Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
22 Posts

BoardGameGeek» Forums » Everything Else » Religion, Sex, and Politics

Subject: UPS shooting today: 4 dead. rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Mac Mcleod
United States
houston
Texas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb


https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2017/06/14/ups-shooter-s...#
Quote:
SAN FRANCISCO — A gunman killed three coworkers and wounded two others at a sprawling UPS facility here Wednesday before fatally turning the gun on himself, UPS and police said.

Police identified Jimmy Lam, a disgruntled employee from San Francisco, as the shooter in a press conference late Wednesday here.

Responding officers encountered multiple shooting victims in the building at around 9 am local time, San Francisco Assistant Police Chief Toney Chaplin said during a news conference outside the building.

When one of the police teams located Lam, who was armed with an assault pistol, "the suspect put the gun to his head and discharged the weapon,” Chaplin said.

Victims of the rampage were found inside and outside the UPS building, according to authorities.

(more)...

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
フィル
Australia
Ashfield
NSW
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Promise me there won't be any squares at my funeral
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
What's an assault pistol? Was that a typo?
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Damian
United States
Enfield
Connecticut
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
sbszine wrote:
What's an assault pistol? Was that a typo?

It was a MAC-10 lookalike you can buy legally in CA. They're functionally the same as any semi-automatic pistol with a 10 round magazine.

Since it looks scary it needs a scary name.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Stalin shot Kirov right in the hallway
United States
Lincoln
NE
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
damiangerous wrote:
sbszine wrote:
What's an assault pistol? Was that a typo?

It was a MAC-10 lookalike you can buy legally in CA. They're functionally the same as any semi-automatic pistol with a 10 round magazine.

Since it looks scary it needs a scary name.


To be fair, a real MAC-10 is considered a machine pistol, which is probably what the author embarrassingly conflated with the term "assault rifle".

Of course, if it had been an assault rifle, the author probably would have called it a "machine gun", thereby completing the Circle of Journalists not Understanding Firearms Terminology.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Dearlove
United Kingdom
Isleworth
Middx
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Number of UK employees killed by disgruntled colleague with gun last year = 0.
But carry on believing guns protect you.
21 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Khalid Shabazz
United States
NYC
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
We MUST debate his ideology though.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jon Badolato
United States
Connecticut
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Who cares what kind of gun it is ? The bottom line is that more people are dead because just about anyone can get their hands on a gun in this country if they want to do so.

5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Born To Lose, Live To Win
United States
South Euclid
Ohio
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
jonb wrote:
Who cares what kind of gun it is ? The bottom line is that more people are dead because just about anyone can get their hands on a gun in this country if they want to do so.
I haven't seen much coverage of this yet, did the shooter have a history that would have disqualified him from gun ownership if we had better regulations?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Walt
United States
Orange County
California
flag msg tools
Saddleback, covered by a blanket of winter snow
badge
Please contact me about board gaming in Orange County.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
sbszine wrote:
What's an assault pistol? Was that a typo?

From what I can tell, it's a rarely used term that sometimes has legal meaning in some US States. The pistol has to have certain features, such as quickly changeable magazines or a barrel shroud.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Grand Admiral Thrawn
United States
New Jersey
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
There was a third shooting that day, in Brooklyn. soblue
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Trey Chambers
United States
Houston
Texas
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
jonb wrote:
Who cares what kind of gun it is ? The bottom line is that more people are dead because just about anyone can get their hands on a gun in this country if they want to do so.



Right. Try to demand any modicum of competence or sanity be displayed before you can own one and you're a tyrant coming for their guns.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Leland Pike
United States
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
DavidDearlove wrote:
Number of UK employees killed by disgruntled colleague with gun last year = 0.
But carry on believing guns protect you.

