (or Raptor Claw). Also, how is this situation affect by effects that limit your To-Hit Range? For example, if I can only Hit an Enemy on a 6+ (for whatever reason), does the Long Bow still generate Crits on a 4, 5, or 6? Does it generate Hits on a 4, 5, or 6 against Enemies immune to Critical Hits, even if my Hero's Ranged Attack value is essentially worse than that?

This is already in the Official Question List, but it should be updated with the specifics regarding To-Hit limiting effects.

More later.

- Jee

P.S. I will shorten my other posts where possible, but I will leave legit answers to questions that were asked who's scope isn't covered by the FAQ - unless the original authors delete those questions.
 
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rope question ADDED
mark question ADDED
critical hit question REVISED
switching ammunition ADDED
Gritting Darkstone sale ADDED


Here's some of my thoughts on the questions being posed:

I'd say the rope can be used on the check since it says "+2 dice" instead of "+2 ability."

The raptor claw is a free attack, so none of the character's abilities come into play. Items do what they say, so if the long bow critical hits on a 4, 5, or 6 that's what the character would do. I'd argue that things which limit an effect come after the effect in question. So if the bandito rolled a 4 and a 6, both hits would be critical hits against a normal enemy. If the enemy can only be critical hit on a roll of 6, then the critical hit rules come into play and the 4 becomes a normal hit. If the enemy can only be hit on a 6, then only the 6 applies, but it's a critical hit.

I think it's more important whether a mark is equipped or not, vs what it's applied to, unless the mark says weapons only. Look at the example of the Snake Fangs Gear card (once per adventure add +3 damage to one of your hits). You can add the fangs to a character's hat and still use the fangs effect even though the hero never attacks with their hat. The same goes for marks.
 
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Autoduelist wrote:
The raptor claw is a free attack, so none of the character's abilities come into play. Items do what they say, so if the long bow critical hits on a 4, 5, or 6 that's what the character would do. I'd argue that things which limit an effect come after the effect in question. So if the bandito rolled a 4 and a 6, both hits would be critical hits against a normal enemy. If the enemy can only be critical hit on a roll of 6, then the critical hit rules come into play and the 4 becomes a normal hit. If the enemy can only be hit on a 6, then only the 6 applies, but it's a critical hit.
But what if that 4 is outside your normal To-Hit range? Is it still a hit then?

In a more general sense, say your hero crits on a 5+. Events have conspired to raise the To-Hit values to 6+ (or even 7+). This could be from event cards, Void Venom, and so on. The rules on those events usually specify that a 6 is still a critical hit. But if you crit on a 5, do 5s also still count as critical hits? Or are they lost because of the increased To-Hit value? If you still get that crit, how does this interact with Tough enemies?
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Quote:
But what if that 4 is outside your normal To-Hit range? Is it still a hit then?

Critical hits are already explained in the new FAQ. If the effect says you critical hit on a 6, but your weapon says you critical hit on a 5, rolls of 5 become a regular hit (or no hit at all if the effect says players must roll a 6).

I added a brand-new question:

A long bow critical hits on a 4, 5, or 6. How does that reconcile with a character that normally hits ranged attacks with a value of 5 or better? Is this effect different from an item granting a free attack which isn't normally subject to a character's abilities and bonuses?
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Inspector Jee wrote:
soosy wrote:
Concerning Damage Modifiers:
So with Sermons... in particular, Righteous Fury. I'm assuming the above applies even though Righteous Fury says "all of the Hero's Hits do +1 Damage each" rather than "all of the Hero's Attacks".

The main question then is "Do Smite / Shockwave / Cleansing Fire count as Ranged Attacks in regards to benefitting from Righteous Fury? (and other "all attacks are +damage" effects)"

I assume yes. But since the FAQ didn't specifically address Sermons, would be good to confirm.
Sermons aren't Ranged Attacks (or Attacks at all), but they can generate Hits. So Righteous Fury will effect those Sermons, but the +1 to Undead Bonus will not, since it specifies Attacks specifically.

Thanks for the response! I guess I would still like to see Sermons clarified though.

I personally would like to see Sermons added to the list of things affected by "all of your Attacks" damage modifiers. It would keep it simple. At this point, I think only Splash damage isn't affected? (Or are there a handful of other things?)


