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Shadows of Brimstone: City of the Ancients» Forums » Rules

Subject: Official Shadows of Brimstone FAQ question thread. rss

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Neil Edmonds
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Sentient Chains Error ADDED
 
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Philip Jelley
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A Brutal Swamp Raptor has 60 Health (+5 per Hero), a Young Swamp Raptor has "a base Health of 25 (instead of 40) +5 per Hero", so what Health does a Brutal Young Swamp Raptor have?
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Neil Edmonds
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Young Brutal Swamp Raptors ADDED.

If I understand this question correctly, there's a card that modifies the Swamp Raptor enemy sheet to make them "Young"? This might be worth aggregating with other examples so all the cases can be documented.

I suspect the answer will be the "Young" Brutal Swamp Raptor has a base health equal to the difference between the Regular & Brutal adult Swamp Raptor's base values. For example, if the regular Swamp Raptor had a base 40 health before posse size modifiers and the Brutal Swamp Raptor had a base 50 health before posse size modifiers, the difference is 10, so the Young Brutal Raptor would start off with 35 health (25 + 10).

This is how my friends and I have been playing it, but it should be documented in the rules.
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Adam Mitchell
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I'm having a lot of fun with my Mine Cart while off work, but that means that questions keep popping up.

1. Additional "Holding the Bridge" Mission question: If you roll a two on the HBTD roll and are Ambushed, do those monsters stick around and keep trying to kill you, or do they behave from the first turn like the monsters entering from the entry points?

2. Please do post my question as to whether Void Hounds and Terralisks come through the entry points in that mission or appear next to the Heroes.

3. Can a Terralisk or Sand Crab burrow under a Void Vortex to reach his target? Can a Hellbat or even an Ancient One fly over one to reach his target?


Oh, and thanks, Inspector: I've long thought that the Sinister Experiments SHOULD only draw from the Mine Threat decks; nice to have your my verdict confirmed and supported.
 
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Neil Edmonds
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Holding Back the Bridge Void Hounds ADDED
Ambushes during Holding Back the Bridge ADDED
 
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Kristof Verhoeven
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Autoduelist wrote:
Most companies (knowingly) turn a blind eye to fan mods that aren't making money, but if it becomes too public for them to meet the reasonable person / "I'm just an innocent babe in the woods" defense for their ignorance of trademark or copyright infringement, they have to shut it down. Based on what we've seen so far, posting about Town Decks on BGG and providing links to Printer Studio poses some risk to the poster.
I think that posting links to a specific company that will print those cards for you means that said company is essentially making money off of FFP's property. Perhaps the company doing the printing isn't willfully (or even knowingly) infringing the copyright, but the poster who advertises their service definitely is.

On the other hand, providing just the illustrations of cards (no matter in which file format) that you can then print at home (or at a local copy shop, or even with an online card-printing service) should not be a problem.

It's like you can make software that rips content from copy-protected DVDs, and you can make software that writes content to DVDs, but combine the two in one package and you've made something that allows you to do something illegal.
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Neil Edmonds
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Flying Frog cited the use of their illustrations and logos as one of the reasons for removing the cards from Printer Studio. Trademark law specifies the trademark holder loses their trademark only if they become aware of the infringement and then do nothing about it. Uploading to Printer Studio and talking about it in the BGG forum for Flying Frog's games is a pretty visible act.

The trademark/copyright is still being violated when you use your local copy shop or home printer, but since the local copy shop doesn't check what their customers are doing and Flying Frog isn't made aware of the infringement, there isn't any enforcement.

If you look through some RPG books, you'll see that some role-playing publishers allow duplication of the character record sheets to play the game, but forbid copying other sections of the book. Those provisions were included to make the local copy shop example entirely legal.

[Edit] Just to head off any discussions about fair use, the file sharing cases for Napster and other music services made the uploading of digital content problematic, because even though a defendant could prove they had a fair use right to the copyrighted material, they couldn't make the same assertions about anyone else accessing the content online. The best result in those circumstances is a finding of negligence, but I suspect words like "reckless" or "willful" would more likely be used in the verdict.

Flying Frog has, to my knowledge, been very reasonable about asking people to take things down. Nobody's been intimidated, sued, or forced to pay fines, nor have there been any draconian measures instituted like forbidding all fan modifications to their games.

I should also point out that I am not a licensed attorney and I do not hold out what I say as legal advice.
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Kristof Verhoeven
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That's pretty clear I'd say. Thanks NEil.

Anyway, to get this thread back on track:
Quote:
This question has not been answered yet, despite the FAQ addressing the related - and somewhat more general - question of what happens when Initiative values change mid-Turn. Put another way, we now have a answer to what happens mid-Turn, but not necessarily mid-Activation.