But you are also restricted (both practically and, to a large degree, legally) to doing this:


I will accept the trade-off.
https://www.policeone.com/police-products/police-technology/...
2 
 Thumb up
0.05
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Walt
United States
Orange County
California
flag msg tools
Saddleback, covered by a blanket of winter snow
badge
Please contact me about board gaming in Orange County.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Shampoo4you wrote:
jonb wrote:
Who cares what kind of gun it is ? The bottom line is that more people are dead because just about anyone can get their hands on a gun in this country if they want to do so.

Right. Try to demand any modicum of competence or sanity be displayed before you can own one and you're a tyrant coming for their guns.

I note that nowhere in the body of the Constitution, that I know of, are there any parenthetical remarks. The First Amendment does not say, "Ben Franklin being a newspaper publisher, Congress shall make no law...abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press." It follows, then, that, "A well regulated Militia..." is intended to have legal force, the NRA notwithstanding.

lelandpike wrote:
[Run...Hide...Tell]

Run...Hide...Tell is good advice if you have competent police or sheriffs with low response time. They would arrive before you could retrieve your firearm if you keep it safely away from your children. An attacker has already thought out his plan; if he has planned to kill you, you won't be able to draw before he does so. Trial by combat is obsolete for a reason.

If you don't have competent law enforcement, maybe you should do something about that.

Police train regularly. Unless you are a LEO or seriously paranoid, you don't. In my area, most Sheriffs are Marines. While I am trained in firearms, I cannot serious entertain the notion that I can handle real combat as well as a Marine.

I find it instructive that the foremost proponents of firearms, the Republican Congress, ran, hide, and left their defense to the professionals.
8 
 Thumb up
0.10
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ben Foy
United States
Ellicott City
Maryland
flag msg tools
Avatar
mb
DavidDearlove wrote:
Number of UK employees killed by disgruntled colleague with gun last year = 0.
But carry on believing guns protect you.


So the employee is poisoned instead of shot, dead is dead. Workplace violence is common in the UK as well as here. I don't mind responsible gun ownership, but saying guns can't be useful tools is as silly as saying guns solve all problems. I favor practical solutions instead of ideology.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Dearlove
United Kingdom
Isleworth
Middx
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
BFoy wrote:
DavidDearlove wrote:
Number of UK employees killed by disgruntled colleague with gun last year = 0.
But carry on believing guns protect you.


So the employee is poisoned instead of shot, dead is dead. Workplace violence is common in the UK as well as here. I don't mind responsible gun ownership, but saying guns can't be useful tools is as silly as saying guns solve all problems. I favor practical solutions instead of ideology.

No, guns enable far more violence and less premeditation than other methods of killing. Why do you believe there is common workplace violence in the UK, except as wishful thinking to remove the exceptionalness of the US?
According to the Health and Safety Executive in 2015/16 there was one death in the UK. They also count abusive language as violence, so in 2/3 of their cases there was no injury if you start using the raw statistics. BTW there were zero poisonings as well.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Vic Lineal
Spain
Barcelona
flag msg tools
Avatar
mb
lelandpike wrote:
DavidDearlove wrote:
Number of UK employees killed by disgruntled colleague with gun last year = 0.
But carry on believing guns protect you.

But you are also restricted (both practically and, to a large degree, legally) to doing this:


I will accept the trade-off.
https://www.policeone.com/police-products/police-technology/...


Yeah, 9/11 would have been much worse if people hadn't shot the planes down with assault rifles.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mac Mcleod
United States
houston
Texas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I don't know about that fact... so let's go to the tape and see what johnny web says...

