Mac Mcleod
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My presumption is that Comey is telling the truth and also that after Trump's tweets, he was legally okay to have his friend pass them to the media.

but.... just speaking logically from Trump's perspective.

Either Comey was lying about what Trump said (which trump has stated) and so it wasn't a leak.

OTH, the only way Trump can claim it was a leak was if it was true.
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I don't get people arguing it wasn't a leak. The arguments generally range from 1) he was a private citizen when he leaked the memo to 2) it wasn't classified. Stupid. Anyone that has ever worked subject to confidentiality knows that your duty to hold subjects confidential extends well beyond things that are classified and that that duty doesn't magically go away if you get fired.

But yeah Trump can't have it both ways.
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Sue_G wrote:
I don't get people arguing it wasn't a leak. The arguments generally range from 1) he was a private citizen when he leaked the memo to 2) it wasn't classified. Stupid. Anyone that has ever worked subject to confidentiality knows that your duty to hold subjects confidential extends well beyond things that are classified and that that duty doesn't magically go away if you get fired.


A very great deal of what people complain about when they complain about leaks is the disclosure of classified information. I think a lot of people assume that anything which is described as a leak from the government is of classified information, and mistakenly take those to be synonymous. I'm not sure I wasn't in that category myself until you pointed it out.
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maxo-texas wrote:
just speaking logically from Trump's perspective.


You should try not to do that.
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Pretty sure these were his notes, about a meeting that he had, and unless all discussions with the President are considered top secret/confidential, then this is a non-issue.

Trump is just a man-child flailing in all directions. Did anyone expect anything different?
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rinelk wrote:
Sue_G wrote:
I don't get people arguing it wasn't a leak. The arguments generally range from 1) he was a private citizen when he leaked the memo to 2) it wasn't classified. Stupid. Anyone that has ever worked subject to confidentiality knows that your duty to hold subjects confidential extends well beyond things that are classified and that that duty doesn't magically go away if you get fired.


A very great deal of what people complain about when they complain about leaks is the disclosure of classified information. I think a lot of people assume that anything which is described as a leak from the government is of classified information, and mistakenly take those to be synonymous. I'm not sure I wasn't in that category myself until you pointed it out.


Sure but that probably only affects Comey from the standpoint of what he can get charged with. I would think he knows damn well where the ethical line lies.

I understand why he did it given the lies but let's not pretend he didn't leak confidential info without a subpoena.
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darthhugo wrote:
Pretty sure these were his notes, about a meeting that he had, and unless all discussions with the President are considered top secret/confidential, then this is a non-issue.

Trump is just a man-child flailing in all directions. Did anyone expect anything different?


Generally the duty of confidentiality is much broader. It typically includes embarrassing anecdotes. There are exceptions to it but I doubt Comey meets them. I hope he enjoys retirement. He is done in law enforcement.

But hey, you used man child in a sentence so that makes what you posted correct.
 
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Sue_G wrote:
I understand why he did it given the lies but let's not pretend he didn't leak confidential info without a subpoena.


I don't actually know what counts as confidential. What's relevant to that determination here? You just mentioned that it typically includes embarrassing anecdotes, but that is presumably limited in some way, right? Maybe the employer/employee relationship?
 
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Don't know. Have heard multiple washington lawyers and one journalist say what comey did wasn't a leak on Potus:124, msnbc, and cnn.

Just sayin Trump (or his lawyer) can not say comey's revelation was a leak and also untrue.

 
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Quote:
Those words do not cohere as a legal argument of intimidating precision and strength, said the Fordham law school professor Jed Shugerman, author of the Shugerblog commentary site.

“This should not be called a leak,” Shugerman said of Comey’s decision to pass a personal memo to the media through a friend. “The word ‘leak’ refers to revealing secret and classified information. It is a misuse of the term ‘leak’ to apply that in any way to what Comey described in his testimony.”

Richard Painter, a White House ethics counsel under George W Bush, tweeted that the move could constitute obstruction of justice by the president and “witness intimidation”, since Comey is a witness in any potential case involving the president.

“Trying to get DoJ to go after Comey – a material witness – over ‘leak’ is yet more obstruction of justice,” Painter tweeted.

Trump’s incorrect reference to the Comey memo as a “leak” does not necessarily mean that releasing the memo was lawful, Shugerman cautioned, pointing to seven conceivable scenarios under which Comey’s release of the memo could present a legal hazard.


Going on...

Quote:
Trump’s incorrect reference to the Comey memo as a “leak” does not necessarily mean that releasing the memo was lawful, Shugerman cautioned, pointing to seven conceivable scenarios under which Comey’s release of the memo could present a legal hazard.

Under none of the seven scenarios did Comey appear to be much in danger of transgression, however, Shugerman said. Here are the relevant categories identified by Shugerman, with his analysis in quotations:

Illegal leak: “It’s not an illegal leak, because as Comey clarified in his testimony, he made sure to avoid any question of whether it would be classified or should have been classified or reveal classified information or other secret information. It’s not classified, so it’s not a leak.”
Privilege: “A very ambiguous assertion of privilege without actually identifying the privilege itself. If what they’re asserting is executive privilege, it’s pretty clearly been waived. They had notice and opportunity to invoke executive privilege before his testimony. Trump referred to those conversations himself in his letter on Comey’s firing. And executive privilege is not absolute – it must be balanced with public interest.”
An official FBI document: If Comey’s memo was a so-called Field 302 form, it may be subject to rules for non-release. But the memo was not written as part of a formal investigation, and “if he was trying to make sure that he was preserving a memo for his own use, he would obviously not create a form”.
Non-disclosure agreement: “It’s certainly possible that there’s a non-disclosure agreement within the FBI. But violating a non-disclosure agreement is not necessarily criminal. [And] as far as we’re aware,” there isn’t one.
Federal law governing the handling of public property or records: “It’s quite a stretch to say that just because Comey wrote notes on an FBI government computer, that those notes become an official record … So it’s not an official record, and it’s not larceny of property or conversion of property for personal benefit or gain.”
Internal FBI rules: “I’ve not seen anyone cite a particular internal FBI rule that would have made Comey’s behavior illegal or directly contrary to FBI policy.”
Privacy act: “It’s not an official record, and does not refer to otherwise private matters,” so no.