It is my opinion that Activations cannot be interrupted by other Activations (there is no precedent for that anywhere in the rules or in the content), so I believe that the answer to this is: "once you start your Activation, you get to finish it before anything else Activates" - if this is true, then changes to your Init mid-activation have no effect of your ability to continue it.

However, we don't know for sure and it would be nice if FFP added something to that ruling to account for these specifics.
I've been wondering if this even matters? For what it's worth, I don't think there exists something like "mid-activation", as activation just determines at what point you start being active (i.e. when you get to play YOUR turn).

There are ways to (temporarily) modify your Initiative before activation, so you can either activate sooner, or activate later in return for some benefit (already covered by "changing your initiative mid-turn"). At this point in the game, the purpose of initiative is to determine the order of activation.

I can see reasons for wanting to increase your initiative during YOUR turn (after activation), to have a higher value to use for tests. I can also see reasons why your Initiative might decrease during your turn, as an effect of one or more of your actions.
But that would also be covered by "changing your initiative mid turn". There's no further game impact other than that altered value, since the old initiative value was already used to determine the order of activation, and you've already activated.

At the end of the combat turn however, your altered Initiative value will decide the next combat turn's activation order.
So if your goal was to delay the activation of someone or something this turn, you've basically just missed the opportunity as they're already active.

So mid-activation doesn't exist, as any time before someone's had a chance to do anything at all is still "before activation", since they're not active yet ...
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Jee Fu
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exarch404 wrote:
I've been wondering if this even matters? For what it's worth, I don't think there exists something like "mid-activation", as activation just determines at what point you start being active (i.e. when you get to play YOUR turn).
The caster classes - Preacher and Dark Stone Shaman (and Huckster if you're playing with it) - can use the spells whenever they like, including in the middle of their or someone else's Activation. Some of their spells modify a Hero's Initiative, so it would nice to have rules to cover this. I'm still of the opinion that Activations are discrete, and cannot be interrupted by whole other Activations.

exarch404 wrote:

At the end of the combat turn however, your altered Initiative value will decide the next combat turn's activation order.
So if your goal was to delay the activation of someone or something this turn, you've basically just missed the opportunity as they're already active.
I'm not sure what you mean here. Generally Init buffs/debuffs last until the end of the Turn. Most of the time, using those abilities isn't going to effect the following Turn.

exarch404 wrote:
So mid-activation doesn't exist, as any time before someone's had a chance to do anything at all is still "before activation", since they're not active yet ...
Spells. And Abilities/Items/Side Bag Tokens that can be used any time (Battle Scout, Flash Powder, etc). There are dozens of effects in the game that can modify your Initiative mid-Activation.

- Jee
 
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Kristof Verhoeven
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Inspector Jee wrote:
Spells. And Abilities/Items/Side Bag Tokens that can be used any time (Battle Scout, Flash Powder, etc). There are dozens of effects in the game that can modify your Initiative mid-Activation.
I realise that. But is "mid activation" the right word? As soon as someone or something's activated, activation itself is over and that hero or monster is now the active player. Anything that happens to initiative now follows the rule in the FAQ: "If they haven’t already Activated, that Hero or Enemy group Activates as soon as the currently Activating Hero/Enemy Group is finished." No matter whose initiative is modified, the currently active hero/monster finishes their turn.

While any initiative modification might impact the rest of that hero/monster's turn with regards to abilities that depend on them, it doesn't mean someone else suddenly gets to play their own turn, as they've either already activated and played, or have to wait until this hero/monster is finished before they can become the new active player. I'm sure many interrupting actions can be done at any point during another hero/monster's turn. In that case, the only sensible thing to do is "last in > first out": whoever interrupted gets to finish their interrupting action, then the interrupted player continues (the classic rule for situations with stacked interruptions).

Interrupting actons aren't activations though. I seriously doubt there's anything that allows you to activate your hero in the middle of someone else's turn. You can interrupt them as often as your spells/abilities/items allow, but after you're done, they finish their turn and then it's on to the next hero/monster.

Either way, at no point is the changing of an attribute going to impact an interrupted player from finishing their turn, unless the modified attribute is health or sanity and it's been reduced to 0.
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Kristof Verhoeven
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Inspector Jee wrote:
exarch404 wrote:

At the end of the combat turn however, your altered Initiative value will decide the next combat turn's activation order.
So if your goal was to delay the activation of someone or something this turn, you've basically just missed the opportunity as they're already active.
I'm not sure what you mean here. Generally Init buffs/debuffs last until the end of the Turn. Most of the time, using those abilities isn't going to effect the following Turn.
I believe some initiative modifiers remain until your next activation, which means they don't reset at the end of the combat turn, but only reset after you've activated. I could be wrong though.
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Neil Edmonds
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I'm doing one of my periodic reviews of the various forums for more questions. It would be swell if a new version of the FAQ was available for the Flying Frog Dicefest convention.

