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Shadows of Brimstone: City of the Ancients» Forums » Rules

Subject: Official Shadows of Brimstone FAQ question thread. rss

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George
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Autoduelist wrote:
Soosy, I wish I could help you, but the explanation I provided came straight from Jason Hill's mouth about Dynamite at the Wave 2 pickup event: "all your attacks" (because it's a ranged attack to throw dynamite) and effects specifically mentioning dynamite are the ultimate example of bonuses that apply to dynamite. "to your hit" effects don't apply to dynamite because the only thing being hit is the space/ground. General damage effects like marks which say "+1 damage to <keyword>" don't apply to dynamite either because they don't mention the word "attack" on the card.
Ok, thanks, I didn’t realize you specifically asked about Marks + Dynamite. I can accept Marks don’t work on “all of your Attacks”. And reading the FAQ again, it practically calls out Marks specifically when it says:
Quote:
Items and Abilities that are ‘+X Damage against <Keyword> Enemies’ are also limited by this same restriction (may only modify Damage on a To Hit roll assigned to a model with that Keyword).
I’m still very interested in how Marks in Clothing is ruled though. I'm kind of hoping they don't have any effect. It makes more sense to me that an attached item just adds its text to what it's attached to... and since Marks don't say "all of your attacks" then it would only have an effect on a weapon.

And the reason I was discussing Hits (vs Attacks) was not for Dynamite but for Righteous Fury… speaking of which, I’d still like to get a solid answer from Jason:

Does “all of that Hero’s Hits do +1 Damage each” on Righteous Fury include Hits not caused by Attacks (i.e. Sermons)?

Do Sermons benefit from “all of your attacks” +Damage effects?


There are a few items like Scroll of Flames and Hellfire Ring that are very similar to Sermons but are labeled Free Attacks so they would get +damage bonuses where the Sermons would not.


Similarly, there are a handful of items that aren’t clarified as an attack or not:

Book of the Mad King - Once per Fight, you may read from the book. Choose an Enemy on your Map Tile to take D6 Wounds with no Defense. You then take either D6 Corruption Hits or 2D6 Horror Hits (you choose).

Ring of Oro’sia [Cynder] - +1 Spirit, Once per Adventure, do 2 Wounds, ignoring Defense to every model Adjacent to you.

Ash of Shadows - Discard to smash Ash of Shadows on the ground. Every Hero on you Map Tile immediately takes 2 Corruption Hits (including you). Every Enemy on your Map Tile (except Undead) immediately takes 2 Wounds, ignoring Defense.

I guess we can assume they are not Attacks in regards to +Damage effects? Would be good to confirm since there are very similar items labeled “Free Attack” that would benefit:

Example: Scroll of Flames: Discard to gain: Free Attack - Place 4 Hellfire markers in any spaces within range 8…. Hellfire markers do 1 Hit with 2D6 damage to anything in their space, and are then removed.
 
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Jee Fu
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soosy wrote:
Autoduelist wrote:
Soosy, I wish I could help you, but the explanation I provided came straight from Jason Hill's mouth about Dynamite at the Wave 2 pickup event: "all your attacks" (because it's a ranged attack to throw dynamite) and effects specifically mentioning dynamite are the ultimate example of bonuses that apply to dynamite. "to your hit" effects don't apply to dynamite because the only thing being hit is the space/ground. General damage effects like marks which say "+1 damage to <keyword>" don't apply to dynamite either because they don't mention the word "attack" on the card.
Ok, thanks, I didn’t realize you specifically asked about Marks + Dynamite. I can accept Marks don’t work on “all of your Attacks”. And reading the FAQ again, it practically calls out Marks specifically when it says:
Quote:
Items and Abilities that are ‘+X Damage against <Keyword> Enemies’ are also limited by this same restriction (may only modify Damage on a To Hit roll assigned to a model with that Keyword).
I’m still very interested in how Marks in Clothing is ruled though. I'm kind of hoping they don't have any effect. It makes more sense to me that an attached item just adds its text to what it's attached to... and since Marks don't say "all of your attacks" then it would only have an effect on a weapon.

And the reason I was discussing Hits (vs Attacks) was not for Dynamite but for Righteous Fury… speaking of which, I’d still like to get a solid answer from Jason:

Does “all of that Hero’s Hits do +1 Damage each” on Righteous Fury include Hits not caused by Attacks (i.e. Sermons)?

Do Sermons benefit from “all of your attacks” +Damage effects?


There are a few items like Scroll of Flames and Hellfire Ring that are very similar to Sermons but are labeled Free Attacks so they would get +damage bonuses where the Sermons would not.


Similarly, there are a handful of items that aren’t clarified as an attack or not:

Book of the Mad King - Once per Fight, you may read from the book. Choose an Enemy on your Map Tile to take D6 Wounds with no Defense. You then take either D6 Corruption Hits or 2D6 Horror Hits (you choose).

Ring of Oro’sia [Cynder] - +1 Spirit, Once per Adventure, do 2 Wounds, ignoring Defense to every model Adjacent to you.

Ash of Shadows - Discard to smash Ash of Shadows on the ground. Every Hero on you Map Tile immediately takes 2 Corruption Hits (including you). Every Enemy on your Map Tile (except Undead) immediately takes 2 Wounds, ignoring Defense.

I guess we can assume they are not Attacks in regards to +Damage effects? Would be good to confirm since there are very similar items labeled “Free Attack” that would benefit:

Example: Scroll of Flames: Discard to gain: Free Attack - Place 4 Hellfire markers in any spaces within range 8…. Hellfire markers do 1 Hit with 2D6 damage to anything in their space, and are then removed.

I purport that we have convincing, consistent, and logical answers to these questions already.

Sermons are not Attacks. So they aren't affected by anything that only affects Attacks. But yes, they can generate Hits. So they ARE affected by anything which adds damage to Hits (like Righteous Fury or Marks/Runes).

