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Subject: Wargames - a WOPR of a Math Trade (OLWLG US Shipping Math Trade) [DISCUSSION] rss

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Kevin L. Kitchens
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Wargames - a WOPR of a Math Trade
OLWLG US Shipping Math Trade


Dates
- Submissions close: Sunday June 25, 2017, 11:00 PM EDT
- Wants due: Thursday, June 29, 2017, 11:00 PM EDT
- Results posted: Shortly Thereafter


Math Trade Geeklist: [OFFICIAL] Wargames - a WOPR of a Math Trade (OLWLG US Shipping Math Trade)
Request Geeklist: Wargames - a WOPR of a Math Trade (OLWLG US Shipping Math Trade) [REQUESTS]

This is primarily a wargames for wargames math trade. However, gift cards are allowed (per BGG rules and conditions below).


SPECIAL DISTINCTIVES (full rules below)

This is a wargames for wargames math trade.
The target audience is going to be wargamers, but I won't police entries to make sure they are in the BGG wargame genre. However, all items must be board games or board game accessories.
NO DVDs or BluRays.
NO Video Games, Video Game Systems, or Controllers.
GIFT CERTIFICATES ARE ALLOWED PER THESE TERMS:
Trades involving a GC are subject to the new BGG policy: Cash Value Trades in Math Trades (and how to make a geek market listing for them)
Gift certificates as MAIN ITEMS must be $10 or greater in value.
You may add ONE Gift Certificate of up to $10 in value as a sweetener to any game listing. Other game related sweeteners are allowed per normal rules.
Geek Gold IS ALLOWED. Per JeffyJeff's request as designer of the OLWLG, Entries of GG only are allowed.
The entire USA SHOULD BE TREATED the same for shipping. This is STRONGLY RECOMMENDED but not enforced per JeffyJeff decree. In most cases, shipping to CONUS, Alaska, Hawaii, Puerto Rico, US Territories and APO/FPO addresses is nearly always the same price, especially with USPS flat rate shipping. Many have copy/paste descriptions of "CONUS only" so be sure to update your listings accordingly so they are open to more people.
A GeekGold Prize will be awarded to one participant who lists ALL their items as unrestricted US Shipping (details below).
Traders are expected to subscribe to their own GeekList items as they list them and respond promptly and publicly to any questions asked. Any confusion over the item being traded MAY result in it being invalidated in the trade.


MATH TRADE RULES

SHIPPING
1. All shipping costs are covered by the person listing the item. You must have a U.S. address to receive games. There will be no international shipping of items. The STRONG RECOMMENDATION is that you will ship for free to all US (including territories) and APO/FPO addresses.

1a. The entire USA SHOULD BE TREATED the same for shipping. Unless expressly stated otherwise in your listing, the default assumption is that you're shipping to the full USA. In most cases, shipping to CONUS, Alaska, Hawaii, Puerto Rico, US Territories, and APO/FPO addresses is nearly always the same, especially with USPS flat rate shipping. Unfortunately, due to JeffyJeff requirement, this is a STRONG RECOMMEDATION only and not required. There will however be a GeekGold prize drawing for participants who do not exclude any area for shipping (ALL US + Territories + APO/FPO)

OLWLG REQUIRED
2. Use of the On-Line Want List Generator (OLWLG) http://bgg.activityclub.org/olwlg/ is required for this event.

DELETION OF ENTRIES
3. IMPORTANT: You may now (and should) delete your items from the GeekList for any reason up until the list is locked down.


ITEMS ALLOWED
4. This is a Wargames For Wargames Trade. Therefore board and card games, BGG-related items, RPG items are allowed. Other items such as DVDs/BluRays, video games, video game systems, and books are NOT allowed in this math trade.

Gift Certificates added AS A MAIN ITEM must be $10 or greater in value.

You may include ONE Gift Certificate AS A SWEETENER to a game item to bring up its perceived value. GCs added in this manner may not exceed $10 in value.

Any fees due BGG for GCs are the responsibility of the person RECEIVING the GC. DETAILS: Cash Value Trades in Math Trades (and how to make a geek market listing for them)

Other game related sweeteners are still allowed.


ITEM DESCRIPTION
5. You must describe, as accurately as possible, the condition of both the components and box, language and edition of your item and any sweeteners. You must also inventory the game's components and list anything missing and/or damaged. If you do not, the game is expected to be complete, in like-new condition and be the most recent English edition. You are also responsible for packaging and sending your game correctly -- any damage incurred in the course of shipping must be addressed and resolved by the sender. In other words, if you do not adequately package your game, and it arrives damaged, the onus is upon YOU to correct the matter to the satisfaction of the recipient, which may include up to replacing the damaged item with a new one that is not damaged. Please see the link below for some helpful tips about shipping.

