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Rum & Bones: Second Tide» Forums » Rules

Subject: Rigging w/ Sea Monsters rss

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Maurice Oksman
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So when you take control of a sea monster via the tide card, it interacts as though its an additional hero for your team. Ie, abilities that specifies targeting enemy 'heroes', which includes sea monsters controled by your enemy. The only time this doesn't apply is considering sea monsters niether of you control, ie, kraken.

So here are my two questions, assuming the above statement is correct:

1. Can sea monsters you control take a 'rigging' action when moving? We ruled No, since its seemed very weird considering...but in retrospect i cant see a ruling.

2. Does the kraken's 2nd ability, tentacle crush, target Sea monsters controlled by players? We ruled yes, since they are considered heroes when conrolled by players.
 
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Nicolas Tremblay
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Maurice_Oksman wrote:
So when you take control of a sea monster via the tide card, it interacts as though its an additional hero for your team. Ie, abilities that specifies targeting enemy 'heroes', which includes sea monsters controled by your enemy. The only time this doesn't apply is considering sea monsters niether of you control, ie, kraken.

So here are my two questions, assuming the above statement is correct:

1. Can sea monsters you control take a 'rigging' action when moving? We ruled No, since its seemed very weird considering...but in retrospect i cant see a ruling.

2. Does the kraken's 2nd ability, tentacle crush, target Sea monsters controlled by players? We ruled yes, since they are considered heroes when conrolled by players.



Actually the Rulebook specifically states that Sea Monsters are NOT Heroes. It's in big bold text under the Sea Monster section.


SEA MONSTERS
Sea Monsters are summoned to the fight by the “Sea Monster
Attack!” Tide Card. When a Sea Monster is summoned, it
is deployed as described on its Dashboard. From then on, it
acts like an additional Hero for the player who summoned
it (Note: It is NOT a Hero model, however!). The controlling
player will activate it just like a Hero, and each Sea Monster
gets three actions. KO'ing a Sea Monster works exactly
like KO'ing a Hero. Multiples of the same Sea Monster
cannot be summoned, and once a Sea Monster is KO’d it
cannot be re-summoned that game.

That being the case, they can't Rig, can't gain Coins, can't gain Status Effects, and can't be affected by anything that directly deals with Heroes, as these are all things that only Heroes can do.



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Maurice Oksman
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I did read that---In fact both of us playing did, but it was a bit confusing to us---especially because of all the hidden benefits of not being considered a hero.

The paragraph explicitly states, "They act like heroes" BUT "it is not a hero model..."

so basically what you're saying is any ability/card/text that specifically targets "heroes" can't target them.

The following is a list of examples:
1. Tide cards that specifically target heroes can't be used on them.
2. They are immune to the Kraken's ability that target all heroes.
3. They can't rig when moving because that ability specifically states "heroes" in the book.
4. Hero skills that targets heroes CANNOT target sea monsters controlled by opposing player.
5. Sea creatures are immune to blind, stun, slow, silence and bleed since the rulebook states the word "Hero" when refering to those.

That's alot of hidden benefits to being a sea creature, which was at the heart of our confusion---since those are some pretty powerful 'immunities'. I think the rulebook could have done a better job at bringing attention to this by using at least one example.

annd please, could you not be as patronizing should you choose to respond. I'm just trying to have a friendly discussion about the rules.


Daimortus wrote:
Maurice_Oksman wrote:
So when you take control of a sea monster via the tide card, it interacts as though its an additional hero for your team. Ie, abilities that specifies targeting enemy 'heroes', which includes sea monsters controled by your enemy. The only time this doesn't apply is considering sea monsters niether of you control, ie, kraken.

So here are my two questions, assuming the above statement is correct:

1. Can sea monsters you control take a 'rigging' action when moving? We ruled No, since its seemed very weird considering...but in retrospect i cant see a ruling.

2. Does the kraken's 2nd ability, tentacle crush, target Sea monsters controlled by players? We ruled yes, since they are considered heroes when conrolled by players.



Actually the Rulebook specifically states that Sea Monsters are NOT Heroes. It's in big bold text under the Sea Monster section.


SEA MONSTERS
Sea Monsters are summoned to the fight by the “Sea Monster
Attack!” Tide Card. When a Sea Monster is summoned, it
is deployed as described on its Dashboard. From then on, it
acts like an additional Hero for the player who summoned
it (Note: It is NOT a Hero model, however!). The controlling
player will activate it just like a Hero, and each Sea Monster
gets three actions. KO'ing a Sea Monster works exactly
like KO'ing a Hero. Multiples of the same Sea Monster
cannot be summoned, and once a Sea Monster is KO’d it
cannot be re-summoned that game.

That being the case, they can't Rig, can't gain Coins, can't gain Status Effects, and can't be affected by anything that directly deals with Heroes, as these are all things that only Heroes can do.



 
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Benjamin Sönmez
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Nicolas is telling the truth
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Nicolas Tremblay
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Wasn't looking to be patronizing there, was literally saying that the relevant text appears in big bold italicized letters, just like I quoted.
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Maurice Oksman
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Daimortus wrote:
Wasn't looking to be patronizing there, was literally saying that the relevant text appears in big bold italicized letters, just like I quoted.


Well I do apologize then if that was not your intention. It felt patronising when you answered my question by stating, "Actually the Rulebook specifically states that Sea Monsters are NOT Heroes. It's in big bold text under the Sea Monster section." But then again, maybe English isen't your first language, so the semantics of the way you phrased things came-off unintentionally.

In which case, I thank you for your clarifying the rules via reiteration.

Much Appreciated,
Cheers!

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Matt Hirsch
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The Rigging part is still unclear in the rulebook regarding Sea Monsters. Under Hero movement, it says that Heroes can spend movement points to move to adjacent spaces or rig. If you strictly say that section doesn't apply to Sea Monsters, then the Sea Monster can't move at all, because the same wording for rigging is used for basic Hero movement.

Of course, the simple answer is just to say that Sea Monsters can't rig because that's just dumb. I risk being pedantic here because I'd like to see the rules officially clarified.
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Benjamin Sönmez
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Me too, would like to see the rules officially clarified
 
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Dan Thorpe
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Where do sea monsters place in the targeting priority if you assume for a second its a sea monster that can be on your ship, in a zone with every possible model + an objective?
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