Outlaw turning in Wanted Posters ADDED
Initiative Combat value for Kraken Born Warlord ADDED
Bonus Elite Abilities cascading to additional Threat cards ADDED

Do we have a consensus on the question to ask regarding initiative? I always thought my follow-up on that one was a bit lacking regarding specific details.

 
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Jee Fu
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exarch404 wrote:
Inspector Jee wrote:
Spells. And Abilities/Items/Side Bag Tokens that can be used any time (Battle Scout, Flash Powder, etc). There are dozens of effects in the game that can modify your Initiative mid-Activation.
I realise that. But is "mid activation" the right word? As soon as someone or something's activated, activation itself is over and that hero or monster is now the active player. Anything that happens to initiative now follows the rule in the FAQ: "If they haven’t already Activated, that Hero or Enemy group Activates as soon as the currently Activating Hero/Enemy Group is finished." No matter whose initiative is modified, the currently active hero/monster finishes their turn.

While any initiative modification might impact the rest of that hero/monster's turn with regards to abilities that depend on them, it doesn't mean someone else suddenly gets to play their own turn, as they've either already activated and played, or have to wait until this hero/monster is finished before they can become the new active player. I'm sure many interrupting actions can be done at any point during another hero/monster's turn. In that case, the only sensible thing to do is "last in > first out": whoever interrupted gets to finish their interrupting action, then the interrupted player continues (the classic rule for situations with stacked interruptions).

Interrupting actons aren't activations though. I seriously doubt there's anything that allows you to activate your hero in the middle of someone else's turn. You can interrupt them as often as your spells/abilities/items allow, but after you're done, they finish their turn and then it's on to the next hero/monster.

Either way, at no point is the changing of an attribute going to impact an interrupted player from finishing their turn, unless the modified attribute is health or sanity and it's been reduced to 0.
I don't ... quite ... know what we're discussing here. There is most certainly a "mid-activation" concept, because in many, many places (the rules for the Wandering Samurai's use of Battle Tactics for instance), the rules use the terminology "during your Activation" or "At the Start of your ACtivation" or "At the End of your Activation." We don't have to call the time between "mid-activation" if you don't want to, but an Activation is clearly more than an instant; "Activation" refers to the entire time between when a Hero/Enemy-Type starts going and when it's done going.

This is all moot tho; my original conclusion on this seems to be in agreement with you - that you once you start going, no one can take their Activation (or "can go") until you're done. This is not explicitly stated in the rules tho, which when combined with the notion that "Models Activate in Initiative Order" may cause some confusion for new players. A simple clarification will officially solve this.

Autoduelist, I defer to you on this. It's not a particularly sticky point for me as I believe that we're all basically in agreement that Activations can't interrupt other Activations (Hero can't go in the middle of other Heroes going). But there are things in the FAQ which are far less ambiguous that managed to get billing.

- Jee
 
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Neil Edmonds
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Okay, it's sounds like this got vetted out and the question is answered, so I'll remove it. Thank you for the detailed discussion about all the activation effects Jee; it seems like Jason Hill consulted your list of potential impacts when writing the first edition of the FAQ.
 
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Okay, there seems to be numerous questions about the Mr. Scratch Travel Hazard, and disagreement about the answers(https://boardgamegeek.com/
thread/1843584/traveler-road-mr-scratchs-deal), so I figured those were worth posting to this thread to get clear answers.

1. Does the player who made the deal have to be the one to roll the 66 Travel Hazard again to be taken away, or will he be taken away if any posse member rolls that Travel Hazard?
2. In either case, is it enough to roll the 66 Travel Hazard, or do you also have to roll a 6 to make sure the Traveler is Mr. Scratch, thus making it much less likely that the character will be taken away?
3. Travel Hazard 66 specifies that it cannot be rerolled or canceled, but since the Trederran Stallion says it can be used to "avoid" a Travel Hazard, does that let you dodge Travel Hazard 66?
4. Since Mr. Scratch takes the Hero away, I presume the fact that there is no body makes resurrection at the Church impossible?
 
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My personal "List of Issues" has reached critical mass, and I'm ready for the next round. Here is what I have:

1) We have a lot of questions regarding what +Damage applies to (if the effect doesn't specifically mention that it applies to Attacks), but I'm fairly certain that a by-the-book interpretation of the FAQ answers a lot of those questions: if a Hit wasn't generated directly by a successful To-Hit roll, than +Damage doesn't apply to it. We can safely conclude that splash Hits (like from the Plasma Arc or from Cerberus Shots), Sermon Hits, auto-Hits of any kind, and basically anything that doesn't say Hit at all (like Book of the Mad King, Ring of Oro'sia, and the various errata'ed forms of Through-Shot) don't benefit from normal +Damage. We can also conclude that if any of the aforementioned effects come from something labelled as an Attack then they WILL benefit from +Damage as long as the effect that gives them said +Damage says that it applies to "All Attacks". For example, Dirty Fighting will affect Darkstone Shivs (because using one is an Attack), but not Spinning Kick (cause its not). A Mark of the Dead will effect neither, because neither of them makes you roll To-Hit.