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jun/09/donald-trump...

https://shugerblog.com/author/jshugerman/

Bonus!
https://istrumpatmaralago.org/

Mr. Trump has been on vacation 8 of 21 weeks at a cost of $26 million dollars so far!

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President @BarackObama's vacation is costing taxpayers millions of dollars——Unbelievable!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) January 5, 2012
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Sue_G wrote:
darthhugo wrote:
Pretty sure these were his notes, about a meeting that he had, and unless all discussions with the President are considered top secret/confidential, then this is a non-issue.

Trump is just a man-child flailing in all directions. Did anyone expect anything different?


Generally the duty of confidentiality is much broader. It typically includes embarrassing anecdotes. There are exceptions to it but I doubt Comey meets them. I hope he enjoys retirement. He is done in law enforcement.

But hey, you used man child in a sentence so that makes what you posted correct.


There is WAY too much conflation of these terms here and elsewhere. Some of this is intentional and some not.

Classified information is a distinct legal category and criminal consequences may ensue if it is divulged without permission.

Confidential information is literally only that which is given in confidence (or in private). If it is between doctor and patient or lawyer and client it may generate it's own penalties if divulged. However, not every private conversation is entitled to the same consideration or protection.

The question which no one in Trump land seems to address is what actual legal duty of confidence was breached by Comey.
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Obviously, I don't know the legal nuances here, but I think it's pretty obvious that Comey does. In giving such a direct answer, rather than a "lawyerly" evasive answer, we can safely assume that Comey is either quite confident that he didn't break the law, or he gave that answer knowing that it would get him in trouble, because he was committed to telling the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
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Looks like Trump is making up for lost time on twitter this morning



There is a reason why all the top legal firms they asked respectfully declined to assist in his defense

(The other reason being the possibility of being stiffed)

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Kumitedad wrote:
Looks like Trump is making up for lost time on twitter this morning



There is a reason why all the top legal firms they asked respectfully declined to assist in his defense

(The other reason being the possibility of being stiffed)



It's all about feeding that die-hard Fox-swilling 30%, demonizing the "Deep State" and James Comey, the man whose firing is liable to become the figurative(!) noose around Trump's neck if we get to impeachment.
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And if we get to impeachment, then 30 years of illegal acts could come spilling out. Winning the presidency may yet to turn out to be one of the worst mistakes the trump family ever made.
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maxo-texas wrote:
And if we get to impeachment, then 30 years of illegal acts could come spilling out. Winning the presidency may yet to turn out to be one of the worst mistakes the trump family ever made.


Methinks that stretches back to the event that led to the siring of DJT.

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Sue_G wrote:
I don't get people arguing it wasn't a leak. The arguments generally range from 1) he was a private citizen when he leaked the memo to 2) it wasn't classified. Stupid. Anyone that has ever worked subject to confidentiality knows that your duty to hold subjects confidential extends well beyond things that are classified and that that duty doesn't magically go away if you get fired.

But yeah Trump can't have it both ways.

I respect your legal opinions and knowledge, but really, why would the president talking to the FBI director have an expectation of privacy (beyond the normal human desire not to have everyone know what they talked about). If Comey was an attorney or a doctor, then yes, his conversations with Trump would fall under the broad range of confidentiality. But basically, to me, it's more like a cop talking to a possible suspect. Without an arrest, he doesn't have to advise Trump of his rights, but still, whatever he says can and will be used against him.

So, there's my reasons. I read your explanation above -- could you go into more detail, please?
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Any expectation Trump had of keeping the content of that meeting private went out the window when he publically insulted Comey after firing him, lying about why he was fired, and then bragged to the Russians that firing Comey would end any investigation into Russian connections with his campaign.

The Comey memos/notes were going to come out in front of Congress eventually - there was no keeping them under wraps once the fact of their existence became known. The only thing releasing them to the media before Congressional testimony did was to hasten the appointment of a special counsel to investigate. With this President's past, his dissembling, and his seeming willingness to obstruct and cover things up, the sooner the special counsel was appointed, the better.
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Sue_G wrote:
darthhugo wrote:
Pretty sure these were his notes, about a meeting that he had, and unless all discussions with the President are considered top secret/confidential, then this is a non-issue.

Trump is just a man-child flailing in all directions. Did anyone expect anything different?


But hey, you used man child in a sentence so that makes what you posted correct.


I'm pretty sure darthhugo meant the preferred "man-baby" when referring to Trump. But "man-child" isn't far off the mark.

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mrspank wrote:
Sue_G wrote:
darthhugo wrote:
Pretty sure these were his notes, about a meeting that he had, and unless all discussions with the President are considered top secret/confidential, then this is a non-issue.

Trump is just a man-child flailing in all directions. Did anyone expect anything different?


But hey, you used man child in a sentence so that makes what you posted correct.


I'm pretty sure darthhugo meant the preferred "man-baby" when referring to Trump. But "man-child" isn't far off the mark.



Both terms apply. Dipshit and Dolt were getting so early 2017s.

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Kumitedad wrote:
There is a reason why all the top legal firms they asked respectfully declined to assist in his defense

(The other reason being the possibility of being stiffed)


speaking as a lawyer, there's a reason we usually make clients pay us retainers in advance, and it's because of people like Donald Trump
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