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Subject: Rules lots of questions being asked rss

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gary gee
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Seems the rulebook isn't as good as first thought as there are lots of people querying lots of things..i think one way this could have been done better would be to have a kind of first time starting sheet as a lot of the games have now.just laying out full setup and first round of actions.i think this would have sorted a lot of the questions being asked out.

I don't know what you guys think?..im not too bad with things but there have been a few areas when I first started playing where it was a bit vague.

great game though
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Dustin Crenshaw
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I think it's a pretty good rulebook. A few parts could have been clearer. But it's a smooth read that's laid out really well. Plus, lots of examples with pictures.
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Moose Detective
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tootz wrote:
Seems the rulebook isn't as good as first thought as there are lots of people querying lots of things..i think one way this could have been done better would be to have a kind of first time starting sheet as a lot of the games have now.just laying out full setup and first round of actions.i think this would have sorted a lot of the questions being asked out.

I don't know what you guys think?..im not too bad with things but there have been a few areas when I first started playing where it was a bit vague.

great game though


Any new hot game that everyone gets at the same time has tons of questions. Lots of people JUST got their game and are playing it for the first time this weekend.
Any game that is trying to be RPG-ish with multiple characters, multiple enemies, multiple conditions, etc etc is going to have tons of questions. And tons of edge-cases even if the rulebook is perfect.

People need to just look at other games on BGG before jumping to the "rules questions = bad rulebook" thing.
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Chris Gordy
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Also, from reading through, many of the questions, I think it is obvious that many people just skim the rule book and then come here and ask questions. As mentioned it seems like a lot because there are so many people learning the game at the same time as the kickstarter games are just now being delivered.
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Vasilis
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To me it's pretty obvious that people aren't really reading the rulebook. They just take a look and wing it. Then when they stumble, they post here. Many of the questions being asked are indeed answered in the manual, if you care to read it carefully...
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gary gee
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probably,when one of the big hitters who do playthroughs put a playthrough up on youtube etc..probably sort a few things out for some!...anyway,got to get back to the game I'm getting my ass handed to me on a plate at the momentshake
 
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Adam Tin
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I dont have my game yet so I can't comment
 
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nick licari

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a playthrough will definitely help if someone publishes a thorough one. It took me about 3 hours to get through the first quest. from having read the beta rule book once last week. So Basically started from scratch, however once we got to the first story event at that point we had it almost all figured out.

I am nervous for starting the real quests as im sure they will take time since theres a lot I havent figured out. there is so much to this game I love it.
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Joe Schmoe
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TheStreetzKing wrote:
a playthrough will definitely help if someone publishes a thorough one. It took me about 3 hours to get through the first quest. from having read the beta rule book once last week. So Basically started from scratch, however once we got to the first story event at that point we had it almost all figured out.

I am nervous for starting the real quests as im sure they will take time since theres a lot I havent figured out. there is so much to this game I love it.


What do you mean by "Real Quests"?
 
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Kevin Ryan
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Yeah, whenever a new, highly anticipated game hits a bunch of tables at once, there is a flood of questions. That is pretty normal. I think the proper distinction is between those games that generate lots of questions but few definitive answers, and those games that generate lots of questions that are quickly answered (for the most part) by others also reading the same rulebook. This game is clearly in the second category.

Another distinction is this: sometimes games provoke lots of questions because of ambiguities in the ruleset. And other times because folks just have not read the entire rulebook carefully yet. I think many of the questions I looked at seemed to be also in category two. I myself had a couple of questions that were answered as I read on.

Coming from two Italian speakers, I think this rulebook is a paragon of clarity. It could have been very bad, but it is in fact, very good. Ares is a great company. And the support for their games is beyond stellar. War of the Ring may be the most FAQ'ed, noted, dissected, rules-clarified and discussed game in the universe.

At any rate, thanks to the two great designers for this game.
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Simone Romano
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nat whilk wrote:
Yeah, whenever a new, highly anticipated game hits a bunch of tables at once, there is a flood of questions. That is pretty normal. I think the proper distinction is between those games that generate lots of questions but few definitive answers, and those games that generate lots of questions that are quickly answered (for the most part) by others also reading the same rulebook. This game is clearly in the second category.

Another distinction is this: sometimes games provoke lots of questions because of ambiguities in the ruleset. And other times because folks just have not read the entire rulebook carefully yet. I think many of the questions I looked at seemed to be also in category two. I myself had a couple of questions that were answered as I read on.

Coming from two Italian speakers, I think this rulebook is a paragon of clarity. It could have been very bad, but it is in fact, very good. Ares is a great company. And the support for their games is beyond stellar. War of the Ring may be the most FAQ'ed, noted, dissected, rules-clarified and discussed game in the universe.

At any rate, thanks to the two great designers for this game.