Just because there are other effects in the game that are similar to Sermons doesn't mean they behave the same way mechanically where +dmg is concerned. The Hellfire Ring can't be used after your Activation is over. Cleansing Fire can. One is an Attack and the other isn't; just because they both create Hellfire doesn't mean they both deserve +dmg. The reasons why are up to the designer (you can speculate - Cleansing Fire can be cast every single Turn for instance), but there is no question here RAW.

The abilities of the Book, the Ring of Oro'sia, the Ash are not Attacks nor do they generate Hits to Enemies (they deal straight Wounds instead). So they get absolutely no help from anything that gives +dmg to Hits or Attacks. However, you can use them basically any time you want.

Unless you strongly believe that these items were labelled in error and that all of them were meant to be explicitly labelled as Free Attacks, we can safely conclude with the information available what FFP's intent here is. I don't have a particular problem with asking about some things that seem clear, just to be on the safe side. But we have to draw a line of trust somewhere or this list of questions will start bleeding into a list of suggestions instead; the latter is much harder to manage and far less likely to be a priority to FFP.

- Jee
 
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George
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Inspector Jee wrote:
I purport that we have convincing, consistent, and logical answers to these questions already.
Sermons are not Attacks. So they aren't affected by anything that only affects Attacks. But yes, they can generate Hits. So they ARE affected by anything which adds damage to Hits (like Righteous Fury or Marks/Runes).

Sermons are conspicuously absent from the FAQ. Splash Damage was specifically called out, why not Sermons? I think adding "But not Sermons" or "including Sermons" to the Damage Modifiers section would be quite worth it.

The whole Damage Modifiers section kind of turned a lot the existing thought on its head as far as I can tell.

I mean, are we sure the Hit generated from a Hellfire marker counts as a "Hero's Hit"? It kinda sounds a bit like dynamite where it's the Marker doing the damage, not the Priest. (Edit: dynamite isn't a good comparison.)

Inspector Jee wrote:
Just because there are other effects in the game that are similar to Sermons doesn't mean they behave the same way mechanically where +dmg is concerned. The Hellfire Ring can't be used after your Activation is over. Cleansing Fire can. One is an Attack and the other isn't; just because they both create Hellfire doesn't mean they both deserve +dmg. The reasons why are up to the designer (you can speculate - Cleansing Fire can be cast every single Turn for instance), but there is no question here RAW.

Good points, and I'm guessing Sermons are exempt from +Damage. I just think it's FAQ worthy. Isn't it worth clarifying that Hellfire markers from a Scroll of Flame gets +Damage but Hellfire markers from Cleansing Fire do not?

And I really have an issue with Righteous Fury working on hits from non-attacks. It seems very arbitrary. Partially because there are very few instances of Hits that aren't also attacks. So it makes Righteous Fury seem like a loophole.

Inspector Jee wrote:
The abilities of the Book, the Ring of Oro'sia, the Ash are not Attacks nor do they generate Hits to Enemies (they deal straight Wounds instead). So they get absolutely no help from anything that gives +dmg to Hits or Attacks. However, you can use them basically any time you want.

Unless you strongly believe that these items were labelled in error and that all of them were meant to be explicitly labelled as Free Attacks, we can safely conclude with the information available what FFP's intent here is. I don't have a particular problem with asking about some things that seem clear, just to be on the safe side. But we have to draw a line of trust somewhere or this list of questions will start bleeding into a list of suggestions instead; the latter is much harder to manage and far less likely to be a priority to FFP.

- Jee

Since there are only 3 of them, it does make me wonder if they are labeled in error. (There could be more than 3 I haven't comprehensively looked through everything... or any of wave 2.) I'd guess they weren't labeled Free Attacks because they are not meant to take up the 1 Free Attack per turn. (Or just card space reasons for Ash of Shadows.) But I'm surprised they wouldn't benefit from +damage effects, since almost anything else (aside from Sermons/Splash) a Hero causes would get the "all of your attacks" +damage effect. Why these 3 items along with Sermons and Splash? It's odd.

Sorry to be a bother. I agree we don't want to turn this into a list of suggestions. I'm not too concerned with these 3 items, so I won't feel bad if they don't get added. I'm more concerned with the general rules of Damage Modifiers. I really like what the FAQ has clarified so far. There's just a few items like Sermons that seem conspicuously absent.
 
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Neil Edmonds
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Remember, these aren't *my* questions, I'm just documenting the community's questions. The only requirements I have is that I can summarize the user's request and the question doesn't have an official answer. Unfortunately, I don't have a physical copy of the game to refer to (my friend bought my pledge), so I have to accept what people tell me is true unless I know better from my personal experience playing the game.

I have to use my judgment though when removing questions because they've been officially answered or the community has decided it should be removed. But since I've been invited to weigh-in, I'll do so after the latest updates.

Orphan starting items ADDED (it seems simple enough for Jason to answer)
Catch your Breath REMOVED
Darkstone icons REMOVED
Limit 1 per hero MOVED to errors (I removed the items Jee mentioned), since they could be valid proofreading issues that could be fixed in future printings.
Pick-Axe question REMOVED
Darkstone Icon for Bats REMOVED
Werewolf Tribe REMOVED

Quote:
It is my opinion that Activations cannot be interrupted by other Activations (there is no precedent for that anywhere in the rules or in the content), so I believe that the answer to this is: "once you start your Activation, you get to finish it before anything else Activates" - if this is true, then changes to your Init mid-activation have no effect of your ability to continue it.

However, we don't know for sure and it would be nice if FFP added something to that ruling to account for these specifics.

I agree as well. I'm happy to get an answer from Jason, but I don't think this is the community's highest priority question. It feels like we're badgering him with minutia.

Quote:
There is also only 1 copy of most of these Items in their respective decks, and if we assume the game intends you keep copies of the cards (and retake them out of the decks when you "load" up an existing character), then it solves itself. I understand that many people (ahem, Adria, you cunning minx) prefer to simply keep the cards in the decks and write down their findings, but I believe this undermines the intended rarity of these items. We have it on good authority that FFP uses former method of tracking their acquisitions, and its not a big leap to assume the game's balance was constructed using that as a context.