And what exactly qualifies as a "Hit" (in regards to Righteous Fury and other effects that add damage to Hits)?

I find "Hit" to be very nebulous. I would probably define it as "a successful Ranged or Melee To Hit Roll". That would not include Dynamite and other automatic hit effects though.

It seems like FF is trying to move away from "Hit" as a qualifier, as they changed the wording of Through Shot and the Bandido Dynamite ability that used it.

There's only a few bonuses to a generic "Hit" that I know of:
Lawman - You do +2 Damage on any Hits to an Enemy with a higher Initiative.
Lawman - Use 1 Grit to add +3 Damage to one of your Hits. (Limit once per Hit).
Rattlesnake Fangs - Attach to any Item. Oncer per Adventure, you may add +3 Damage to one of your Hits. You are immune to Poison markers. [Law or Outlaw only]
Amulet of Heinghal - Once per Adventure, add an extra D6 Damage to a single Hit.

There are probably others (and Righteous Fury) but most of the time "Hit" is qualified as "Critical Hit" or "Combat Hit" or "Gun Hit".

Sorry to ramble. I guess the main question is... What can cause a "Hit" that isn't also an attack? Only Sermons?
 
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I don't have any cards to refer too, but I recall a Mine or Otherworld Event that says something like "-1 to your to-hit rolls (but rolls of 6 are still criticals)" That's the ultimate expression of some of these critical hit questions, because the card is assuming critical hits only happen on a '6' or higher but the definition of critical hit was extended to rolls below 6. Could somebody give me the name and text of that cards so I can post it to the question? I've already revised it to clearly explain the problem - would a 5 reduced to a 4 still critical hit? It's basically a question of whether the effect is intentionally limiting criticals to 6 or better or it's an unintended side-effect of the development process.


Soosy, I wish I could help you, but the explanation I provided came straight from Jason Hill's mouth about Dynamite at the Wave 2 pickup event: "all your attacks" (because it's a ranged attack to throw dynamite) and effects specifically mentioning dynamite are the ultimate example of bonuses that apply to dynamite. "to your hit" effects don't apply to dynamite because the only thing being hit is the space/ground. General damage effects like marks which say "+1 damage to <keyword>" don't apply to dynamite either because they don't mention the word "attack" on the card.

I see I didn't answer some of your specific questions, so here's my attempt to do so based on what I learned:

Quote:
I find "Hit" to be very nebulous. I would probably define it as "a successful Ranged or Melee To Hit Roll". That would not include Dynamite and other automatic hit effects though.

Close, but not quite. Dynamite does count as a ranged attack, and things that apply to "all your attacks" or "ranged attacks" would apply to dynamite. Things that apply to hits don't apply to dynamite, because the ranged attack isn't hitting the enemy models, it's hitting the space.

Quote:
It seems like FF is trying to move away from "Hit" as a qualifier, as they changed the wording of Through Shot and the Bandido Dynamite ability that used it.

Nope, nothing to do with hits and everything to do with people being confused about the ability. Jason specifically mentioned Through Shot to me (apparently it was confusing people at Flying Frog's demo sessions too.)

Quote:
There's only a few bonuses to a generic "Hit" that I know of:
Lawman - You do +2 Damage on any Hits to an Enemy with a higher Initiative.
Lawman - Use 1 Grit to add +3 Damage to one of your Hits. (Limit once per Hit).
Rattlesnake Fangs - Attach to any Item. Oncer per Adventure, you may add +3 Damage to one of your Hits. You are immune to Poison markers. [Law or Outlaw only]
Amulet of Heinghal - Once per Adventure, add an extra D6 Damage to a single Hit.

This is a good list and very helpful to getting designer questions answered. Sadly none of these would apply to dynamite since the only thing being hit is the space/ground, allowing the damage to apply would be like that D&D comedy sketch about using magic missle to attack the darkness.
 
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Solan wrote:
This is a time-sensitive rules question, so the sooner it can be answered, the better. My Hero is surrounded by Assault enemies. Their initial shots take him down, but he uses a Revive token. Do they still attack in Melee that round? Do they retarget next turn, since they did KO their target, or will they continue to target him?
Revive Tokens' effects happen immediately and replace the actual KO. So yes, you would be up and well in time to defend against the Trederran Saber(s) that had targeting you prior to Token-use.