Wow! Thanks to you for your interest and especially for your kind words,
It's a great compliment for us
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I haven't played yet, but it doesn't seem too bad. The biggest issue I see is that there is no consolidated token guide. I also wish there was a rules/keyword glossary along the lines of what Kingdom Death has. It's saved me so much time it that game.
 
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nick licari

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chouwee wrote:


What do you mean by "Real Quests"?



Just meant that the first quest was prologue and probably vague compared to what's in store for the rest of the campaign
 
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Skaak
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tootz wrote:
Seems the rulebook isn't as good as first thought as there are lots of people querying lots of things


This is nothing; you should have seen the Galaxy Defenders forums in the early days.

In particular it's super telling to me that people are asking things like whether the Bag item takes up an inventory slot but we haven't had a single question that I can recall yet about enemy targeting or similar, which is still something that gives GD players fits years later.

There are a lot of details to track initially, but overall I've been incredibly impressed how much more clear and comprehensive the S&S ruleset is compared to GD. Really fantastic work on the part of the Gremlins, and good on them for learning so much on the first go-round.
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Jim Johnson
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Bowmangr wrote:
To me it's pretty obvious that people aren't really reading the rulebook. They just take a look and wing it. Then when they stumble, they post here. Many of the questions being asked are indeed answered in the manual, if you care to read it carefully...


Snarky, sweeping replies like yours add nothing to these posts. People absorb rules at different rates. Granted there may be some who skim the rules and go into their first game unprepared; but, you cannot assume that everyone who asks a question (even one answered in the rulebook) didn't do their homework. Perhaps they were distracted and skipped over that particular paragraph.

I've been playing these games for over forty years; and, I feel I have a pretty good grasp on how to assimilate a ruleset. I don't have the game yet; but, I have the rulebook, and have read it cover to cover three times. For some reason I can't explain, I am having some difficulty getting my brain wrapped around these rules. I'm not going straight to "This is a badly written book"; but, I will say that it is more laborious to read and retain the rules than with other rule books I have read.

It's fine to post opinions; but, please don't disrespect others when doing so.
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Makis Xiroyannis
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dakkadakka1 wrote:
Bowmangr wrote:
To me it's pretty obvious that people aren't really reading the rulebook. They just take a look and wing it. Then when they stumble, they post here. Many of the questions being asked are indeed answered in the manual, if you care to read it carefully...


Snarky, sweeping replies like yours add nothing to these posts. People absorb rules at different rates. Granted there may be some who skim the rules and go into their first game unprepared; but, you cannot assume that everyone who asks a question (even one answered in the rulebook) didn't do their homework. Perhaps they were distracted and skipped over that particular paragraph.

I've been playing these games for over forty years; and, I feel I have a pretty good grasp on how to assimilate a ruleset. I don't have the game yet; but, I have the rulebook, and have read it cover to cover three times. For some reason I can't explain, I am having some difficulty getting my brain wrapped around these rules. I'm not going straight to "This is a badly written book"; but, I will say that it is more laborious to read and retain the rules than with other rule books I have read.

It's fine to post opinions; but, please don't disrespect others when doing so.


Though I understand your point, and that the comment "people aren't reading the rulebook" is a generalization at best, he has a valid point. Everyone is judging other people, by how he or she would read a rulebook. But I *know* people who only scan through rulebooks, and simply ask questions when they need something (as opposed to spend some time searching). I will not comment whether its a good or bad practice, but it is happening.

As for the rulebook itself I read it twice, seems fine to me, above the average if I may say. Still, I too have vague areas, maybe they will clear out when I have the game in my hands.
 
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gary gee
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as I said earlier maybe once a couple of playthroughs with complete setup have been done a lot more people will get their head around the parts they just cant quite grasp... or possibly a quick start sheet like some of the other games have are pretty good for getting into the games
 
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Russell Harley
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TheStreetzKing wrote:
a playthrough will definitely help if someone publishes a thorough one. It took me about 3 hours to get through the first quest. from having read the beta rule book once last week. So Basically started from scratch, however once we got to the first story event at that point we had it almost all figured out.

I am nervous for starting the real quests as im sure they will take time since theres a lot I havent figured out. there is so much to this game I love it.


This might help

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1798933/prolog-walktroughtu...
 
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Hector Garza
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I think it's a pretty good rulebook. Lots of pictures and examples.

I think there is a bit of a steep learning curve not so much that the rules are complicated but there's definitely a lot of steps to memorize imo and can be very easy to forget some.

S&S does a lot of things differently from most dungeon crawlers and it can be easy to make assumptions about certain mechanics.

The rules kind of jump around a bit introducing concepts early on that aren't explained until later chapters (though it does reference where to look them up).

Personally I have had to reread rulebook several times for it all to sink in but now that I 'get it' it flows nicely.
 
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