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Subject: New stuff from Riot Games announced - Map editor & weekly puzzles rss

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Thilo M.
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Hi,

just wanted to share that Chris Cantrell, the designer, just wrote in a thread about possible expansions:

https://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/26176670#26176670



Riot Kades wrote:
We're listening. It might not be what you're expecting, but I hope to have more to share in the next month or so.


I put this thread in the news section to increase the visibility of this exciting prospect!

Edit: it has since been revealed that he was talking about the map editor and the weekly puzzles. I have updated the subject accordingly.
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Graham
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Re: New stuff from Riot Games announced
GrandKhan44 wrote:
Hi,

just wanted to share that in another thread,

https://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/26176670#26176670


Chris Cantrell, the designer, just wrote in the context of possible expansions:

Riot Kades wrote:
We're listening. It might not be what you're expecting, but I hope to have more to share in the next month or so.


I put this thread in the news section to increase the visibility of this exciting prospect!


This timing is perfect: my son and I have just finished Mission 9 and we're both lamenting the prospect of running out of envelopes to open! I'm looking forward to telling him when he gets home from school that more content may be on the way...
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Thilo M.
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Re: New stuff from Riot Games announced
MuddieFunkster wrote:
GrandKhan44 wrote:
Hi,

just wanted to share that in another thread,

https://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/26176670#26176670


Chris Cantrell, the designer, just wrote in the context of possible expansions:

Riot Kades wrote:
We're listening. It might not be what you're expecting, but I hope to have more to share in the next month or so.


I put this thread in the news section to increase the visibility of this exciting prospect!


This timing is perfect: my son and I have just finished Mission 9 and we're both lamenting the prospect of running out of envelopes to open! I'm looking forward to telling him when he gets home from school that more content may be on the way...


It could be a completeley different game, though - after all new envelopes is what most people are expecting...
 
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Brian C
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Re: New stuff from Riot Games announced
As awesome as M&M looked, I wasn't interested in investing in a one-and-done game.

If they are going to fill this game out? Shoot -- sign me up for a copy from the next batch.
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Graham
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Re: New stuff from Riot Games announced
Any additional content will be greatly received...additional minis would be awesome, new character, new bosses, new locations...I must stop. Be patient, breath, wait for the official reveal...
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Jon Olsén
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Re: New stuff from Riot Games announced
I would guess it is an entirely new game to be honest, but we will see =)
 
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James
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Re: New stuff from Riot Games announced
Exo Desta wrote:
As awesome as M&M looked, I wasn't interested in investing in a one-and-done game.

If they are going to fill this game out? Shoot -- sign me up for a copy from the next batch.


It's not really a one and done game. I've played the first couple of missions a bunch of times as I taught it to new people, and had fun every time.
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Brian C
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Re: New stuff from Riot Games announced
eviljelloman wrote:
Exo Desta wrote:
As awesome as M&M looked, I wasn't interested in investing in a one-and-done game.

If they are going to fill this game out? Shoot -- sign me up for a copy from the next batch.


It's not really a one and done game. I've played the first couple of missions a bunch of times as I taught it to new people, and had fun every time.

I didn't mean that you could only play the base game once..!

I just meant in terms of expansion content. If they are committed to bringing out more heroes, more map tiles, more scenarios -- more stuff -- then I'm much more comfortable in that initial investment.
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Thilo M.
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Re: New stuff from Riot Games announced
Exo Desta wrote:
eviljelloman wrote:
Exo Desta wrote:
As awesome as M&M looked, I wasn't interested in investing in a one-and-done game.

If they are going to fill this game out? Shoot -- sign me up for a copy from the next batch.


It's not really a one and done game. I've played the first couple of missions a bunch of times as I taught it to new people, and had fun every time.

I didn't mean that you could only play the base game once..!

I just meant in terms of expansion content. If they are committed to bringing out more heroes, more map tiles, more scenarios -- more stuff -- then I'm much more comfortable in that initial investment.


Well, you could also see it this way:

They developed the game over 2-3 years, and put in 10 scenarios that could also be played on a standalone basis.

They could have released just the base game with 3 scenarios for $60, then a year later the first expansion with the "special character in that box" for $30 and a year later the lava tiles with 4 more missions for $25 - they would have to change the scenarios a bit for this to work, but not much.

So you get the game with 2 fully developed expansions AND everything 2 years early for $75 instead of $115. I think they already have shown more commitment to this game than most other companies, only they release everything upfront - and maybe we still get something extra...
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Brant Benoit
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Re: New stuff from Riot Games announced
Exo Desta wrote:
eviljelloman wrote:
Exo Desta wrote:
As awesome as M&M looked, I wasn't interested in investing in a one-and-done game.