So I feel we clean up that area of questions.

There is - however - one mechanic in this vein that I believe still warrants attention: how +Damage interacts with effects that say they generate "Hits with the same [Gun|Hand Weapon]". To my knowledge, there is only one left in the game (the other being pre-errata Through-Shot) and that is the Cowboy Starting Upgrade, Trick Shooting. It says that when you assign a Hit from a Gun, you can spend a Grit to do D3 extra Hits with the same Gun to other Enemies in a chain starting from the Target. If a Cowboy attacks with a Repeating Rifle - which has +1 Damage native, listed on the Gear Card - and I use Trick Shooting, do the extra Hits get that +1 Damage (or any other +Damage)? A strict reading of the FAQ says "no, because you didn't roll a To-Hit roll for each of those extra Hits". This answer is confusing tho, because why have the extra text denoting that these Hits are from the same Gun if they're not gonna be treated as such? There are edge cases where the source Gun matters for things other than +Damage, but it's worth asking what the intent here is. Perhaps Trick Shooting is slated for a Through-Shot-esque errata and will have that wording stripped from it to avoid confusion.


2) Upgrade Slot Buffs on Weapons vs. Other Equipped Things. If I put a Mark of the Hunter on my Pistol, does that Upgrade apply to all the Hits I assign (from successful To-Hit rolls) or just the ones from that Gun. I ask, because if I put it in my Boots instead, the answer is obvious (all). I want to know if putting Upgrades that normally effect ALL my Hits into a Ranged Weapon narrows the effects of that Upgrade to only that weapon (because of how Attacking with Ranged Weapons works).


3) The FAQ says:

Melee Free Attacks have a listed Combat value that is used instead of the Hero’s Combat value. They do NOT gain any Combat bonuses or modifiers that would normally affect the Hero’s normal Melee Attacks, such as those granted by other Hand Weapons that are equipped. (emphasis mine).

Does this refer only to things that modify a Hero's Combat value? What about other static buffs granted by Weapons? For instance: if I have a Mark of the Hunter on my Baseball Bat of Destiny and make a Free Attack with my Desert Boots, do Hits from that Attack get +Damage against Beasts?

What if the Mark is in my Duster instead (same situation)?

The FAQ mentions Melee Free Attacks. What about Ranged Free Attacks? Anything different there?


4) The rules used the words "assigned" and "equipped" in various places to talk about what a Hero has available for use on her Activation. What is the difference between these terms, if any?

The Scout Bag mentions that you can't "Equip" stuff in the bag without taking it OUT of the bag; does this have any effect on things that don't have equipment slots (Hand-Icon/Clothing Slot)? Put another way, do you need to "Equip" items like Amulets, Rings, Tomb Chests, Scrolls, Void Cystals etc. in order for them to be available for use? This has an effect on trading Items mid-Turn because if you have to go through an "Equip phase" at the start of your [Activation] in order to make use of stuff, it means that if a Hero trades you a Canteen after you've already Activated this Turn, you won't be able to drink from it until your next Activation. If no such restriction exists (and you're able to drink from Canteen immediately upon receipt), then it also means that the Scout Bag's restriction only matters for Weapons and Clothing, and you can pretty much use it unrestricted for Anvil-Items that don't possess those Keywords.


5) What Side-Bag Tokens are you allowed to use on other Heroes? Bandages and Whiskey are explicitly stated in the Rules (albeit a little hard to find) as things one Hero can use on another, but nothing else is mentioned. It seems reasonable that regular Herbs and Tequila follow this example, but what about Exotic Herbs or Anti-Rad? Now that you gain XP for healing other Heroes' Corruption, can we use these on other Heroes and if so, is the range restriction the same (same time out of combat, otherwise adjacent)?


