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Subject: What the Green Horde WIP rulebook teaches us rss

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Jorgen Peddersen
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I read througn the WIP rulebook for Green Horde from the Kickstarter, and it turns out there are a few clarification that are useful to playing Black Plague as well. I thought I'd mention what I'd found here...

Abominotaur + Dwarven Shield
We have had many debates about how this works and never got a strraight answer out of CMON. The issue was dealing with Zombie attacks that deal more than 1 damage and how to shield them. We now know that you roll one die per attack and you simply choose which attacks are blocked (so you will always choose the Abominotaur's 2 damage attack).

We also have confirmation in the same example that the entire 2-damage attack of the Abominotaur must be distributed as a whole, not split between Survivors. Well... I say confirmation, but the WIP rulebook also states 3 Orc Walkers can kill 2 Survivors and that would not be correct unless you could split damage of an attack. I believe that reference to be an error in the WIP book, though.

Necromancer Spawn timing
The correct timing of all the events here has always been a bit odd to figure out. Using the book, we can now determine the appropriate order appears to be:

1: Place appropriate Necromancer figure. If you did not have one to place, stop here.
2: Place Necromancer Spawn Token.
3: Perform Necromancer's special effect upon spawning (if it has one).
4: Activate all other Necromancers already on the board.
5: Resolve a spawn for the new Spawn Token.

The only real query here is whether step 4 should be after step 5, but doing it that way would lead to tremendous confusion and memory issues, so I'm ruling it out.

Necromancers and inactive Spawn Zones
Contrary to an official ruling we received, Necromancers will NOT head towards inactive Spawn Zones. They will only go towards active ones.

Unfortunately, the current rules are still ambiguous about whether a Necromancer escapes has priority over attacking Survivors, though (attacking still has priority over moving).

Cabal Rules
They haven't learned their lesson that the Cabal Dark Ritual rule is plain stupid. Even though it is back in the rulebook, ignore it. A 20-50% chance of unavoidable game over every time you shuffle the deck is not a good game mechanic.

Jump with Ramparts
They haven't bothered changing the rules text for this one. Thus, I'll still continue to ignore the Jump ruling that was made regarding Ramparts.

Incidentally, the current wording seems to work with Ledges, at least. When jumping up a ledge, you would still need to spend the extra action, though.
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Doctor Bandage
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What's the ruling on Jump and Ramparts? I think I missed that one.
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Jorgen Peddersen
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DoctorBandage wrote:
What's the ruling on Jump and Ramparts? I think I missed that one.

That you can use Jump to go up and down across ramparts provided that the Zone below is a Street Zone. When doing so you also move only directly between those Zones, you don't move two Zones like you normally would with Jump.

So yeah, they didn't decide to add all that text to the Skill. Personally, I think they already jumped through too many hoops when they made that initial ruling, and the ruling should simply be ignored, in the same way that we will now ignore the ruling on Necromancers and inactive Spawn Zones.
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I really like using jump to move up or get down from towers. It's useful and I've had no game breaking issues as a result of using it. It also makes the skill a lot more useful as it can't be used indoors. I do remember reading something about jump in the WIP rulebook. Something about Slippery. Can you not use jump with slippery? I still think the slippery + charge combo is hilariously broken. Did they fix that?
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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My issue isn't really whether Rampart-Jump is broken any more, it's just so horrible to try to ord it so that it works.

Also note that you will now need to spend an extra action when jumping up Ledges, and you need another space in front of or behind the Ledge, but not when jumping up Ramparts... although maybe they'll notice and fix this before the full rulebook.

Jump is only mentioned with reference to Barriers, allowing you to Jump over them (but not Hedges according to the rules as written). Jump cannot be used with Slippery (so you must spend extra actions when Jumping out of a Zone containing Zombies), and it was the same in Black Plague.

Slippery+Charge still works according to their WIP wordings.
 
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Brandon Wickstrom
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When a necromancer reaches his desired exit spawn token does he immediately escape or does it take a turn to escape?
 
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Gutripper
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Clipper wrote:

Necromancer Spawn timing
The correct timing of all the events here has always been a bit odd to figure out. Using the book, we can now determine the appropriate order appears to be:

1: Place appropriate Necromancer figure. If you did not have one to place, stop here.
2: Place Necromancer Spawn Token.
3: Perform Necromancer's special effect upon spawning (if it has one).
4: Activate all other Necromancers already on the board.
5: Resolve a spawn for the new Spawn Token.

The only real query here is whether step 4 should be after step 5, but doing it that way would lead to tremendous confusion and memory issues, so I'm ruling it out.