Flying Frog could easily solve the problem by instructing players to remove the card from the game when it's found. This would work for one-off missions and campaigns. So, I think it's a valid question for players to ask. Steps have been made to curb some of the abuses - attributes capped at 6 and discarding all no-weight items - but it still doesn't prevent all the abuses. I personally wouldn't abuse the game this way, but I know there are people in the community that would or play with people who would, and this is a community FAQ, so I included the question.

I have anecdotes that say otherwise regarding card re-use. If Flying Frog didn't want you to record information, they wouldn't have blank character sheets for sale. If we're arguing with anecdotes, then this explanation is just as valid as citing what Flying Frog does during demo sessions.

There's a reason why the town location items don't have cards - it would cost a lot of money to make the illustrations and it would be challenging to determine how many cards to provide to make players happy (and some players wouldn't use them at all and just record stuff on the character sheet.) Flying Frog ultimately decided they'd rather have the flexibility to add additional items to the locations and spend their development budget in other areas that would please players more. That's the summary I got from Scott Hill when I asked why there are no town item cards. I personally don't want Town Item cards myself, but I asked it for the community since there are all those Printer Studio decks that keep getting cease-and-desisted (which, BTW, Flying Frog has to do under U.S. Trademark law or they lose their trademark.)

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Neil Edmonds
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I think some posters are really getting hung up on Marks because of how they work in popular culture. Once you change your pop-culture reference, it not hard to accept how they function mechanically in the game:

1.) The mark might flare up in the presence of its keyword type like Wynonna Earp's pistol or Bilbo Baggin's sword Sting. In the case of Earp's pistol, it has to be used to kill revenants; however, Bilbo could pull Sting slightly out of the scabbard to check if it glowed because orcs were nearby (leading to endless debates whether Bilbo equipped Sting. Christopher Tolkien was consulted, but ignored because he's not J.R.R. )
2.) The mark might be something the hero touches to activate it.
3.) The mark might require the hero to shout a magic word to activate it (won't they be suprised when the Cynder phrase translates into the Tick's battlecry: SPOON!)
4.) The hero might have to rub their item against the mark to acquire some of its power.

So yeah, there's lots of ways marks can do damage without being attached to weapons simply because they're magic/holy.

I think Jason Hill hasn't mentioned sermons because none of that stuff applies. What specific question(s) should we be asking him? Some examples:

Can Judgement (or whatever it's called) benefit from marks when smiting enemies?

Are Sermons impacted by effects provide a bonus/penalty to attacks?
 
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The reason we have blank character sheets could easily be so that we can save our Heroes' stats and loot between sessions, or to consolidate stat buffs. I'm not sure I would agree that their existence is an argument for the official sanctioning of throwing cards right back into their respective decks rather than keeping them, but this is a small thing.

I supposed we could ask a general question about it tho? Maybe something like "Is there an official and suggested method for pulling items in regard to player card retention. If so, what is it? If not, are you concerned with how getting multiple copies of rare and powerful cards will affect game balance?" And then list some of those items as examples (maybe include The Judge).

- Jee
 
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The problem is measuring which ones count. Wouldn't a Trederran weapon be common (part of what the troops carry) while the Judge would be rare? This would require adding "remove from the deck" text to some cards, there might not be room to do this on every effected card, now the designer has to specify this characteristic for every item in the game (new & old), someone will ask how does that affect town items....

It's has some wide-ranging implications for the amount of work Jason Hall has to do just to make sure everyone plays the game the same way (officially at least).
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Neil Edmonds
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Besides, why does the Judge have to be rare? Maybe it's called "the Judge" the same way a Colt .45 Single Action pistol was called a "Peacemaker":

Recognizing the danger that creatures from other worlds posed, Samuel Colt realized his popular Peacemaker pistol was woefully under-powered, so he created the Judge, a pistol with a rifled barrel and larger munitions designed to put down Otherwordly threats. Production only started recently, so sightings of the Judge are rare.
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Autoduelist wrote:
There's a reason why the town location items don't have cards - it would cost a lot of money to make the illustrations and it would be challenging to determine how many cards to provide to make players happy (and some players wouldn't use them at all and just record stuff on the character sheet.) Flying Frog ultimately decided they'd rather have the flexibility to add additional items to the locations and spend their development budget in other areas that would please players more. That's the summary I got from Scott Hill when I asked why there are no town item cards. I personally don't want Town Item cards myself, but I asked it for the community since there are all those Printer Studio decks that keep getting cease-and-desisted (which, BTW, Flying Frog has to do under U.S. Trademark law or they lose their trademark.)
I can certainly understand the high cost of doing so many illustrations. But the Town cards and card editor have been very popular among the fans. Several of us worked together to make the full Town and Town expansion cards so we could have a full set. I personally like keeping the cards with my character sheet, that's why I wanted all the town items too.

For my printing of the Town cards, I made 2-4 copies of each card. 6 for the ammo types just in case. Unlike the artifact deck, the town items don't feel unique so the dups make sense. With the immense size of the artifact and gear decks now and there are dups of a lot of the more common items, don't see a problem with keeping the cards with the character sheets.
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Autoduelist wrote:
Besides, why does the Judge have to be rare? Maybe it's called "the Judge" the same way a Colt .45 Single Action pistol was called a "Peacemaker":

Recognizing the danger that creatures from other worlds posed, Samuel Colt realized his popular Peacemaker pistol was woefully under-powered, so he created the Judge, a pistol with a rifled barrel and larger munitions designed to put down Otherwordly threats. Production only started recently, so sightings of the Judge are rare.

The Judge is actually visually based on the Le Mat revolver, which was a Confederate naval pistol during the Civil War. The Le Mat had a 20 gauge shotgun barrel below the pistol barrel, which is why The Judge uses the d8 to hit (Because it's a pistol shotgun)
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So, going through my Wave 2 pickup, I have one question and one comment.

Question: What is the timing window on the Samurai's ability to spend Fury on effects other than Battle Tactics? Can I use the "spend Fury to deal an additional d3 damage" effect on the Katana after rolling damage like I would with a Dead Shot Bullet?