6) We still have Gambler problems. The FAQ told us how the Gambler Trick Fortune's Favor works in the new Grit-context, but there is still some contradictions in what Tricks can modify in relation to the new Grit-restrictions established in the FAQ. For instance, the rules for the Gambler say:

"These Tricks may be used on any dice, not just your own (including Enemy To Hit rolls, another Hero's To Hit or Defense rolls, etc). As noted on the individual Gambling Tricks though, you may not Re-roll/Modify die rolls that are specifically called out as being excluded from using Grit on"

The new FAQ says:

Grit May not be used to Re-roll any of the Following:
<Dice not rolled by a Hero>
- Enemy To Hit rolls
- Enemy Armor rolls
- Enemy Variable Damage rolls
- Enemy Elite Ability rolls
- Enemy Target Selection
- Any roll to pick a Random Hero/Item/Etc.
- Rolls made by other Heroes
(emphasis mine)

These are now in direct contradiction. The examples given in the Gambler rules about what rolls you can use Tricks on are now incorrect, because those rolls are Grit-restricted and therefore unable to be modified by Tricks, by definition. Is this a straight-up nerf to the Gambler or are there multiple levels of dice-mod restriction? (plz no). We need rules that govern what dice Gamblers can modify that don't contradict themselves.

This is important to me, particularly; our session last week almost imploded because there was a disagreement about whether or not the Gambler could modify the roll to see if the Townsfolk was alive at the end of the Mission "Save The Townsfolk". It specifically says that "this roll can't be re-rolled." It says nothing about whether it can be modified, and the new Grit rules weren't specific enough in regards to "rolls made by the Mission". It was my extremely unpopular opinion that such a roll falls under the "Dice Not Rolled By a Hero" category mentioned in the FAQ regarding Grit dis-allowance, and therefore Gambler Tricks are unable to modify them because that's how they work - you can't use them on dice that you can't Grit. In addition I believed that due to the re-roll restriction printed on the actual Mission text (long before any of the content was revised or new content was published), that the spirit of the law didn't want the posse messing with that roll. However, when you look at the Gambler's rules and they blatantly say that Tricks can modify "any dice, not just your own" it's hard to convince a table of your friends that an otherwise successful Mission has to be a loss due of a single poorly rolled dice - especially since the Posse contains a Gambler, and what's the point of them if they can't Tip the Scales of fortune in situations like this? I see their point, and no argument could convince them otherwise due to the contradictions present in the current landscape.

With that in mind, are you allowed to Grit Rolls "made" by the Mission? What about variable rewards that aren't mission rewards (Wanted Posters, Encounter rewards, Town Event rewards, etc)? If Grit restrictions function differently than Gambler Tricks restrictions, what are the differences?


7) Can the Gambler Upgrade Aces High change misses into Hits? Does this mean you can "assign" misses to certain Enemies and, if so, how does that interact with effects that do bad things to you when you miss? Do those misses become Hits before such effects take place? Do those effects always go first before assignment?


8) When an effect or item talks about "drawing a Straight Line" (like the Darkstone Prism), does this mean it has to be directly orthogonal or diagonal? Put another way, does this line have to be straight up/down, straight left/right, or direct diagonal? Or can it be like "3 spaces right, 1 space up, 3 spaces right, 1 space up, etc" as long as the slope is consistent through-out?


9) The rules for the Wasteland Barter Town say that you have the option to visit it as long as you "Complete an Adventure while in the Blasted Wastes". Does this mean that all Heroes need to be in the Blasted Wastes at the end of the Mission, or can only some of them be in order to take advantage of the Barter Town? What if no Heroes are in the Blasted Wastes, but that World is still on board (perhaps you passed through using Portals or the final Fight spilled back into the Mines and by the time it was over, no Hero was in the Wastes)?


10) Can the Telescope cancel Travel Hazards that the Hero who HAS the Telescope didn't roll? What about Happy Trails? What about Don't Make Him Angry? Is there a general rule for what Travel-Hazard-Modifying affects can/can't be used on other people's Hazards?

Who is considered to be the Hero rolling the Travel Hazard if they're obtained by an external effect (say, a mission loss that adds extra Hazards)?

What order do we resolve Travel Hazards in? Does the posse have to completely resolve one Hero's total "stock" of Hazards before moving on to the next Hero or can they, say, go round-robin one at a time until all of them are complete? Can we choose who goes first?


11) In what order is Unwanted Attention applied/rolled-for at the End of a Day in Town, in accordance with the new rules in the FAQ? The FAQ says that in the cases where multiple effects happen on the same trigger, the Heroes can choose the order. This can result in someone being able to make $500+ at the Saloon/Gambling Hall, but choosing to make the Unwanted Attention check before gaining their Unwanted Attention for winning money, thus always being at 1 Unwanted Attention marker less than you might expect (which means the first $500+ visit is Unwanted Attention roll-free). Is this intended?

Does the Street Market give you Unwanted Attention when you gamble there, and win? What about the Town Locations in the Wasteland Barter Town? The rules for the Frontier Town Expansion mention only the Saloon and Gambling Hall, but there are many other places to gamble.

