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Labyrinth: The War on Terror, 2001 – ?» Forums » General

Subject: Labyrinth vs. Fire in the Lake rss

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Tony Holt
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So, while playing Labyrinth and Awakening, I had the idea that this system would work great as a game dealing with the Vietnam conflict, from post WW II French conflict with the Viet Minh all the way up through the U.S. involvement.

So, I started thinking a little more about it, and that's when I noticed that the Labyrinth Designer, Volko Ruhnke also designed Fire in the Lake, which is a COIN game about Vietnam! (apparently, great minds think a like )

I know I've read that Labyrinth is basically considered a Proto-COIN game, so I was wondering from those of you that have experience with both, how similar is Labyrinth and Fire in the Lake? Are they really close or are they substantially different.

Thoughts?

Tony
 
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Tim K
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tpholt wrote:
from those of you that have experience with both, how similar is Labyrinth and Fire in the Lake? Are they really close or are they substantially different.


Substantially different. The "proto-COIN" tag is about theme and not design commonalities. They use cards completely differently and the mechanics for operations are also completely different. This is not a knock on Volko; Labyrinth is one of my favorite games, and I cannot think of another wargame designer whom I consider more creative.
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Didier Renard
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Labyrinth and COIN games share basic core elements and principles such as factions being composed of military units or cells that can be in hidden or activated state, a map with areas that your faction attempts to control, and cards that can be played either as events or operations to achieve your objectives.
Volko's take on those core design elements has clearly evolved between Labyrinth and Andean Abyss (the first COIN game), so that is perhaps where Labyrinth can be seen as "proto-COIN".
However, the way those principles are implemented in both games and the resulting gameplay/experience are substantially different. There is certainly room for both in your collection!
 
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They're different, like oranges and grapefruits.

Either skim the rules (see GMT's site) or watch some videos here (https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/144189/fire-lake/videos/...).

And Fire in the Lake will be reprinted early next year, if you're interested
 
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Tony Holt
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evacbs wrote:
And Fire in the Lake will be reprinted early next year, if you're interested


Oh, I'm interested. I've already signed up for the P500!

I guess, also, that part of my question could be this:
Would an expansion (fan-made or otherwise) for Labyrinth dealing with Vietnam be substantially different enough from Fire in the Lake to warrant the effort?

Thanks,

Tony
 
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tpholt wrote:
Would an expansion (fan-made or otherwise) for Labyrinth dealing with Vietnam be substantially different enough from Fire in the Lake to warrant the effort?


It would be a new game using Labyrinth's system... more or less like the COIN series using the system built for Andean Abyss, I guess... but who knows? Build it and let's see
 
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