Comment: They really went overboard with the "maximum +3 shots/combat from effect" on new cards. On Ranchers it was arguably necessary since the hunting rifle is powerful and long ranged, but the Samurai Blademaster is mostly limited to adjacent targets. In fact, the Blademaster winds up weaker than the Quiet Traveler after a few missions as the Traveler can easily get +2 or 3 combat with his additional two handed weapon. The other major instance where the max bonus is irritating is the artifact carbine from the mines deck. It gains bonus shots with movement, but starts at 1 shot. You have to move four squares a turn to be equal to a starting carbine, and max out at 4 shots. I say, if someone manages to move 8+ squares without backtracking, give them the extra shots.
 
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Kristof Verhoeven
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I have a few questions, although the FAQ raises some of them.
I also suspect some of these may have already popped up in discussions elsewhere ...

1) The marshal's badge states that you can spend two grit to reactivate it. Is there a limit to how often you can use and reactivate it per turn (other than your max grit)? As in, a character has 6 grit, uses the badge to give his posse +2 shots/attacks, then spends 2 grit to reactivate it and give everyone another +2 shots/attacks, repeat two more times. Possibly drinking some tonic for extra grit along the way. Everyone now has +8 dice for their next attack.

2) For the gunslinger, combining the skills "Best shot in the west" (to hit ranged at 2+) with "call your shot" (call a number, any dice that rolls this number does an extra damage even if it would otherwise have missed) means that a gunslinger who calls 1 every time essentially can no longer miss (except for modifiers like venom, steam, etc...)

3) Apparently, a weapon's bonus (e.g. using the D8 for damage), allows you to use that dice for all you combat dice. It doesn't specifically mention dual wielding however. Can you combine bonuses from two melee weapons that way?

4) Another gunslinger question:
I find it odd that darkstone bullets can not be combined with the gunslinger's basic dead-eye shot (which seems more like a skill rather than a type of ammunition), yet the ricochet shot (also a skill-like upgrade) CAN be, and can even be used in combination with another bullet token (even though using 2 tokens on 1 shot already is an existing skill upgrade).

---

With regards to the critical hits discussion, I suspect that every critical hit should first and foremost be a "hit" as well. So even if a bow crits on a 4, 5 or 6, you would "critically miss" the enemy if you rolled a 4 and your to hit is 5+.
Anything that reduces your "to hit" roll would reduce your chance to hit the target, e.g. because of reduced visibility or due to weakness from being poisoned, regardless of what you need to roll to "critically" hit it. Unless otherwise stated, that means you can no longer roll a 6 on a D6, even though you could technically still roll a critical hit with less than a 6 (like with the bow), or the to hit reduction states that you're still allowed to count the critical hit (provided you actually manage to hit after the reduction, I would assume).
 
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exarch404 wrote:
I have a few questions, although the FAQ raises some of them.
I also suspect some of these may have already popped up in discussions elsewhere ...

1) The marshal's badge states that you can spend two grit to reactivate it. Is there a limit to how often you can use and reactivate it per turn (other than your max grit)? As in, a character has 6 grit, uses the badge to give his posse +2 shots/attacks, then spends 2 grit to reactivate it and give everyone another +2 shots/attacks, repeat two more times. Possibly drinking some tonic for extra grit along the way. Everyone now has +8 dice for their next attack.
The Marshal's badge shouldn't have any info on it regarding grit. Are you referring to something else?
Quote:

2) For the gunslinger, combining the skills "Best shot in the west" (to hit ranged at 2+) with "call your shot" (call a number, any dice that rolls this number does an extra damage even if it would otherwise have missed) means that a gunslinger who calls 1 every time essentially can no longer miss (except for modifiers like venom, steam, etc...)
it's pretty killer combo, but yes, however rolling a one is still a miss, but it does that auto 1 damage.
Quote:

3) Apparently, a weapon's bonus (e.g. using the D8 for damage), allows you to use that dice for all you combat dice. It doesn't specifically mention dual wielding however. Can you combine bonuses from two melee weapons that way?
Melee weapons always combine effects. So if you have the feathered hatchet(+1 combat, +1 damage) and a pickaxe(+1 combat), you'll be rolling 4 dice and all of those hits will be +1 damage.
Quote:

4) Another gunslinger question:
I find it odd that darkstone bullets can not be combined with the gunslinger's basic dead-eye shot (which seems more like a skill rather than a type of ammunition), yet the ricochet shot (also a skill-like upgrade) CAN be, and can even be used in combination with another bullet token (even though using 2 tokens on 1 shot already is an existing skill upgrade).

Unless it's in the faq, darkstone bullets can be combined with dead-eye shot. unless I'm missing something.
Quote:

---

With regards to the critical hits discussion, I suspect that every critical hit should first and foremost be a "hit" as well. So even if a bow crits on a 4, 5 or 6, you would "critically miss" the enemy if you rolled a 4 and your to hit is 5+.
Anything that reduces your "to hit" roll would reduce your chance to hit the target, e.g. because of reduced visibility or due to weakness from being poisoned, regardless of what you need to roll to "critically" hit it. Unless otherwise stated, that means you can no longer roll a 6 on a D6, even though you could technically still roll a critical hit with less than a 6 (like with the bow), or the to hit reduction states that you're still allowed to count the critical hit (provided you actually manage to hit after the reduction, I would assume).
 
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Jee Fu
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The Judge is arguably the best 1-Handed Gun in the game, all things considered. There is only 1 in the whole Mine Artifacts Deck. There are 2 Amulets of Kotak, 2 Scrolls of Flame, 2 Amulets of Heingal, etc. There can be no reason for this distribution unless FFP intended The Judge to be rarer than the rest. Not rare enough to put a Limit 1 on the card, but rare enough that it rarity was purposeful. And its obvious why; its rarity isn't because of its theme (nor should it ever be, when it comes to Rules and Balance) - it's because the Gun is a death machine.