This is more of a topic for the actual forum, rather than this thread. You should make it a separate topic, and I will move my answer there. We need to keep this place as clean and clipped as possible.

To that end, I have deleted many of the posts Autoduelist mentioned. I left the Fungus one, because I didn't see it in the FAQ yet (maybe I missed it).

In regard to Ranged To Hit values vs Item-granted Hit ranges that are different, one of the main questions is: What effects takes precedence over what? If the Encounter says "only 6+ counts as a Hit and there are no Critical Hits" (Steam Clouds) does the Bow override this? Does Gear beat Encounters? Do Abilites beat Gear? Do Abilities beat Encounters? We might be able to surmise an order of applications, but we cant be sure. The other situation to consider is the Encounters/Abilities that actually gives you a -1 on the To Hit Roll, rather than setting an abnormal threshold for the result. A -1 to the Roll actually reduces the number on the die, rather than changing your To Hit value, and this has different - and easier to deal with - implications. For instance, we can be sure than a Long Bow is only going to hit on a 5+ in that situation, because the de-buff affects the roll itself, rather than the values you're trying to beat. This is great, because it doesn't clash semantically with the wording on the Bow, which deals with latter.

In regard to Marks/Runes in Guns vs. other gear, the basic form of the question is essentially: "do ambiguous modifications to Guns function exactly as if the Gun had that stat listed on its card, or not?" If its the former, then said modifications only apply to Hits from that Gun, regardless of how such an modification would work attached to any other item.

- Jee
 
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I removed a few more of my posts that had become superfluous.

Also, there are some questions still in the original post that have been answered. Or that official answers already exist to. We should probably remove, or least Update them to reference only the part of the question that remains unanswered.

Quote:
Does Catch your Breath and recharging Once per Fight power occur on Missions where there are lulls in the waves of enemies (no figures on the board)?
If you're talking about Missions that are just one giant Fight (like A Town Overrun or any of the mine missions that have waves of Enemies attacking the board endlessly), then negative. It's one huge Fight, so nothing that happens at the End of a Fight happens until the Mission is over - even if there are no Enemies on the board. This is why most of these kinds of Missions have "extra" options that a Hero may give up their Attack for if they're not on a Tile with Enemies (like "Catch Your Breath" or "Ready a Once-per-Fight Item". This is pretty clear - I don't think we need FFP to weigh in on this unless they intend to change the RAW.

Quote:
The rules say corruption hits should be tallied for each item with a Darkstone icon. Is it done per item or per icon? It makes a difference for items with more than one icon.
I'm 99% confident that we can assume it's per Icon. My reasoning is two-fold: 1) there is very little reason to put multiple icons on a card otherwise and 2) all the content released since the Core Sets that references the Dark Stone you're carrying explicitly states that their effects are per icon for Dark Stone Items, in addition to being per shard.

It's not technically in the rules tho, so I understand keeping it around if you want.

Quote:
Does the Pickaxe have to be held in a hero's hands to gain the +1 Darkstone bonus at the end of the fight? How about the +1 Initiative from the Vicious Axe or Plasma Sword during a Fight?
RAW, this is a resounding yes. Even in the basic RAW, you have to equip your stuff at the start of your [Activation], and if you didn't do that on the last Fight Turn then you're not getting the +darkstone bonus at the end of the Fight.

The Plasma Sword issue is similar to the Mouse Form issue for the Shaman. It boils down to "If you lose or gain Initiative DURING your Activation, what happens?" This question has not been answered yet, despite the FAQ addressing the related - and somewhat more general - question of what happens when Initiative values change mid-Turn. Put another way, we now have a answer to what happens mid-Turn, but not necessarily mid-Activation.

It is my opinion that Activations cannot be interrupted by other Activations (there is no precedent for that anywhere in the rules or in the content), so I believe that the answer to this is: "once you start your Activation, you get to finish it before anything else Activates" - if this is true, then changes to your Init mid-activation have no effect of your ability to continue it.