Makes sense to have 5 after 4 in case you spawn another necromancer for the necromancer...
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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bwick503 wrote:
When a necromancer reaches his desired exit spawn token does he immediately escape or does it take a turn to escape?

He needs to activate while already in the Zone to escape.

Gutripper wrote:
Makes sense to have 5 after 4 in case you spawn another necromancer for the necromancer...

Yeah, that's the confusing stuff that can happen.
 
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Brandon Wickstrom
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Clipper wrote:
bwick503 wrote:
When a necromancer reaches his desired exit spawn token does he immediately escape or does it take a turn to escape?

He needs to activate while already in the Zone to escape.

Gutripper wrote:
Makes sense to have 5 after 4 in case you spawn another necromancer for the necromancer...

Yeah, that's the confusing stuff that can happen.


Oh ok. I had been playing that on the activation where the necro moves into the zone with the exit spawn token he leaves. Having them wait an extra turn once on the token makes things a little easier.
 
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Peter Baker
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I think dark ritual should be: After movement has been completed, when two or more necromancers land on the same square draw spawn cards equal to the number of necromancers in that space.
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Sam Mattson
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Digimortal wrote:
I think dark ritual should be: After movement has been completed, when two or more necromancers land on the same square draw spawn cards equal to the number of necromancers in that space.


That's a great alternative rule that I think they should change it to. I also think that the 6+ rule is iffy. If there's 6 or more spawn zones when a necro exits, game over. Some missions Start with 5 spawns, and if you're playing with more players than the mission states it's for (eg playing 8 players on a 6 player game) you already have 6 zones on the board. So as soon as a necro spawns you're in imminent danger of losing and have to go after it.
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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When you have increased player count the number of Necromancer Spawn Zones that causes the loss is also increased, so that's not the issue.

Also, the original Dark Ritual rule is horrible for maps that have 4+ initial Spawn Zones. If you have two different Necromancer cards next to each other in the Spawn deck, then one Necromancer will spawn the other at its spawn token. This gives you 6 Spawn points total and the very first activation, both Necromancers escape and the game is over.

It is actually really likely that there will be two Necromancer cards next to each other in the deck somewhere (about 50% of shuffles using a core-set deck), so the official rule results in unavoidable game over very frequently. I don't know how it ever got past even basic testing.

I really wish they would address this with Green Horde... I guess there is still hope they might...
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Jan Smuts
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The cabal is such a ridiculous rule - is there anybody who actually uses it?
 
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Shawn Beatty
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Gutripper wrote:
[q="Clipper"]
Necromancer Spawn timing
The correct timing of all the events here has always been a bit odd to figure out. Using the book, we can now determine the appropriate order appears to be:

1: Place appropriate Necromancer figure. If you did not have one to place, stop here.
2: Place Necromancer Spawn Token.
3: Perform Necromancer's special effect upon spawning (if it has one).
4: Activate all other Necromancers already on the board.
5: Resolve a spawn for the new Spawn Token.

The only real query here is whether step 4 should be after step 5, but doing it that way would lead to tremendous confusion and memory issues, so I'm ruling it out.



Wait...ALL necromancers in #4. That is only if the SAME Necromancer is spawned, correct? So if I spawned a regulary Necro and then Grin (or any other special necro), I'm supposed to move ALL of them?

I took it as if THAT specific necromancer card was drawn then you'd take a second action with that one only. I'm right, right?
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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KingZombie wrote:
Wait...ALL necromancers in #4. That is only if the SAME Necromancer is spawned, correct? So if I spawned a regulary Necro and then Grin (or any other special necro), I'm supposed to move ALL of them?

I took it as if THAT specific necromancer card was drawn then you'd take a second action with that one only. I'm right, right?

Yes, all of them. Yes, a Grin card will make the regular Necro/s activate, even when Grin is spawning.

You are wrong, sorry.

The rules are very clear on this:

Z:BP Rules p29 wrote:
Each subsequent drawing of additional Necromancer Zombie
cards, no matter the type, gives an Extra Activation to every
Necromancer on the board until they flee or die.
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Kevin Martin
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Clipper wrote:
KingZombie wrote:
Wait...ALL necromancers in #4. That is only if the SAME Necromancer is spawned, correct? So if I spawned a regulary Necro and then Grin (or any other special necro), I'm supposed to move ALL of them?

I took it as if THAT specific necromancer card was drawn then you'd take a second action with that one only. I'm right, right?

Yes, all of them. Yes, a Grin card will make the regular Necro/s activate, even when Grin is spawning.

You are wrong, sorry.

The rules are very clear on this:

Z:BP Rules p29 wrote:
Each subsequent drawing of additional Necromancer Zombie
cards, no matter the type, gives an Extra Activation to every
Necromancer on the board until they flee or die.