Go search through your decks and see if any card you have only 1 copy of says Limit 1. If you don't find many - or any - that's a strong indication that the number of copies of that card that you have represents a soft cap on the number you're supposed to be able to get. Contrast this with stuff you can buy in Town; a lot of them say Limit 1 because Jason knows he has to be explicit about items that a) have no cards and b) can be purchased on-demand.

I think this represents all I have to say on the subject. If you guys want to compile a list of things the community thinks should be Limit 1, but isn't, then lets do it. Recognize that such an undertaking is either going to be hard to manage (cause everyone will likely have their own version of what they think the list should be) or become so bloated that the question will essentially become a demand for FFP to go through half the items in the game with a magnifying glass - which they will never do. In either case it takes up a lot of time/space for very little in return. A question about whether or not card saturation is intended to be a softcap on the number of those cards in play, should suffice. We can extrapolate everything from that.

exarch404 wrote:


1) The marshal's badge states that you can spend two grit to reactivate it. Is there a limit to how often you can use and reactivate it per turn (other than your max grit)? As in, a character has 6 grit, uses the badge to give his posse +2 shots/attacks, then spends 2 grit to reactivate it and give everyone another +2 shots/attacks, repeat two more times. Possibly drinking some tonic for extra grit along the way. Everyone now has +8 dice for their next attack.
This ability is not present on the Badge itself; it's an Upgrade that U.S. Marshal's can obtain, should they desire. As for whether or not you can stack them, you cannot. The FAQ makes this clear - it says that Heroes can only gain a badge-benefit once per Turn.

exarch404 wrote:
2) For the gunslinger, combining the skills "Best shot in the west" (to hit ranged at 2+) with "call your shot" (call a number, any dice that rolls this number does an extra damage even if it would otherwise have missed) means that a gunslinger who calls 1 every time essentially can no longer miss (except for modifiers like venom, steam, etc...)
Yes and No (although this^ is not technically a question; seems more like a statement). You can miss, but those misses will do a single Wound to your target anyway. The distinction is important, because these wounds don't come from Hits (like Wounds that came from a normal Hit would, after being affected by Enemy Defense), and therefore cannot benefit from +dmg buffs and effects. Also they will still trigger any abilities in play that happen "when you miss" because misses aren't defined in terms of Wounds dealt; they are defined in terms of whether or not you rolled values that meet or beat your To Hit value.

That being said, whether or not those Wounds done are affected by "+Dmg to Attacks" effects is totally worthy of FAQing, because it's not obvious whether or not "Call Your Shot" counts as a direct part of the Attack or counts as its own thing that just so happens to come into play during an Attack. Or maybe it counts as Splash? There is no way to tell. In fact, the way its worded is also confusing in regard to whether it can effect Combat rolls.

So this should absolutely be a question in the FAQ, something like: Are the Wounds generated from Call Your Shot affected by +dmg to Hits and/or Attacks? Can this Upgrade effect Melee Attacks?

exarch404 wrote:
3) Apparently, a weapon's bonus (e.g. using the D8 for damage), allows you to use that dice for all you combat dice. It doesn't specifically mention dual wielding however. Can you combine bonuses from two melee weapons that way?
As defined in the Rule Book, "Dual Wielding" is a jargon term that applies to Ranged Combat only. That's not to say you cannot "wield" two+ Melee at weapons at once - you totally can - but that situation is not considered to be subject to the limitations of "Dual Wielding". When you Attack in Melee, you combine all effects of ALL the weapons (and any other Gear that might come into play) that you have equipped. If you have both an Indian Hatchet and a Fireblade equipped at the same time, then ALL your regular Combat Hits do +1 Damage AND add a Burning Marker, as the effects of these 2 weapons combine. In a Ranged Attack, this is not the case.

exarch404 wrote:
4) Another gunslinger question:
I find it odd that darkstone bullets can not be combined with the gunslinger's basic dead-eye shot (which seems more like a skill rather than a type of ammunition), yet the ricochet shot (also a skill-like upgrade) CAN be, and can even be used in combination with another bullet token (even though using 2 tokens on 1 shot already is an existing skill upgrade).
This doesn't seem like a question either, but I'll take a stab. This situation with Ricochet seems odd because it didn't used to be that way, but was changed because Ricochet Shots were largely ignored by the players, due their inability to scale (be effective at later levels). In 99% of cases, LOS and Range are not nearly as important as +dmg or splash damage. With this change, these shots are now useful. And gameplay is restored.

exarch404 wrote:

With regards to the critical hits discussion, I suspect that every critical hit should first and foremost be a "hit" as well. So even if a bow crits on a 4, 5 or 6, you would "critically miss" the enemy if you rolled a 4 and your to hit is 5+.
Anything that reduces your "to hit" roll would reduce your chance to hit the target, e.g. because of reduced visibility or due to weakness from being poisoned, regardless of what you need to roll to "critically" hit it. Unless otherwise stated, that means you can no longer roll a 6 on a D6, even though you could technically still roll a critical hit with less than a 6 (like with the bow), or the to hit reduction states that you're still allowed to count the critical hit (provided you actually manage to hit after the reduction, I would assume).
Yes - this is pretty much the situation. The Rules are unclear about how item/ability bonuses that modify the Hero's To Hit Range interact with Crits and effects from the environment. Most of Hit dampening effects DO still say, explicitly that that you can still Crit on a natural 6; this adds yet more questions to the whole situation.

Soosy wrote:
And I really have an issue with Righteous Fury working on hits from non-attacks. It seems very arbitrary. Partially because there are very few instances of Hits that aren't also attacks. So it makes Righteous Fury seem like a loophole.
Last thing I'll say on Sermons: some of these wordings do seem arbitrary, but not to the designers. They're much closer to the situation and understand better than us how the changes and interactions of mechanics affect the balance and challenge of the game. Some things generate Hits and some don't. Some generate only Combat Hits, and some things are Attacks, and somethings aren't. When you see this kind of thing going on, it's usually because FFP is deliberately limiting the amount of the things that make those things better. If you don't keep this game on a tight leash, Hero power-level spirals out of control pretty fast - especially if your players are skilled at maximizing their effectiveness and are even half-awake.