5a. an item's condition can be changed for the better or worse until the list is locked down. No more required deleting the old entry and relisting (unless you just want to). The item is not final until the list is locked down. So early want list makers will need to make sure no items they want have been modified such that they no longer want them. So again, stressing SUBSCRIBE TO ITEMS OF INTEREST when you see them on the GeekList to get notified of changes.

5b. As wargamers, it is VERY IMPORTANT to be clear on the condition of the game in terms of punched, clipped/rounded (and how it was done). Condition matters to many.

6. Sweeteners are to be listed using the "Insert Geek Link" dropdown or you can manually insert the GAMEID using BGG formatting. If you don't use this format your sweeteners won't show up in the OLWLG properly. Do NOT list any item, using a Geek Link if that item is itself not included in the offering. The OLWLG will pick this up as an item that is being included. Similarly, if you are listing something which is a component, promo, or accessory of a game, list it either with its own BGG entry or using “Outside the Scope of BGG”. DO NOT LIST IT AS THE ITEM, IF YOU DO SO THE WANTLIST FOR THAT ITEM WILL BE BLANKED TO AVOID CONFUSION.

LISTER OBLIGATION TO RESPOND
7. You are required to periodically check your entries for comments and respond to them appropriately. The OLWLG will let you know if any of your items have unanswered comments. Any unclear descriptions may result in that item's want list being blanked by the moderator, at the moderator's discretion.

MODERATOR RESPONSIBILITY
8. Only errors by the moderator will invalidate the results. In the case that there is a problem after the results are posted, the trade will be re-run with the issue addressed.

9. Decisions to anything that comes up regarding this math trade are decided by me. If you do not agree to me making such decisions, then don't participate in the math trade.

10. If you have demonstrated the propensity to be a bad trader in another math trade previously run by me, I reserve the right to ask you to not participate, and if you do participate, I reserve the right to blank out your want lists. I highly doubt this will impact anyone, but as there have been a few "bad traders", they will not be permitted to be involved with this one.

ARBITRAGE
11. No geekgold or gift certificate arbitrage. You may not put geekgold on the want list for your geekgold entry, and you may not put a gift certificate on the want list for your gift certificate entry. There are no exceptions. Any occurrences of arbitrage of either GG or GCs in the end results will result in that user's entire wantlist for all entries to be removed.

PARTICIPANT OBLIGATIONS
12. Timeframe. By entering into this Math Trade, you are committing to being available to ship your items out in a timely fashion. It is expected that within one (1) week of the results being finalized, you will submit all of your trade requests to the individuals receiving your games. Do NOT submit any trade requests until the results have been announced as permanent or official by the Trade Moderator, to allow for time for potential issues to be resolved. It is also expected that within (2) weeks of the trade results being posted or within (1) week of receiving a trade confirmation for your outgoing game you will ship the game to your recipient. Similarly, if you are due to receive a game, you are required to respond to the trade request within two (2) weeks time. If after this time you have not acknowledged the trade request and provided your trade partner with your address, you shall forfeit the item. Obviously, emergencies come up, but if something happens that deviates from this time frame, please communicate that. This is a guideline; if your trade partner is willing to hold your game for an additional period of time, that is up to them, but must be agreed upon.

13. PLEASE BE AWARE THAT ENTERING INTO THIS MATH TRADE IS A COMMITMENT TO TRADE THE ITEMS THAT YOU ARE INDICATING YOU ARE WILLING TO TRADE FOR YOUR ITEM. IT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO DOUBLE CHECK DUPLICATE PROTECTION AND CHECK BOXES. IF YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO TRADE ONE OF YOUR ITEMS FOR ANOTHER ITEM, DO NOT INCLUDE IT IN YOUR WANTLIST. THE RESULTS ONCE POSTED ARE BINDING.