However, we don't know for sure and it would be nice if FFP added something to that ruling to account for these specifics.

Quote:
Should any of the following items have a limit of 1 per hero?
We can get rid of this whole thing I think. This isn't really about rules mechanics or clearly broken combos. It's just a plea for minor tweaks and as such is beyond the scope of an FAQ (and it might be minor enough to not even be on the Radar). While multiple copies of these items would be powerful, they wouldn't get game breaking. Some of them don't even apply (the Holy Book is Limit One according to the Church Item and two Deflection Shields is utterly redundant cause Armor doesn't stack and it's effects last till the end of the Fight). Two Butcher's Blades is great, but they're Melee. The most you're ever going to kill is 8 guys, and that's if you're surrounded AND you manage to get your kill steak going (and without any +damage on your weapons that's going to be harder). The moment you start chopping away at Endurance enemies, you're power is gonna exponentially deflate.

There is also only 1 copy of most of these Items in their respective decks, and if we assume the game intends you keep copies of the cards (and retake them out of the decks when you "load" up an existing character), then it solves itself. I understand that many people (ahem, Adria, you cunning minx) prefer to simply keep the cards in the decks and write down their findings, but I believe this undermines the intended rarity of these items. We have it on good authority that FFP uses former method of tracking their acquisitions, and its not a big leap to assume the game's balance was constructed using that as a context. I understand that the latter method makes things much faster, and also lets people farm up the Best-In-Slot stuff for their builds instead of just condemning them to look longingly across the table for the one thing they still need and now cannot get, BUT there is SO much new gear in the Wave 2 content that there exist multiple valid options for Best-In-Slot items for any given build.

Quote:
Do items with a Dark Stone icon count when an encounter like bats requires the hero to lose a Darkstone if they fail a strength check?[/b]
RAW, yes. On page 19 of the Rule Book, it says clearly that Items with a Dark Stone icon on them "count as Dark Stone when considering how much Dark Stone the Hero is carrying." Any game effect that depends on how much DS the Hero is carrying (like Harried by Hellbats) absolutely causes you to "consider how much Dark Stone the Hero is carrying" and therefore includes DS Items.

Also while it's true that thematically, the Bats could just be scaring you into dropping those items, it's hilarious to imagine your horse being carrying away by bats.

Quote:
The Squid Canary says it "Cancels an Ambush Attack Completely", does this mean a hero could use it to bypass a Jargono Epic Threat if the World Ability causes it to become an Ambush? Would the heroes still win the Adventure if it was the final fight?
This is answered in the FAQ, page 9. You cannot cancel Attacks that are specific to the Mission itself. It's possible this can extrapolated into a ruling that Mission specific anything can't be canceled.

Quote:
Can the prisoner in the Sheriff's Office be interrogated multiple times (once per visit)?
This is pretty clear. No, because on the Sheriff's Office card it says "Limit Once per Town Stay for all Heroes"

Quote:
The Werewolf stat card doesn't mention drawing a Tribe card, yet the rulebook does. Do you draw a Werewolf Tribe card when you encounter Werewolves in a non-Werewolf Adventure?


RAW, no. You draw them when using the Werewolf Adventure Card. And that's it.

----

One last thing - we now know that Start of Turn stuff can happen in any order the Heroes choose (save for resource token refresh), but we don't know where Hold Back the Darkness fits into this. In the Rule Book it's its own Phase (and therefore presumably happens AFTER the Start of the Turn), but in other FFP games this kind of wording later got change into something more concrete (A Touch of Evil). This matters for many reasons, but here is a good example:

Can I cast a Sermon or Spell before Hold Back the Darkness? If so, and this eliminates the last Enemy on the board, what happens? Does the Fight end and the Turn restart, effectively giving us a short free Turn without a HBTD check? If not, why not? You're supposed to be able to cast most spells (like Sermons) at any time during the Turn. And you need to be able to cast spells during the HBTD phase (before the Models Activate Phase) to cancel any resultant Darkness and Growning Dread cards, so clearly Spells can be cast immediately following the roll.

So the broad question is: Where does Hold Back the Darkness fit with the Start of the Turn abilities?

The specific question is: Can I cast spells before HBTD, but after my spell tokens refresh? Why or why not?