A lot of times you can sorta see why they do what they did. Righteous Fury is difficult, dangerous, and guarantees you nothing if the target misses. If it didn't also effect Hits generated from non-weapon-based sources - like your Sermons, or some Once-Per_Fight on-demand damage items - it would be underpowered and less desirable in vacuum than another Sermon.

In regard to Hellfire markers, nothing in the rules indicates that all Hellfire Markers function similarly. However, the rules DO say that all things that generates Hits function the same in regard to +Dmg effects. Remember that anything which generates a Hit must still go through Enemy Defense, Hellfire or not. This is yet another reason why some damage results from Hits, and some damage does not.

Regault wrote:
Question: What is the timing window on the Samurai's ability to spend Fury on effects other than Battle Tactics? Can I use the "spend Fury to deal an additional d3 damage" effect on the Katana after rolling damage like I would with a Dead Shot Bullet?
Yes, this is allowed. There is no indication that the ability to "spend X to gain +dmg" functions differently when X is Fury (assuming its not coming from a Battle Tactic) than when it's Gunslinger Shot (or Ammo, or an Amulet of Heingal, etc). Following this logic, you can actually spend Fury you gain on initial Hits to power up later Hits, within the same Attack.

- Jee
 
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Kristof Verhoeven
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exarch404 wrote:
1) The marshal's badge states that you can spend two grit to reactivate it. Is there a limit to how often you can use and reactivate it per turn (other than your max grit)?[...]
The Marshal's badge shouldn't have any info on it regarding grit. Are you referring to something else?
I think our Marshall has been swindling us
I just checked the skill upgrades, and the US marshall does have one (Honor 2) that allows him to "ready the Marshall's badge ONCE PER ADVENTURE" for 2 grit. He's built his entire character around that. But it's clearly against the rules to do so more than once. I guess nobody cared to check because the whole posse benefits from it ...

njep wrote:
Unless it's in the faq, darkstone bullets can be combined with dead-eye shot. unless I'm missing something.
Unfortunately, it's in the FFP FAQ. Page 3 right hand column.
The Dead-eye shot is apparently an ammo type, which cannot be combined with other ammo types. the only advantage the gunslinger has is that he can switch back to darkstone bullets after using a dead-eye shot token, while everyone else loses their previous ammo (like darkstone bullets) after having switched to another ammo type. The exception is the ricochet ammo (further explained at the end of page 8 and in the Q&A, top right on page 10).
 
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Inspector Jee wrote:
Yes and No (although this^ is not technically a question; seems more like a statement). You can miss, but those misses will do a single Wound to your target anyway. The distinction is important, because these wounds don't come from Hits (like Wounds that came from a normal Hit would, after being affected by Enemy Defense), and therefore cannot benefit from +dmg buffs and effects. Also they will still trigger any abilities in play that happen "when you miss" because misses aren't defined in terms of Wounds dealt; they are defined in terms of whether or not you rolled values that meet or beat your To Hit value.

That being said, whether or not those Wounds done are affected by "+Dmg to Attacks" effects is totally worthy of FAQing, because it's not obvious whether or not "Call Your Shot" counts as a direct part of the Attack or counts as its own thing that just so happens to come into play during an Attack. Or maybe it counts as Splash? There is no way to tell. In fact, the way its worded is also confusing in regard to whether it can effect Combat rolls.

So this should absolutely be a question in the FAQ, something like: Are the Wounds generated from Call Your Shot affected by +dmg to Hits and/or Attacks? Can this Upgrade effect Melee Attacks?
Interesting point, as it also raises the question whether this damage, if it kills an enemy, has been dealt by this gun or not (e.g. for the purpose of aditional damage to enemies in the 3 spaces behind it) etc...

Inspector Jee wrote:
This doesn't seem like a question either, but I'll take a stab. This situation with Ricochet seems odd because it didn't used to be that way, but was changed because Ricochet Shots were largely ignored by the players, due their inability to scale (be effective at later levels). In 99% of cases, LOS and Range are not nearly as important as +dmg or splash damage. With this change, these shots are now useful. And gameplay is restored.
I think you may be right, as no one in my group has used that upgrade track at all, because it seems like it's not really improving much on the basic 6-shooter template as only 2 and 3 are interesting, and you can't combine them until you get to the end.
 
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The Judge is actually visually based on the Le Mat revolver, which was a Confederate naval pistol during the Civil War. The Le Mat had a 20 gauge shotgun barrel below the pistol barrel, which is why The Judge uses the d8 to hit (Because it's a pistol shotgun)

Sweet! I don't know anything about guns, that sounds crazy!




Quote:
I can certainly understand the high cost of doing so many illustrations. But the Town cards and card editor have been very popular among the fans. Several of us worked together to make the full Town and Town expansion cards so we could have a full set. I personally like keeping the cards with my character sheet, that's why I wanted all the town items too.

Scott Hill liked the idea of Town cards too, but it didn't make the cut for business reasons. Money spent on town cards meant less money spent on other parts of the game, and from a design perspective, it would definitely translate into less items for each town location since the decision process would always have to be - "Do we want to spend the money to create an illustration and generate a card for that?" With the current process, it's just a matter of adding text to the Town chart.

Enforcement has nothing to do with whether Flying Frog personally likes or dislikes a community project. It's U.S. Trademark & Copyright law that forces Flying Frog to shut these projects down when they become aware of them, or else they lose their trademark. Trademarks cover things like the Flying Frog company logo, the Shadows Brimstone logo, etc. Once a trademark is gone, anybody can use the trademarked material, which means another game company or miniature manufacturer could produce and sell Shadows of Brimstone-branded merchandise for a profit, which is what the real danger is for Flying Frog when they learn about free/not-for-profit fan mods.
 
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exarch404 wrote:
Inspector Jee wrote:
Yes and No (although this^ is not technically a question; seems more like a statement). You can miss, but those misses will do a single Wound to your target anyway. The distinction is important, because these wounds don't come from Hits (like Wounds that came from a normal Hit would, after being affected by Enemy Defense), and therefore cannot benefit from +dmg buffs and effects. Also they will still trigger any abilities in play that happen "when you miss" because misses aren't defined in terms of Wounds dealt; they are defined in terms of whether or not you rolled values that meet or beat your To Hit value.