TECHNICAL INFORMATION
TradeMaximizer with duplicate protection will be used
Seed = 20170625, Iterations = 50

USEFUL LINKS AND TUTORIALS
Math_Trades http://www.boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/Math_Trades- If you're new to math trades, follow this link to learn the ropes.
Math Trades for Dummies http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/287152/math-trades-for-d...- Another good intro.
OLWLG http://www.boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/OLWLG- Read here for help using the On-Line Want List Generator to submit your want list.
Math Trade Video Tutorials http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/568078/math-trade-video-...
Rahdo Runs Through Math Trades video http://www.boardgamegeek.com/video/32552/outside-the-scope-o...
Packaging Suggestions and Guidelines https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/196679/guide-packaging

Make sure to drop by the discussion thread (see top of this header) if you have any questions. Math trades might look a bit complicated at first, but they're really easy and fun once you get the hang of them.



GEEK GOLD PRIZE FOR UNRESTRICTED SHIPPING
To encourage fair shipping practices (all US the same including APO/FPO), a geek gold prize will be offered to one participant in this Math Trade.

PRIZE: 200 GG from me PLUS ALL TIPS TO THIS GEEKLIST (not replies, items, discussions or requests). Tips can be added up to the posting of the official results.

ELIGIBILITY: You do not need to actually make a trade to be eligible, but you must have submitted a want list of at least one item. Likewise ALL your items for trade MUST have been listed with unrestricted shipping to the entire US including all territories and APO/FPO (which is the default if no shipping information is added).

PROCESS: After the trade is finished, I will take a list of all the participants who submitted a valid want list, assign a number, and do a public die roll to select a potential winner. If that winner's items (ALL OF THEM) are properly unrestricted for shipping purposes, they will win the prize. If not, then I will repeat until a winner is selected.
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Mark Perry
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Subscribed.

How successful do you think this will be? Also, by wargame are you limiting this to hex and counter games, to games that simulate a historical/military conflict, or all historical/military games?
 
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Kevin L. Kitchens
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MarkP1981 wrote:
Subscribed.

How successful do you think this will be? Also, by wargame are you limiting this to hex and counter games, to games that simulate a historical/military conflict, or all historical/military games?


See rules:

The target audience is going to be wargamers, but I won't police entries to make sure they are in the BGG wargame genre. However, all items must be board games or board game accessories.
 
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Ron A
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MarkP1981 wrote:
Subscribed.

How successful do you think this will be?


The last one in 2014 had about 900 entries, IIRC. Personally, I had 5 trades, by far my most successful MT ever.

Nothing against the 'regular' MTs, but take the June MT-- almost 3000 entries, and maybe a dozen I might be interested in. A wargame only MT, most items are at least worth a look-see. YMMV.
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SBGrad wrote:
MarkP1981 wrote:
Subscribed.

How successful do you think this will be?


The last one in 2014 had about 900 entries, IIRC. Personally, I had 5 trades, by far my most successful MT ever.

Nothing against the 'regular' MTs, but take the June MT-- almost 3000 entries, and maybe a dozen I might be interested in. A wargame only MT, most items are at least worth a look-see. YMMV.


Also looking at the results of the May trade, I listed 4 wargames (same as this trade) and 0 offers for all 4. The only way to go is up!
 
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klkitchens wrote:

See rules:

The target audience is going to be wargamers, but I won't police entries to make sure they are in the BGG wargame genre. However, all items must be board games or board game accessories.


I have a ton of wargames from back in the day. I would love to offer these in this MT. But at this point there are a miniscule number of wargames that I have an interest in receiving and an even smaller number that I would put in the Must-Have category.
I would love to see some non-wargames offered in this MT and I know that you explicitly stated that you are not going to police entries, but I really do not want to violate the spirit of the trade and abuse your laissez-faire approach.
How "OK" would you be if I explicitly add non-wargames to the Request List and encourage people to add non-wargames as offers?
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Paladin82Y wrote:
klkitchens wrote:

See rules:

The target audience is going to be wargamers, but I won't police entries to make sure they are in the BGG wargame genre. However, all items must be board games or board game accessories.


I have a ton of wargames from back in the day. I would love to offer these in this MT. But at this point there are a miniscule number of wargames that I have an interest in receiving and an even smaller number that I would put in the Must-Have category.
I would love to see some non-wargames offered in this MT and I know that you explicitly stated that you are not going to police entries, but I really do not want to violate the spirit of the trade and abuse your laissez-faire approach.
How "OK" would you be if I explicitly add non-wargames to the Request List and encourage people to add non-wargames as offers?


There is currently a non-wargames MT going on and you could submit them there.

That said, I don't care what gets added as long as it's boardgame related (as noted in the rules). Just know the the target eyes are going to be primarily wargamers. But I think many of us have tastes in other genres too.