What is meant by "winning money from gambling" when it comes to getting Unwanted Attention at the end of the Town Day? Does it mean "you won even a single instance of gambling" or does it mean "you total gambling wins out-weight your total gambling losses"?


12) Should the Enemy ability "Flight" follow the same rules as the Darkstone Shaman's spell Eagle Flight? The latter mentions Pits and Cover Terrain as things that are ignored; the former does not (although Pits are handled in the Rulebooks for the expansions that contain them). What about teleport effects, such as Teleportation Bracelet (Targa Artifact)? Does this function the same way (can the Hero using it's ability ignore Pits and Cover Terrain)? What about the Shadow Bracelet (Targa Artifact)? It uses the same terminology that the Teleportation Bracelet and Flight does, but thematically it might not be intended to let you avoid Pits and Terrain.

Do any of these effects allow you to ignore mid-board Walls (either in Town or otherwise)? Can you use the Teleportation Bracelet (or possibly the Shadow Bracelet) to either get on the Roof OR into a building through a Wall (flying models can't do the latter)?


13) On the Town Mission "Hanging High" it says that the Corrupt U.S. Marshals will not be alerted until either a) a Hero fails their check at the end of their Move or b) they are Attacked. RAW, I could Smite, Shockwave, and/or Cleansing Fire those guys all day long and they wouldn't care since Sermons aren't Attacks. Is this intended? (I'm aware of the Townsfolk that are able to take AoE Damage, but none of those Sermons affect anything but "Enemies" so that's not a concern).


14) Does the Battle Tactic Dancing Dragon allow you to ignore Escape Tests while jumping from Enemy to Enemy?


15) Broken Grates can technically be stood upon by Models. How does this work with Enemy Placement? Are Grates considered free spaces that Enemy Models should be placed on (assuming they have the ability to Move through other Models), or do they "take up" spaces like Corpse Piles and Pylons do during placement?


16) Can a Depth Event still count as a "failure to Hold Back the Darkness" if the total roll is less than what is normally needed, even if it doesn't move the Darkness Marker? There are many, many effects in the game that trigger "whenever Hold Back the Darkness is failed" and I want to know if Depth Events can trigger them (assuming the total roll is insufficient)?


17) The FAQ says that multiple instances of the same Posse-wide effect don't stack if multiple Heroes have it listed on their sheet. But what if a single Hero has two instances of the same effect, gained by independently? For instance, if we roll Blood Moon twice during the same Travel Step, do we get TWO Growing Dread cards per Depth Event during the next Adventure (and also +2 Spirit)?


18) The FAQ says you can't have multiple vision quest bonuses per Hero, but it doesn't say you can't repeatedly make the Spirit Test and gain the 25 XP, once per Day in Town (if all you want to do is farm XP at the Trading Post). Is this intended?


19) How do Void Sorcerers (and Enemies like them) act in the Mission "Defend the Bridge" (Cynder book)? The rules for that mission say the Enemies only care about the Heroes if they're within 2 spaces of them at the Start of their Activations AND they roll a 1/2 on a D6. If they don't care, and they run, and they have an Attack/Ranged Attack, then they use it against a Random Hero in Range/LOS. But Void Sorcs only have a Ranged Attack half the time (due to another roll made at the Start of their Activation). What is the proper way to reconcile this? Do you instead roll for Spell/Ranged-Attack after the Void Sorc makes his b-line toward the exit, rather than at the Start of its Activation (if it chose to ignore Heroes)? What about other Ranged Enemies (or Enemies with Shootout)? Will they make Ranged Attacks even if they end in Melee?


20) There are many times when the game instructs you to move Enemies "along the shortest route" to something. What happens if the Enemy is completely cut off from that and they're already as close as they can be? This matters in missions like "Defend the Bridge" where if an Enemy is prevented from moving it's full move by a Hero it will go Berserk and gain extra combat when it Attacks. But there are situations when this is easily compromised by savvy Hero placement. For instance, imagine all of the following statements are true:

- the Enemy will try to make a b-line for the exit
- the Enemy cannot make progress toward that goal because it is blocked off completely by other Models
- the Enemy will gain no ground towards that goal by moving at all (it is already as close as it can relative to the spaces it CAN move to)
- the Enemy isn't currently next to any Heroes
- the Enemy could legally move to a Hero and Attack (despite its final destination placing it further away from its goal)

RAW, that Enemy just sits there and does nothing because it wants to get closer, can't, and isn't next to any Heroes. Is this intended?


Ok, there you have it. Good luck, everybody else.

- Jee
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Neil Edmonds
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I can answer Mr. Scratch already:

Quote:
1. Does the player who made the deal have to be the one to roll the 66 Travel Hazard again to be taken away, or will he be taken away if any posse member rolls that Travel Hazard?