That being said, whether or not those Wounds done are affected by "+Dmg to Attacks" effects is totally worthy of FAQing, because it's not obvious whether or not "Call Your Shot" counts as a direct part of the Attack or counts as its own thing that just so happens to come into play during an Attack. Or maybe it counts as Splash? There is no way to tell. In fact, the way its worded is also confusing in regard to whether it can effect Combat rolls.

So this should absolutely be a question in the FAQ, something like: Are the Wounds generated from Call Your Shot affected by +dmg to Hits and/or Attacks? Can this Upgrade effect Melee Attacks?
Interesting point, as it also raises the question whether this damage, if it kills an enemy, has been dealt by this gun or not (e.g. for the purpose of aditional damage to enemies in the 3 spaces behind it) etc...

This ability seems mostly straightforward to me. Since it says "extra 1 Damage" I think it totally is coming from your Gun attack. "Extra" is the key, but "Damage" instead of "Wound" also helps indicate it's part of the gun damage and not a secondary effect, imo.

Now if you rolled a successful Hit, then you are assigning a successful To Hit roll to the Model so there should be no problem adding +Damage effects.

If you rolled all fails, then it does get a little tricky. Technically you aren't assigning a successful To Hit roll to the model, so per the letter of the FAQ, it wouldn't get +Damage effects. It would still get "All your Attacks" + damage imo due to it being an "extra" part of your attack.

Even without "extra", it seems the same as Dynamite in terms of collateral damage that results from your attack, so it seems to qualify for "any Damage you cause from a Ranged Attack" per the FAQ. (The damage from Dynamite isn't from a direct "hit" just like this wouldn't be.)

Splash damage doesn't qualify because it is hitting the original target.

And since it says shot in the ability text, it definitely doesn't apply to Melee.

My 2 cents. Still worth clarifying. I suspect they may want to reword it to something like "even if you miss it counts as a hit that only does 1 damage." so even all misses would benefit. It seems more in the spirit of +damage affecting attacks that you assign to a particular model.

Hmmmm, you could interpret the phrase "even if the shot would normally have missed." to mean that the shot is no longer missing with this extra 1 Damage. That would solve any problems because it would always be a "successful To Hit roll".
 
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I have no complaints about compiling a list of specific items that should be limited to one, since it could be a sign of proofreading errors that could be corrected in future printings (or new product design.)

There is a HUGE HOLE in the argument that cards must be removed from the deck. As designed and marketed, the game can be played in campaign mode with just a single base set. This creates a situation where the artifact deck can be exhausted because the hero posse owns most of the items and is reduced to getting side-bag tokens artifacts (which presumably would return the card to the deck.)

Shadows of Brimstone is not a competitive game that's played in a tournament setting. It doesn't matter that Jee decides to remove cards from the deck while Adria writes it down because this the effect it has on someone's life:

Mr. Worf scowled as he closed his web browser. "There is no glory in Adria's post about her victory over the Harbinger. A Klingon would never use two Judge Pistols!" Worf's furrowed brow added more wrinkles than usual as he growled, "It is without honor."
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Autoduelist wrote:
Mr. Worf scowled as he closed his web browser. "There is no glory in Adria's post about her victory over the Harbinger. A Klingon would never use two Judge Pistols!" Worf's furrowed brow added more wrinkles than usual as he growled, "It is without honor."
I totally say stuff like this all the time

You're quite correct - there is no rule against keeping cards in the decks after you find them (or at least, putting them in the discard pile such that they could be found again later on during the same session after a reshuffle). I wasn't attempting to say that there was, only that it was my opinion that the current landscape supports the notion. Support and Proof are very different things; I make no official claim in either direction. However, I do still feel like the issue could be mostly resolved with a single question regarding the "official" way to handle keeping cards vs. tossing them back (and if they go in the DC pile or back in the deck; would lean towards the latter in this case), rather than trying to compile a giant list. We can always make the list later, if the answer comes back as "yes, officially you put the card in the DC pile so it can be gotten again."

However, I DO firmly believe that if you don't hold every game to the same standard as a tournament-ready competitive game, you will end up with lousy games that lose their appeal quickly. That fact that a game is Co-Op is no excuse for flimsy rules. FFP knows this, which is why they were keen on releasing an FAQ at all.

- Jee
 
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I think the list limiting items still has merit entirely independent of the discard/keep card question because it represents a proofreading error. I'm glad this game was created by Flying Frog Productions and not Eagle Games, because then it would be called Shadows of Brimestone.

There clearly are items in Shadows of Brimstone that are intended to be limit one per hero, but they don't actually say that on the card. Otherwise, a hero could have three no-weight Looking Glasses, gain +3 Cunning (provided they don't go over 6 Cunning), and gain 3 Grit (one per Looking Glass) every time they pass a Cunning test. Would I do this myself? No. Would Jee do this? No. Does that still make what was printed on the card correct from an editing perspective? No. Would Jason Hill include this question in the FAQ? Probably not, but he'd remember the information when designing cards in the future.

Quote:
However, I DO firmly believe that if you don't hold every game to the same standard as a tournament-ready competitive game, you will end up with lousy games that lose their appeal quickly. That fact that a game is Co-Op is no excuse for flimsy rules.

I think the problem here is in your definition of rules. Tax code and Generally Accepted Accounting Principles (GAAP) sometimes allow several different treatments for the same transaction, all of which are considered legal and correct. Not everything in life is, or should be, codified into one-size-fits-all rules. There is pragmatic reasons and anecdotal evidence that supports both interpretations of the discard/keep card argument, so why can't they both be correct?
 
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Autoduelist wrote:
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I can certainly understand the high cost of doing so many illustrations. But the Town cards and card editor have been very popular among the fans. Several of us worked together to make the full Town and Town expansion cards so we could have a full set. I personally like keeping the cards with my character sheet, that's why I wanted all the town items too.