It never hurts to add them and see what transpires.
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Frankie Bones

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Paladin82Y wrote:
klkitchens wrote:

See rules:

The target audience is going to be wargamers, but I won't police entries to make sure they are in the BGG wargame genre. However, all items must be board games or board game accessories.


I have a ton of wargames from back in the day. I would love to offer these in this MT. But at this point there are a miniscule number of wargames that I have an interest in receiving and an even smaller number that I would put in the Must-Have category.
I would love to see some non-wargames offered in this MT and I know that you explicitly stated that you are not going to police entries, but I really do not want to violate the spirit of the trade and abuse your laissez-faire approach.
How "OK" would you be if I explicitly add non-wargames to the Request List and encourage people to add non-wargames as offers?


I'm not speaking for Kevin but I'm assuming his statement there in the rules was to avoid the argument of "what is a wargame." So I think the intention was that something like Days of Ire: Budapest could be offered but something like La Granja would best be left off.
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Nighteyes77 wrote:
Paladin82Y wrote:
klkitchens wrote:

See rules:

The target audience is going to be wargamers, but I won't police entries to make sure they are in the BGG wargame genre. However, all items must be board games or board game accessories.


I have a ton of wargames from back in the day. I would love to offer these in this MT. But at this point there are a miniscule number of wargames that I have an interest in receiving and an even smaller number that I would put in the Must-Have category.
I would love to see some non-wargames offered in this MT and I know that you explicitly stated that you are not going to police entries, but I really do not want to violate the spirit of the trade and abuse your laissez-faire approach.
How "OK" would you be if I explicitly add non-wargames to the Request List and encourage people to add non-wargames as offers?


I'm not speaking for Kevin but I'm assuming his statement there in the rules was to avoid the argument of "what is a wargame." So I think the intention was that something like Days of Ire: Budapest could be offered but something like La Granja would best be left off.


Nope.

La Granja would be fine. But the last one had a ratio restriction. For every X wargames you could list a non-wargame for example. I don't want to attempt to try to police who listed what and what ratio.

Hopefully the "wargames" target will keep the regular crowd away, but certainly the crossover crowd is fine.
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Frankie Bones

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klkitchens wrote:
Nighteyes77 wrote:
Paladin82Y wrote:
klkitchens wrote:

See rules:

The target audience is going to be wargamers, but I won't police entries to make sure they are in the BGG wargame genre. However, all items must be board games or board game accessories.


I have a ton of wargames from back in the day. I would love to offer these in this MT. But at this point there are a miniscule number of wargames that I have an interest in receiving and an even smaller number that I would put in the Must-Have category.
I would love to see some non-wargames offered in this MT and I know that you explicitly stated that you are not going to police entries, but I really do not want to violate the spirit of the trade and abuse your laissez-faire approach.
How "OK" would you be if I explicitly add non-wargames to the Request List and encourage people to add non-wargames as offers?


I'm not speaking for Kevin but I'm assuming his statement there in the rules was to avoid the argument of "what is a wargame." So I think the intention was that something like Days of Ire: Budapest could be offered but something like La Granja would best be left off.


Nope.

La Granja would be fine. But the last one had a ratio restriction. For every X wargames you could list a non-wargame for example. I don't want to attempt to try to police who listed what and what ratio.

Hopefully the "wargames" target will keep the regular crowd away, but certainly the crossover crowd is fine.


This is why I should not have spoke for you!
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totally listing la granja
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Wait, are you guys talking about la ganja?
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Sorry everyone but this is kind of the first math trade that I intend to participate in. I just have a question before I make a mistake and trade away my entire collection unnecessarily.

IN the picture below (and sorry for the quality, I actually just took it with my phone for ease) if I'm willing to trade any of those 4 games for Silent Victory, would I check all 4 boxes and save?

What if I was willing to trade more than one game for another game, how does the system distinguish between a 1 for 1 offer and a multiple for 1 offer?

Thanks in advance. I watched Rhado's video on Math Trades but this part wasn't entirely clear.


 
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Nighteyes77 wrote:
Sorry everyone but this is kind of the first math trade that I intend to participate in. I just have a question before I make a mistake and trade away my entire collection unnecessarily.

IN the picture below (and sorry for the quality, I actually just took it with my phone for ease) if I'm willing to trade any of those 4 games for Silent Victory, would I check all 4 boxes and save?

What if I was willing to trade more than one game for another game, how does the system distinguish between a 1 for 1 offer and a multiple for 1 offer?

Thanks in advance. I watched Rhado's video on Math Trades but this part wasn't entirely clear.