Mr. Scratch is approaching a specific hero, so yes, the hero with an existing deal would have to be the one who rolled the travel hazard. There's nothing saying Mr. Scratch isn't trying to corrupt the rest of the posse. As Jee said in the other thread, he gives a knowing wink to the other deal takers and says "I'll be seeing you later."

Quote:
2. In either case, is it enough to roll the 66 Travel Hazard, or do you also have to roll a 6 to make sure the Traveler is Mr. Scratch, thus making it much less likely that the character will be taken away?

Yes, because you're rolling the number of the beast - 666. If you rolled 665, the neighbor of the beast, you don't encounter Mr. Scratch.

Quote:
3. Travel Hazard 66 specifies that it cannot be rerolled or canceled, but since the Trederran Stallion says it can be used to "avoid" a Travel Hazard, does that let you dodge Travel Hazard 66?

No, you can't avoid meeting the mysterious stranger this way since it's already pretty rare. I think there's some wording about "many not be cancelled in any way", which would go to the larger question already asked about the precedence of conflicting game effects.

This is also a small drawback to the Darkstone Horseshoes which allow you to pick one of two travel hazards. If you roll a 66 on one of your two rolls, you *must* take that result. If you roll a '6' for the mysterious visitor, then the visitor is Mr. Scratch.

Quote:
4. Since Mr. Scratch takes the Hero away, I presume the fact that there is no body makes resurrection at the Church impossible?

That's correct, just like being carried off by demons at the campsite. Mr. Scratch is collecting on his debt.
 
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Njorl
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Jee (and others)
To follow up on the mention of side bag tokens. Can you use them on your allies (especially the animal ones)? I'm not too sure how I feel about a drunken mule. It once again brings into question how do you drink whiskey or tequila and help another hero be sane. Not to mention that try as I might, drinking bottles of whiskey do not help out my sanity.

As far as the Gambler issue(I don't have the text in front of me) I think you can allow yourself or another hero to re-roll according to the text. While not a definitive answer, I've interpreted this to be a gritable roll by you or another hero
to hit, defense, orphan story, gambling roll, roll where you might die(doc's office or injury though no permanent bonus)

For the Scout's bag items, I think you can only re-equip at a specific time, unequipped in a bag shouldn't be any different than carried by a mule or henchman.
 
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Jee Fu
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Autoduelist wrote:

Quote:
3. Travel Hazard 66 specifies that it cannot be rerolled or canceled, but since the Trederran Stallion says it can be used to "avoid" a Travel Hazard, does that let you dodge Travel Hazard 66?

No, you can't avoid meeting the mysterious stranger this way since it's already pretty rare. I think there's some wording about "many not be cancelled in any way", which would go to the larger question already asked about the precedence of conflicting game effects.
I agree this is probably the intention, but "ignore" and "cancel" are two distinct things. RAW, you can totally use the Stallion to avoid the 66 roll. This is why we need it FAQ'ed, because many of us think that is "ze bullsheet", despite it being legal.

- Jee
 
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Neil Edmonds
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If people want to play the Soul Donut excuse, let them:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydqkBG22Tk8
 
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Jee Fu
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njep wrote:
Jee (and others)
To follow up on the mention of side bag tokens. Can you use them on your allies (especially the animal ones)? I'm not too sure how I feel about a drunken mule. It once again brings into question how do you drink whiskey or tequila and help another hero be sane. Not to mention that try as I might, drinking bottles of whiskey do not help out my sanity.
You totally can. It says Allies are like Heroes in every way, except for (this list). No where on that list does it say you can't use sidebag tokens on them. In fact, some of them can use sidebag tokens on YOU (especially in Soviet Russia).

njep wrote:
As far as the Gambler issue(I don't have the text in front of me) I think you can allow yourself or another hero to re-roll according to the text. While not a definitive answer, I've interpreted this to be a gritable roll by you or another hero
to hit, defense, orphan story, gambling roll, roll where you might die(doc's office or injury though no permanent bonus)
Right, and I agree given the current FAQ. But its obviously at odds with the intention of the class design to not be able to modify dice that aren't yours. So we need an official ruling.

njep wrote:
For the Scout's bag items, I think you can only re-equip at a specific time, unequipped in a bag shouldn't be any different than carried by a mule or henchman.
Perhaps. But there isn't any mention of having to "equip" items without Clothing Slots or Hand-Icons, so it would be nice to know for sure.

- Jee
 
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Neil Edmonds
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We already had a question in the error section about Cowboy Through Shot. I ADDED Jee's discussion notes.

Just to be clear, do we have consensus on what damage means? Can these questions go away if all damage questions are currently answered?

Do weapons that assign Hits without a To-Hit Roll get Damage Modifiers even though the FAQ says a To-Hit Roll is needed?