Scott Hill liked the idea of Town cards too, but it didn't make the cut for business reasons. Money spent on town cards meant less money spent on other parts of the game, and from a design perspective, it would definitely translate into less items for each town location since the decision process would always have to be - "Do we want to spend the money to create an illustration and generate a card for that?" With the current process, it's just a matter of adding text to the Town chart.

Enforcement has nothing to do with whether Flying Frog personally likes or dislikes a community project. It's U.S. Trademark & Copyright law that forces Flying Frog to shut these projects down when they become aware of them, or else they lose their trademark. Trademarks cover things like the Flying Frog company logo, the Shadows Brimstone logo, etc. Once a trademark is gone, anybody can use the trademarked material, which means another game company or miniature manufacturer could produce and sell Shadows of Brimstone-branded merchandise for a profit, which is what the real danger is for Flying Frog when they learn about free/not-for-profit fan mods.
I can understand that but to be honest, it doesn't seem to actually happen. Most publishers don't seem to care about fan content since they consider it added benefit. Steve Jackson Games (one of the notoriously few that does chase fan content) has a fan system in place now which just requires a notice placed in the docs that recognizes who owns the copyright. I had to deal with it on some Ogre box dividers and it wasn't too bad to deal with. If they are indeed that worried, they should consider doing something similar and allow fans to "get creative" filling in the parts they can't or won't do.
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It's only what's written in the legal code that counts. It hasn't become an issue for the game industry because nobody's tried to assert that a company has lost its trademark because they explicitly or implicitly endorsed fan mods, so the infringing party has a right to publish material under that trademark for profit without paying royalties. It'd be catastrophic for the games industry and radically alter their perspective on fan-made content, but it would be an interesting legal defense.

As the rights holder, Flying Frog is free to issue whatever requirements they want to use their IP. What you're addressing is the practical enforcement issue, if the fan mod isn't generating any money and it costs the publisher time, money, and bad publicity to shut it down, it may not be worth their time. This happened just last week when Take 2 Games shut down a Grand Theft Auto mod.

Most companies (knowingly) turn a blind eye to fan mods that aren't making money, but if it becomes too public for them to meet the reasonable person / "I'm just an innocent babe in the woods" defense for their ignorance of trademark or copyright infringement, they have to shut it down. Based on what we've seen so far, posting about Town Decks on BGG and providing links to Printer Studio poses some risk to the poster.

I suppose now would be a good time to remind people that I'm not a licensed attorney and I don't hold this out as legal advice.

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Autoduelist wrote:
I think the list limiting items still has merit entirely independent of the discard/keep card question because it represents a proofreading error. I'm glad this game was created by Flying Frog Productions and not Eagle Games, because then it would be called Shadows of Brimestone.

There clearly are items in Shadows of Brimstone that are intended to be limit one per hero, but they don't actually say that on the card. Otherwise, a hero could have three no-weight Looking Glasses, gain +3 Cunning (provided they don't go over 6 Cunning), and gain 3 Grit (one per Looking Glass) every time they pass a Cunning test. Would I do this myself? No. Would Jee do this? No. Does that still make what was printed on the card correct from an editing perspective? No. Would Jason Hill include this question in the FAQ? Probably not, but he'd remember the information when designing cards in the future.
Let me start by re-stating that we don't know which system of card-handling, if any, is officially correct. Given that, no one can say for sure any of them are wrong or right. You gotta go with what you think is best for the game, and my reasoning for my particular choice is well documented here. However, it's incorrect to say that just because we don't know the answer, that there is no wrong answer.

However, since it came up - it would be exceedingly difficult for a Hero to get 3 Looking Glasses at my table, as they would all have to come from Heroes who found it on their own while no one else in the posse had one. Then 2 of them would have to agree to give theirs up to the 3rd guy. This is because I remove cards from the decks if someone in the current posse has one, so I can hand it to that person, so that game can be card-driven. And if this actually happened, I would probably let them do it (since it's legal and nigh impossible) but it's true - I would give them a Genuine GM Scowl (GGMS). Being able to basically refill your grit once per Cunning test is clearly overpowered. I see your point here. I reverse my original recommendation - leave that list on, and add to it as you see fit.

Autoduelist wrote:
I think the problem here is in your definition of rules. Tax code and Generally Accepted Accounting Principles (GAAP) sometimes allow several different treatments for the same transaction, all of which are considered legal and correct. Not everything in life is, or should be, codified into one-size-fits-all rules.
I don't need one-size-fits-all rules-set for everything in life (although that is the aspiration of all science); I would be happy with just one for this game. A rule is a statement that describes exactly one functionality for every possible combination of givens. This isn't a problem - it's the definition of a robust rule, and it's the foundation of all mechanical systems. Treating many situations the same way is different from treating the same situation many ways. And the latter is why what we're trying to avoid by having an FAQ. We want one right answer per question we're asking, right?

Autoduelist wrote:
There is pragmatic reasons and anecdotal evidence that supports both interpretations of the discard/keep card argument, so why can't they both be correct?
I agree that we don't know which version, if either, is official. Since we don't know, no one can tell you you're doing it wrong. But the existence of this FAQ tells me that you are unsatisfied with that answer. Surely you not OK with bits and pieces of the official game remaining unsupported, officially. Personally, I wanna know. I wanna know that there IS an official system, and I wanna know what it is. This is hack n' slash dungeon crawl - it would be a surprising shame if the rules governing the foundations of loot saturation didn't like ... exist at all in some official form.

- Jee
 
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Another datapoint for the keep/discard card argument. I don't see anything in the rules prohibiting multiple copies of the same set (card packs, other worlds). The only rules I've seen are assigning elite abilities when you run out of enemy figures and a FAQ question recommending that the Loot Deck, Scavenge Deck, and Map Decks not be duplicated, which means Mine Artifact and Gear Decks would be okay.

Maybe somebody likes the Serpent Skull Helmet and wants their posse to be able to find more than one, so they buy a second Jargano artifact deck; or maybe they bought that extra deck by mistake, so they use it.
 
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