Yes 1 for any of the 4

You cannot trade multiple items that way. It's one geeklist item for one geeklist item.
 
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Frankie Bones

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Thanks for the quick response Kevin.

ONe more...

What if I am willing to trade any of my games for Silent Vicotry and then another game gets added to the list I want. If I'm willing to trade any of my games for that too, I assume that is what the OLWLG is for? It will make sure I don't have to trade two copies of Ambush for two different games if I only have one copy?
 
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Nighteyes77 wrote:
Thanks for the quick response Kevin.

ONe more...

What if I am willing to trade any of my games for Silent Vicotry and then another game gets added to the list I want. If I'm willing to trade any of my games for that too, I assume that is what the OLWLG is for? It will make sure I don't have to trade two copies of Ambush for two different games if I only have one copy?


it works all that out. You only list one copy of Ambush you can only trade it once, no matter how many games you say you'll trade it for. You'll just get one trade. To anticipate your next question, there is no ranking of your wants, so you might get one of them, but cannot say give me X before you give me Y or Z.
 
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Frankie Bones

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Great, thank you!
 
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Okay, thought I have watched the tutorials and knew what I was doing, but I guess not. I thought I added a bunch of games to the Geek List, But when I go to the OLWLG I can't see any of the games I've listed. What am I doing wrong?
 
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igycrctl wrote:
Okay, thought I have watched the tutorials and knew what I was doing, but I guess not. I thought I added a bunch of games to the Geek List, But when I go to the OLWLG I can't see any of the games I've listed. What am I doing wrong?


I the moderator have to synchronize the list from time to time.
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klkitchens wrote:
igycrctl wrote:
Okay, thought I have watched the tutorials and knew what I was doing, but I guess not. I thought I added a bunch of games to the Geek List, But when I go to the OLWLG I can't see any of the games I've listed. What am I doing wrong?


I the moderator have to synchronize the list from time to time.


And...they're there.
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Sorry, I didn't mean to imply anything. Just doing this for the first time and while there is a ton of good advice and video tutorials, the whole process is still complicated and a bit confusing. Thanks.
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igycrctl wrote:
Sorry, I didn't mean to imply anything. Just doing this for the first time and while there is a ton of good advice and video tutorials, the whole process is still complicated and a bit confusing. Thanks.


No worries... A common question.
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igycrctl wrote:
Just doing this for the first time and while there is a ton of good advice and video tutorials, the whole process is still complicated and a bit confusing. Thanks.


Thank YOU for adding to the MT. If you stick with MTs, you will learn lots of things.

The first thing to learn is that MTs involve lots of waiting. While you are waiting, here are some fun ways to explore the Math Trade.

First, click on the link to get On Line Want List Generator (aka OLWLG):
http://bgg.activityclub.org/olwlg

You will see a list of all your active Math Trades (active meaning you listed a game on a MT GeekList)

Now look at this next screenshot:



See the circled icon? Click on the 'Stats' icon for the Wargame MT.

Now you will see something like this:



It lists all the games that have been offered in the MT, it also shows how many people have each game on their personal 'want in trade' list. So, looking at the picture, there are 18 copies of Forbidden Island, and 7 people have it on their want list. Now, this doesn't mean that 7 people will actually mark the box for it in the MT, it may be a smaller, or more likely, a larger number, but it gives you some idea of the relative desire any any given game.

After you've checked that out for a while, scroll down until you see a header that reads "Wanted but not offered" These are ALL the games that people have marked as 'Want in Trade' but have not been added to the MT-- yet.



Click anywhere in the box labelled 'Your Flags'
After a few seconds, all of your games that you have 'For Trade' that are not in the MT, but are wanted by somebody in this MT, will rise to the top of the list. This is a screenshot that I just ran a couple minutes ago. I can see that I have not added Victory in the Pacific to the trade, and that -4- people that have added games to the MT have VitP on their want lists. It gives me an idea of how wanted my games are.

You can easily spend HOURS looking at the stats page of a Math Trade.

In closing, have fun, ask questions if you're confused at all-- nobody minds questions, everybody wants lots of happy informed participants in our MTs.
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Frankie Bones

Montana
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Many, of course, will rant and rave against the garment fate has woven for them, but they pick it up and don it all the same, and most wear it to the end of their days. You…you would rather go naked into the storm.
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Thanks Ron for this helpful information!
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Matt Irsik
United States
Clearfield
Utah
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How often is the OLWG being updated? It looks like the same games on my list for the last few days, but I see that more have been added to the geeeklist for this event. Just wondering.
 
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