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Subject: FCA + FBOA = Destroyed. When? rss

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Jack Bennett
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The rules for an FBOA result say:

Quote:
If the fighter already has one or more FCA results, the fighter is destroyed at the conclusion of the attack.
(My bolding)

Which attack? The one I just made and it's destroyed now and doesn't get a chance to attack me? Or the attack it's about to make (now at -3 or -4)?
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chuckster williams
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Additional FCA FBOA results are considered misses. Steve Dixon has posted errata in this forum and that is clarified.
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Jack Bennett
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That's for an FBOA + another FBOA, which isn't addressed in the rules. I'm asking about an FCA plus an FBOA, which is stated that it destroys the fighter, just ambiguous as to when.
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Michael Melen
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Jack, on page 16, second column, under FBOA: "If the fighter already has one or more FCA results, the fighter is destroyed at the conclusion of the attack." The German shoots at you, then blows up.

Does that help, or did I misread the question?
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Jack Bennett
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The question is which attack is "the attack." You just made an attack, and the German fighter is about to make an attack. So "the attack" is nonspecific.

Sounds like you're saying it's after the German attack, so he'd get some shots on you and then you get credit for the kill. That's how I played it, since I always lean on the side of making it harder.
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Michael Melen
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Yes, I'm playing that way also.
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Steve Dixon
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I will have an official answer for you later tonight -- I hope -- after I consult with Bob. In my opinion you are playing it correctly, the fighter is destroyed after it shoots at the bomber.
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Jim P
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OK, I see that this has not been answered here or really in the rules, either the rules in the game or the online updated rules. If you look at the online rules with some updates to it you can deduct that an Enemy fighter that takes a FCA-1 and a FBOA-2 will be destroyed and WILL NOT attack the bomber. This only makes sense as in all the other scenarios of an Enemy fighter being Destroyed they can't attack the bombers. Here are the online rules as written;

FCA = Fighter damaged but continues attack, –1 die roll modifier on Table 5-8 during the German fighter attack phase. FCA results accumulate on one fighter: 2 FCA results = -2 modifier on Table 5-8; 3 FCA results = fighter Destroyed and may not fire on B-17/B-24. Note: If the fighter already has one or more FCA results and receives an FBOA result, the fighter is destroyed and removed at the conclusion of its attack against the bomber during the round in which it sustained the result.

FBOA = Fighter damaged and breaks off after this attack, even if a hit was obtained on Table 5-8 German Offensive Fire. A –2 die roll modifier is used on Table 5-8 for the current attack. The fighter may not attack again. If the fighter already has one or more FCA results, the fighter is destroyed at the conclusion of the attack. Treat any additional FBOA results received in that same round as a MISS.

Destroyed = Fighter is destroyed and may not fire at B-17/B-24


So the FBOA + FCA = Destroyed is the only rule that does not say exactly when the E/A is destroyed, but we can deduct from the other rules that the Enemy Fighter cannot fire on the Bomber.

Plus, I do not understand why a Second FBOA-2 result is considered a miss!? If two FCA-1 = a -2 mod (same as a FBOA result) and three FCA-1 = a Destroyed fighter, then why is it that two FBOA-2 do not Destroy an enemy fighter? And then why is a FCA-1 plus a FBOA-2 = a Destroyed fighter if two FBOA-2 don't? This is not logical at all.
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Jim P
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Also found this in the online rules that eludes to the effect that an Enemy Fighter that is Destroyed cannot fire on the bomber.

5.5 THE BOMBER'S DEFENSIVE FIRE
The bomber fires first in all combat rounds. All results against the fighters are assessed before any German fighter combat against the bomber takes place.

 
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Dan Nelson
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Heck, I don't understand how there's and FBOA+anything.

In the description of an FBOA, "The fighter may not attack again."
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Jim P
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DannyBoy907 wrote:
Heck, I don't understand how there's and FBOA+anything.

In the description of an FBOA, "The fighter may not attack again."


DannyBoy907 There is a good reason to have this FBOA+anything. A FBOA-2 is a heavily damaged enemy fighter that will make at least one more attack on your bomber before retiring from the battle.

An enemy fighter with a "FBOA+anything," Say a FBOA+FCA where the E/A fighter is destroyed, and does Not attack, means One Less fighter shooting at your plane.

So getting the FBOA+FBOA result interpreted correctly is very important to the health of your Bomber!

Remember Rule:
5.5 THE BOMBER'S DEFENSIVE FIRE
The bomber fires first in all combat rounds. All results against the fighters are assessed before any German fighter combat against the bomber takes place.


And how any "FBOA+anything" happens is when either more than one gunner is firing on an E/A scoring hits -OR- an already damaged E/A (FCA) who scores a hit returns for its successive attack(s) and is again damaged by one or more of the bomber's gunners.
 
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Dan Nelson
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I need to break this out again. I had forgotten about multiple gunners firing on the same EA on the same pass.

My confusion is italicized below.
jasta6 wrote:


A FBOA-2 is a heavily damaged enemy fighter that will make at least one more attack on your bomber before retiring from the battle.



In the description of an FBOA, it clearly states: "The fighter may not attack again."

How can it make one more attack if it may not attack again? I thought that if you got an FBOA, you apply the -2 if it is applicable, then Jerry is nursing his plane home with some new .50cal speed holes. He doesn't get greedy and come around again.
 
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Jim P
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DannyBoy907 wrote:
I need to break this out again. I had forgotten about multiple gunners firing on the same EA on the same pass.

My confusion is italicized below.
jasta6 wrote:


A FBOA-2 is a heavily damaged enemy fighter that will make at least one more attack on your bomber before retiring from the battle.



In the description of an FBOA, it clearly states: "The fighter may not attack again."

How can it make one more attack if it may not attack again? I thought that if you got an FBOA, you apply the -2 if it is applicable, then Jerry is nursing his plane home with some new .50cal speed holes. He doesn't get greedy and come around again.


The confusion is in the poor wording. The phrase "...will make at least one more attack on your bomber"

At least implies there could be another attack. I should have phased it "...will make ONLY one more attack on your bomber"

But what my post is focusing on is that the errata says that a second FBOA-2 is considered a miss. But three FCA-1 is a Destroyed. When Two FCA-1's are considered a FBOA-2. And a FCA-1 + a FBOA-2 is also a Destroyed.

So wouldn't that imply that two FBOA-2 is really like four FCA-1's? And shouldn't that make two FBOA-2 a Destroyed and unable to attack your bomber too? The logic is not sound with the multiple defensive hits.
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Jim P
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in case I wasn't clear, an enemy fighter that receives a FBOA will still make its attack and then no successive attacks. So it still gets the attack on the turn it attacks.
 
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