- Jee
 
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Should the Prospector's Heavy Pick be available to buy for the Orphan if they grow up into that class? Most options have viable builds (even if you can't dual wield as an outlaw), but for the Prospector, the Orphan can't acquire a Heavy Pick. The only other d8 to hit is the rail driver or something like that.
 
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njep wrote:
Should the Prospector's Heavy Pick be available to buy for the Orphan if they grow up into that class? Most options have viable builds (even if you can't dual wield as an outlaw), but for the Prospector, the Orphan can't acquire a Heavy Pick. The only other d8 to hit is the rail driver or something like that.
There are now a few more options, thanks to the new content. There is a polearm in Cynder, some stuff in the new Gear/Artifacts in the Wave 2 content, and more Town stuff from the Blasted Wastes.

RAW, the Heavy Pick is not a Starting Item for the Orphan - even when grown up into a Prospector (because Orphans don't get Starting Gear weapons when they dual-class). Ergo, unfortunately, it's not available for purchase in the new way (as defined by the FAQ). But there are other options - if you manage to get 3 Tiers down, you can pick up Shotguns (uses the D8). If not, the weapons mentioned above are also valid options.

Also remember that, while Deathblow is a good ability, it only happens on 1/8th of all Hits. Not having it only decreases your damage by ~11%, which is something you can easily make up for with the Orphan's other Upgrades and skills (don't underestimate the ability to auto-pass Escape tests for a melee class).

- Jee
 
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Inspector Jee wrote:
njep wrote:
Should the Prospector's Heavy Pick be available to buy for the Orphan if they grow up into that class? Most options have viable builds (even if you can't dual wield as an outlaw), but for the Prospector, the Orphan can't acquire a Heavy Pick. The only other d8 to hit is the rail driver or something like that.
There are now a few more options, thanks to the new content. There is a polearm in Cynder, some stuff in the new Gear/Artifacts in the Wave 2 content, and more Town stuff from the Blasted Wastes.

RAW, the Heavy Pick is not a Starting Item for the Orphan - even when grown up into a Prospector (because Orphans don't get Starting Gear weapons when they dual-class). Ergo, unfortunately, it's not available for purchase in the new way (as defined by the FAQ). But there are other options - if you manage to get 3 Tiers down, you can pick up Shotguns (uses the D8). If not, the weapons mentioned above are also valid options.

Also remember that, while Deathblow is a good ability, it only happens on 1/8th of all Hits. Not having it only decreases your damage by ~11%, which is something you can easily make up for with the Orphan's other Upgrades and skills (don't underestimate the ability to auto-pass Escape tests for a melee class).

- Jee

I think though that the Prospector's deathblow ability is the only starting ability that cannot be used (without buying expansions or at least frontier town). It does only increase by a small average amount, but it does give you the ability to do 12 + points of damage, which is unique to the Prospector, Saloon girl starting upgrade, and the Trun disintegrator. The question is more of a question of theme rather than optimization. Of course one of the Rancher's starting abilities is obsolete with an Orphan due to the auto-evade so that is somewhat similar.
 
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njep wrote:
I think though that the Prospector's deathblow ability is the only starting ability that cannot be used (without buying expansions or at least frontier town). It does only increase by a small average amount, but it does give you the ability to do 12 + points of damage, which is unique to the Prospector, Saloon girl starting upgrade, and the Trun disintegrator.
And Gunslingers with Hellfire Shot.

But this isn't really true, because the Orphan's natural limitations (like being unable to attack with more than 1 Gun at once) severely compromises many classes' Starting abilities/Upgrades (or entire mechanical function). Outlaws, Lawmen, Gunslingers, Bandidos, Drifters - all of these classes' abilities are far more useful if the option to Multi-wield remains open to them. Some of them are even completely useless, unlike Deathblow. Heck Saloon Girls actually make Orphans worse in regard to the types of Guns they can equip, let alone how many.

My point is that dual-classing is not without it's drawbacks, and it's intended to be that way. The Prospector situation isn't functionally unique. The upside is that you get to add powers to that class that you wouldn't have been able to otherwise, offsetting any common negative interactions between the classes.

- Jee
 
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