First.. the U.K.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/statistics/causinj/violence/index.htm
Quote:

The risk of work related violence is similar in 2015/16 to the last five years, with an estimated 1.4 per cent of working adults the victims of one or more violent incidents at work.
In 2015/16 350,000 adults of working age in employment experienced work related violence including threats and physical assault.
There were estimated 698,000 incidents of violence at work according to the 2015/16 CSEW, comprising 329,000 assaults and 369,000 threats. The number of assaults was broadly similar to the last few years however the number of threats was significantly higher due to the inclusion of work-related online threats for the first time.
The 2015/16 CSEW found that 1.3% of women and 1.5% of men were victims of violence at work once or more during the year prior to their interview.
It is estimated that 56% of victims reported one incident of work related violence whilst 18 % experienced two incidents of work related violence and 26% experienced three or more incidents in 2015/16.
Strangers were the offenders in 46% of cases of workplace violence. Among the 54% of incidents where the offender was known, the offenders were most likely to be clients or a member of the public known through work.
67% per cent of violence at work resulted in no physical injury, of the remaining 33% of cases, minor bruising or a black eye accounted for the majority of the injuries recorded.
RIDDOR reported 4,697 injuries to employees, where the ‘kind of accident’ was ‘physical assault/act of violence’ in Great Britain (England, Wales and Scotland). This represents 6.5% of all reported workplace injuries. Of this figure, there was one death. (RIDDOR, 2015/16p).


Now, the U.S.

Quote:
https://ovc.ncjrs.gov/ncvrw2016/content/section-6/PDF/2016NC...


400 homicides due to work place violence per year (excluding police and security guards).

Rates for workplace violence were 8.7/1000 for government employees and 4.7/1000 for private employees.


Note: It appears the u.k. number also includes verbal violence while that is excluded in the u.s. numbers. I don't think we even track them formally in the u.s. Another CNN site set our total workplace violence of all kinds at 2 million incidents which is about 1.6% rate. That's similar to U.K.

http://money.cnn.com/2015/08/26/news/workplace-violence-virg...

Adjusting for population, u.s. workplace violence appears to have a similar overall right but 80x the death rate (adjusting for population size).




3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Dearlove
United Kingdom
Isleworth
Middx
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
maxo-texas wrote:
I don't know about that fact... so let's go to the tape and see what johnny web says...

First.. the U.K.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/statistics/causinj/violence/index.htm
Quote:

The risk of work related violence is similar in 2015/16 to the last five years, with an estimated 1.4 per cent of working adults the victims of one or more violent incidents at work.
In 2015/16 350,000 adults of working age in employment experienced work related violence including threats and physical assault.
There were estimated 698,000 incidents of violence at work according to the 2015/16 CSEW, comprising 329,000 assaults and 369,000 threats. The number of assaults was broadly similar to the last few years however the number of threats was significantly higher due to the inclusion of work-related online threats for the first time.
The 2015/16 CSEW found that 1.3% of women and 1.5% of men were victims of violence at work once or more during the year prior to their interview.
It is estimated that 56% of victims reported one incident of work related violence whilst 18 % experienced two incidents of work related violence and 26% experienced three or more incidents in 2015/16.
Strangers were the offenders in 46% of cases of workplace violence. Among the 54% of incidents where the offender was known, the offenders were most likely to be clients or a member of the public known through work.
67% per cent of violence at work resulted in no physical injury, of the remaining 33% of cases, minor bruising or a black eye accounted for the majority of the injuries recorded.
RIDDOR reported 4,697 injuries to employees, where the ‘kind of accident’ was ‘physical assault/act of violence’ in Great Britain (England, Wales and Scotland). This represents 6.5% of all reported workplace injuries. Of this figure, there was one death. (RIDDOR, 2015/16p).


Now, the U.S.

Quote:
https://ovc.ncjrs.gov/ncvrw2016/content/section-6/PDF/2016NC...


400 homicides due to work place violence per year (excluding police and security guards).

Rates for workplace violence were 8.7/1000 for government employees and 4.7/1000 for private employees.


Note: It appears the u.k. number also includes verbal violence while that is excluded in the u.s. numbers. I don't think we even track them formally in the u.s. Another CNN site set our total workplace violence of all kinds at 2 million incidents which is about 1.6% rate. That's similar to U.K.

http://money.cnn.com/2015/08/26/news/workplace-violence-virg...