Do benefits that apply to "your attack" or "all your attacks" also apply to effects that do damage, but aren't labeled as attacks, specifically:

Does the benefit apply when the Hero uses an item that does damage like the Book of the Mad King, the Ring of Oro’sia, Ash of Shadows, Brimstone Ash, and Book of the Lost?

Does the benefit apply to class abilites like Spinning Kick (Saloon Girl), Swinging Rifle (Rancher), End of the Line (Marshal), Shadow Strike (Scout), Feared by Evil (Drifter) and Parry (Saloon girl)?

Does the benefit apply to Preacher Sermons, Samurai Battle Tactics and Shaman Spells? How about the Shaman's lightning field?

 
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Neil Edmonds
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I'm working through Jee's list, but I'm only partially done, so I won't get it all done in 1 shot.

Cancelling other hero's travel hazards ADDED
Unwanted attention at locations besides Gambling Hall or Saloon ADDED
Marks IGNORED (already in the FAQ)
Cowboy shot discussion ADDED
Mysterious Stranger Cancellation ADDED

Why does it matter the order travel hazards are resolved in? It only seems relevant in regards to the cancellation/ignore effects which we've already covered with a different question. Since hazards are resolved one at a time, part of decision making process for the mulligans is deciding whether the current hazard is worse than something else you might encounter later.


 
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George
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Autoduelist wrote:
We already had a question in the error section about Cowboy Through Shot. I ADDED Jee's discussion notes.

Just to be clear, do we have consensus on what damage means? Can these questions go away if all damage questions are currently answered?

Not really sure what you mean here. I'm still interested in most of these questions.

Autoduelist wrote:
Do weapons that assign Hits without a To-Hit Roll get Damage Modifiers even though the FAQ says a To-Hit Roll is needed?

This is probably not a useful question. I added it on Jee's behalf I think because we were talking about secondary plasma hits or something? Can be dropped as far as I'm concerned.

Autoduelist wrote:
Do benefits that apply to "your attack" or "all your attacks" also apply to effects that do damage, but aren't labeled as attacks, specifically:

Does the benefit apply when the Hero uses an item that does damage like the Book of the Mad King, the Ring of Oro’sia, Ash of Shadows, Brimstone Ash, and Book of the Lost?

Does the benefit apply to class abilites like Spinning Kick (Saloon Girl), Swinging Rifle (Rancher), End of the Line (Marshal), Shadow Strike (Scout), Feared by Evil (Drifter) and Parry (Saloon girl)?

Does the benefit apply to Preacher Sermons, Samurai Battle Tactics and Shaman Spells? How about the Shaman's lightning field?


I'm really interested in these. The main question is what counts as "your attack". Is it JUST your Range/Combat To-Hit roll, or is it more?

For instance, Shaman's Lightning Field has the keyword "Attack" listed at the top.

Some of these may seem obvious, but I think it's good to confirm some of our base assumptions. Especially when they lead to crazy edge cases that we are trying to work out.
 
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I'm not sure we have consensus on all the "splash" effects in the game.

I'm pretty sure about:
Sawed-off Shotgun (per FAQ)
Cerberus Shot
Gunpowder Keg (only the falling debris part?)
Void Hammer

I'm less sure about Plasma Arc which sounds possibly area-of-effect:
Quote:
Plasma Arc - [one hand, Range 8, Shots 1] - Each Hit counts as 2 Hits on the target and 1 Hit on each adjacent Enemy. No Critical Hits.

I'm really hoping going forward (and FOFO) they clearly use the word "Splash" where it is intended.


Edit: Reference:

Quote:
Sawed-Off Shotgun [two hands] - Range 3, Shots 1 - Uses the D8 To Hit and for Damage (6,7,or 8 count as a Critical Hit). Critical Hits also do 1 Wound to every Enemy adjacent to the target, ignoring Defense.

Void Hammer (Blacksmith) - [two hands] - Your Combat Hits are +3 Damage and each Hit does 1 automatic Wound to any Enemies adjacent to the target, ignoring Defense.

Cerberus Shot - You must pay 1 Grit to use a Cerberus Shot. A Cerberus Shot immediately does a free normal Hit (doing D6 damage) to every Enemy adjacent to the target.

Gunpowder Keg - Discard to throw, just like Dynamite. After any Bounce, any models in the same and adjacent spaces take [P] Wounds, ignoring Defense. Any other models on the same Map Tile take 2 Hits from falling Debris.


Edit 2: I just started reading through this thread again. Sorry if Plasma Arc was already settled (not sure it was but I see lots of discussion involving it). But that also sort of points out the need for the FAQ to list all known Splash effects. I shouldn't have to read through a thread to work out the reasoning, or stop to guess. Just list them on the dang FAQ please! There are only half a dozen anyway.
 
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