Thanks for this. I've been playing Necros like any other zombie. That is, only get additional activation if I am out of additional models.
 
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Jake TheZombie
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pickelbarrel wrote:
The cabal is such a ridiculous rule - is there anybody who actually uses it?

You don't like the cabal rule? Playing with only six necromancers. If you want to add every necromancer card you got to the deck you're making it too hard for yourself.
 
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Jake the zombie wrote:
pickelbarrel wrote:
The cabal is such a ridiculous rule - is there anybody who actually uses it?

You don't like the cabal rule? Playing with only six necromancers. If you want to add every necromancer card you got to the deck you're making it too hard for yourself.


I'm guessing pickelbarrel is referring to the Dark Ritual. From comments I've read, nearly everyone house-rules it away.
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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Note: the following reply was made thinking that the argument was supporting the Dark Ritual...

Jake the zombie wrote:
pickelbarrel wrote:
The cabal is such a ridiculous rule - is there anybody who actually uses it?

You don't like the cabal rule? Playing with only six necromancers. If you want to add every necromancer card you got to the deck you're making it too hard for yourself.

Playing with just the two standard Necromancer minis that come with the Kickstarter version of the game also leads to about a 20% chance of unavoidable insta-loss on every shuffle of the deck IIRC.

Playing with two different Necromancers, 3 cards each and a 54 card deck, you have a 7% chance of insta-loss the first time you draw a Necromancer. This is much lower than the 45% for 6 Necromancers, but it's still not desirable. From that point on, you never want to kill both Necromancers at the same time, as it reintroduces the possibility of the 7% again.
 
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Greg Tannahill
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We're thinking of using the following rules re: Necromancers -

1) If a Necromancer is drawn at a Necromancer spawn, it never spawns a new Necromancer, only gives the extra activation. Necromancers can only spawn at "regular" spawns - i.e. ones written in the mission or whose Necromancers have escaped.

2) Necromancer spawn zones do not count to the 6+ rule while their Necromancer is still on the board.

3) Ignore the Dark Cabal rule but when a Necromancer encounters another Necromancer, both their spawn zones draw an additional spawn.

This reduces most of the situations where players can die due to deck randomness and gives them at least a chance to mitigate / respond to the most dire situations before losing.

 
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Jake TheZombie
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GregT314 wrote:
We're thinking of using the following rules re: Necromancers -

1) If a Necromancer is drawn at a Necromancer spawn, it never spawns a new Necromancer, only gives the extra activation. Necromancers can only spawn at "regular" spawns - i.e. ones written in the mission or whose Necromancers have escaped.

2) Necromancer spawn zones do not count to the 6+ rule while their Necromancer is still on the board.

3) Ignore the Dark Cabal rule but when a Necromancer encounters another Necromancer, both their spawn zones draw an additional spawn.

This reduces most of the situations where players can die due to deck randomness and gives them at least a chance to mitigate / respond to the most dire situations before losing.


I'll have to reread the rulebook but I've been playing with #2as the standard. And as far as a 2 necros Insta-loss I guess we've not encountered it because we have crowz wolves deadeyes NPCs and all the big abominations.
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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Jake the zombie wrote:
I'll have to reread the rulebook but I've been playing with #2as the standard. And as far as a 2 necros Insta-loss I guess we've not encountered it because we have crowz wolves deadeyes NPCs and all the big abominations.

The Necro Zones definitely count, the rules are very clear on that. If there are 6 or more Spawn Tokens when a Necro escapes, the game is lost.

This means that any Quest that starts with 4 Spawn Zones will cause insta-loss via the Dark Ritual Rule if the first Necromancer card in the Spawn deck is immediately followed by a different Necrmancer's card.

The first token will spawn a Necromancer, a Token (5 total) and a new Spawn card for the token, the second Necromancer. The first Necromancer will activate, move one Zone away, and the second Necromancer will be placed with a new spawn token (6 total) and a new Spawn card.

Unless you kill one of them in the following turn (a tough task when you have no idea where they'll spawn), the two Necromancers will Dark Ritual in their next activation (they are one Zone apart) for an instant game loss.

The probability of the above situation is decently high, so the Dark Ritual really is a flaw.
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Gredin 06
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Dark ritual is better left ignored for all the reasons stated.

You can lower the odds of it happening by bloating the zombie deck with NPCs, Dead Eyes and the like but setting up a table and losing instantly in the invasion phase is not my idea of fun.

Another tidbit the GH rule book teaches us is that with a door opening spell as starting gear, survivors starting with an axe are now almost obsolete.
I don't think I'll be using that one, It will go and keep the vampiric crossbow company.
 
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