Adjusting for population, u.s. workplace violence appears to have a similar overall right but 80x the death rate (adjusting for population size).





No we had less than 5000 injuries due to violence. From 329,000 assaults. Our 1.4% includes 369,000 threats including internet threats which you don't include. Your 1.6% is actual violence. i.e. not comparable.
The US is a very violent place.
400 deaths compared with 1.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mac Mcleod
United States
houston
Texas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
DavidDearlove wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
I don't know about that fact... so let's go to the tape and see what johnny web says...

First.. the U.K.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/statistics/causinj/violence/index.htm
Quote:

The risk of work related violence is similar in 2015/16 to the last five years, with an estimated 1.4 per cent of working adults the victims of one or more violent incidents at work.
In 2015/16 350,000 adults of working age in employment experienced work related violence including threats and physical assault.
There were estimated 698,000 incidents of violence at work according to the 2015/16 CSEW, comprising 329,000 assaults and 369,000 threats. The number of assaults was broadly similar to the last few years however the number of threats was significantly higher due to the inclusion of work-related online threats for the first time.
The 2015/16 CSEW found that 1.3% of women and 1.5% of men were victims of violence at work once or more during the year prior to their interview.
It is estimated that 56% of victims reported one incident of work related violence whilst 18 % experienced two incidents of work related violence and 26% experienced three or more incidents in 2015/16.
Strangers were the offenders in 46% of cases of workplace violence. Among the 54% of incidents where the offender was known, the offenders were most likely to be clients or a member of the public known through work.
67% per cent of violence at work resulted in no physical injury, of the remaining 33% of cases, minor bruising or a black eye accounted for the majority of the injuries recorded.
RIDDOR reported 4,697 injuries to employees, where the ‘kind of accident’ was ‘physical assault/act of violence’ in Great Britain (England, Wales and Scotland). This represents 6.5% of all reported workplace injuries. Of this figure, there was one death. (RIDDOR, 2015/16p).


Now, the U.S.

Quote:
https://ovc.ncjrs.gov/ncvrw2016/content/section-6/PDF/2016NC...


400 homicides due to work place violence per year (excluding police and security guards).

Rates for workplace violence were 8.7/1000 for government employees and 4.7/1000 for private employees.


Note: It appears the u.k. number also includes verbal violence while that is excluded in the u.s. numbers. I don't think we even track them formally in the u.s. Another CNN site set our total workplace violence of all kinds at 2 million incidents which is about 1.6% rate. That's similar to U.K.

http://money.cnn.com/2015/08/26/news/workplace-violence-virg...

Adjusting for population, u.s. workplace violence appears to have a similar overall right but 80x the death rate (adjusting for population size).





No we had less than 5000 injuries due to violence. From 329,000 assaults. Our 1.4% includes 369,000 threats including internet threats which you don't include. Your 1.6% is actual violence. i.e. not comparable.
The US is a very violent place.
400 deaths compared with 1.


It's not 400 deaths to 1.

U.S. has 6 times the population. Have to normalize. It's 66:1 based on population. I'm assuming the working populations are similar demographics tho.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gordon Watson
United Kingdom
Banstead
Surrey - United Kingdom
flag msg tools
ASL - other tactical wargames call it Sir.
badge
Beneath this mask there is an idea.....and ideas are bulletproof.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
BFoy wrote:
DavidDearlove wrote:
Number of UK employees killed by disgruntled colleague with gun last year = 0.
But carry on believing guns protect you.


So the employee is poisoned instead of shot, dead is dead. Workplace violence is common in the UK as well as here. I don't mind responsible gun ownership, but saying guns can't be useful tools is as silly as saying guns solve all problems. I favor practical solutions instead of ideology.


You do realise that it is the rabidly adhered to ideology of the right to individual gun ownership that denies the US from access to a practical solution of gun control.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Dearlove
United Kingdom
Isleworth
Middx
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
maxo-texas wrote:
DavidDearlove wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
I don't know about that fact... so let's go to the tape and see what johnny web says...

First.. the U.K.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/statistics/causinj/violence/index.htm
Quote:

The risk of work related violence is similar in 2015/16 to the last five years, with an estimated 1.4 per cent of working adults the victims of one or more violent incidents at work.
In 2015/16 350,000 adults of working age in employment experienced work related violence including threats and physical assault.
There were estimated 698,000 incidents of violence at work according to the 2015/16 CSEW, comprising 329,000 assaults and 369,000 threats. The number of assaults was broadly similar to the last few years however the number of threats was significantly higher due to the inclusion of work-related online threats for the first time.
The 2015/16 CSEW found that 1.3% of women and 1.5% of men were victims of violence at work once or more during the year prior to their interview.
It is estimated that 56% of victims reported one incident of work related violence whilst 18 % experienced two incidents of work related violence and 26% experienced three or more incidents in 2015/16.
Strangers were the offenders in 46% of cases of workplace violence. Among the 54% of incidents where the offender was known, the offenders were most likely to be clients or a member of the public known through work.
67% per cent of violence at work resulted in no physical injury, of the remaining 33% of cases, minor bruising or a black eye accounted for the majority of the injuries recorded.
RIDDOR reported 4,697 injuries to employees, where the ‘kind of accident’ was ‘physical assault/act of violence’ in Great Britain (England, Wales and Scotland). This represents 6.5% of all reported workplace injuries. Of this figure, there was one death. (RIDDOR, 2015/16p).


Now, the U.S.

Quote:
https://ovc.ncjrs.gov/ncvrw2016/content/section-6/PDF/2016NC...


400 homicides due to work place violence per year (excluding police and security guards).

Rates for workplace violence were 8.7/1000 for government employees and 4.7/1000 for private employees.


Note: It appears the u.k. number also includes verbal violence while that is excluded in the u.s. numbers. I don't think we even track them formally in the u.s. Another CNN site set our total workplace violence of all kinds at 2 million incidents which is about 1.6% rate. That's similar to U.K.

http://money.cnn.com/2015/08/26/news/workplace-violence-virg...

Adjusting for population, u.s. workplace violence appears to have a similar overall right but 80x the death rate (adjusting for population size).





No we had less than 5000 injuries due to violence. From 329,000 assaults. Our 1.4% includes 369,000 threats including internet threats which you don't include. Your 1.6% is actual violence. i.e. not comparable.
The US is a very violent place.
400 deaths compared with 1.


It's not 400 deaths to 1.

U.S. has 6 times the population. Have to normalize. It's 66:1 based on population. I'm assuming the working populations are similar demographics tho.

Yes true. but your violence rate is at least twice ours.
We have the occasional punch up, you have mass shootings.
The last time someone was killed with a firearm by a coworker in the UK was a bolt gun for killing sheep during the foot and mouth outbreak. This was during a row. Guns escalate violence rapidly. They don't protect people, they cause deaths.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jonathan C
United States
Iowa
flag msg tools
badge
"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep, to gain what he cannot lose."
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
maxo-texas wrote:


https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2017/06/14/ups-shooter-s...#
Quote:
SAN FRANCISCO — A gunman killed three coworkers and wounded two others at a sprawling UPS facility here Wednesday before fatally turning the gun on himself, UPS and police said.

Police identified Jimmy Lam, a disgruntled employee from San Francisco, as the shooter in a press conference late Wednesday here.

Responding officers encountered multiple shooting victims in the building at around 9 am local time, San Francisco Assistant Police Chief Toney Chaplin said during a news conference outside the building.

When one of the police teams located Lam, who was armed with an assault pistol, "the suspect put the gun to his head and discharged the weapon,” Chaplin said.

Victims of the rampage were found inside and outside the UPS building, according to authorities.

(more)...



One of my friends from high school was involved in this incident. He works at UPS in SF and narrowly missed being shot. His friend was killed.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.