If they are going to fill this game out? Shoot -- sign me up for a copy from the next batch.


It's not really a one and done game. I've played the first couple of missions a bunch of times as I taught it to new people, and had fun every time.

I didn't mean that you could only play the base game once..!

I just meant in terms of expansion content. If they are committed to bringing out more heroes, more map tiles, more scenarios -- more stuff -- then I'm much more comfortable in that initial investment.


In comparison to most games of this type, it's a screaming deal. This isn't a Euro that costs $40.
This a full on pimped out amazing looking game and experience for half of what most games of its type cost.

So I really donot get the hesitation because it doesn't have 40 expansions. This isn't FFG but this game really sets the bar for how fun it is, the production and the cost.

I'd pay $75 for this over $100 for the latest FFG title any day. Even without any further content.
You are simply allowing yourself to miss out on a great game because of modern consumer habits.
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Brian C
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Re: New stuff from Riot Games announced
I'm not saying it's not an amazing deal already. I believe you guys.

But it's still a ~$100 investment. And without hope of further content, that hundred bucks seems better spent on a game that wants to become more fun over time.

That's just the logic ingrained into me by my folks, who taught me to find the best deal that you can. Now I don't mind paying top dollar for a great game (I'm looking at fun per square hour here), but when you invest into a game that's dead ended in terms of content.. that money won't have gone as far as it otherwise might have, if you'd put it into a game that is still growing.

Now am I missing out on a great game because of this? I absolutely believe so. But there are other Great Games out there who have promised to become even greater as time passes, and it's just that I prefer to invest in those ones instead.

Looking forward to hopping on the M&M bandwagon though, if they do decide to roll out more content.
 
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James
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Re: New stuff from Riot Games announced
Exo Desta wrote:

But it's still a ~$100 investment. And without hope of further content, that hundred bucks seems better spent on a game that wants to become more fun over time.


So by that logic, Gloomhaven is a bad investment because it only includes the content in the box, with no planned expansions?
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Brian C
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Re: New stuff from Riot Games announced
eviljelloman wrote:
Exo Desta wrote:

But it's still a ~$100 investment. And without hope of further content, that hundred bucks seems better spent on a game that wants to become more fun over time.


So by that logic, Gloomhaven is a bad investment because it only includes the content in the box, with no planned expansions?

No Planned Expansions is very different than No Expansions Ever.

But regardless, I am paying for your creativity, your imagination. These things ought to be boundless. If you tell me up front that you have a limit to your creativity, for whatever reason (and in this case could there be a better one?) -- but even so, in that case I will go find a designer who doesn't.
 
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Thilo M.
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Re: New stuff from Riot Games announced
Exo Desta wrote:
eviljelloman wrote:
Exo Desta wrote:

But it's still a ~$100 investment. And without hope of further content, that hundred bucks seems better spent on a game that wants to become more fun over time.


So by that logic, Gloomhaven is a bad investment because it only includes the content in the box, with no planned expansions?

No Planned Expansions is very different than No Expansions Ever.

But regardless, I am paying for your creativity, your imagination. These things ought to be boundless. If you tell me up front that you have a limit to your creativity, for whatever reason (and in this case could there be a better one?) -- but even so, in that case I will go find a designer who doesn't.

So you only watch a movie if you know there is a sequel?
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Brian C
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Re: New stuff from Riot Games announced
GrandKhan44 wrote:
So you only watch a movie if you know there is a sequel?

And do I only drive a car if I know they are going to continue making the same model for years to come?

Compelling questions! Great work once again BGG.
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James
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Re: New stuff from Riot Games announced
Exo Desta wrote:
If you tell me up front that you have a limit to your creativity, for whatever reason (and in this case could there be a better one?) -- but even so, in that case I will go find a designer who doesn't.


This is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read on BGG, and that's a LOFTY goal to accomplish. Congratulations, I guess?
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Brian C
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Re: New stuff from Riot Games announced
eviljelloman wrote:
Exo Desta wrote:
If you tell me up front that you have a limit to your creativity, for whatever reason (and in this case could there be a better one?) -- but even so, in that case I will go find a designer who doesn't.


This is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read on BGG, and that's a LOFTY goal to accomplish. Congratulations, I guess?


Hey, thanks!
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Anthony Frey
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Re: New stuff from Riot Games announced
eviljelloman wrote:
Exo Desta wrote:
As awesome as M&M looked, I wasn't interested in investing in a one-and-done game.

If they are going to fill this game out? Shoot -- sign me up for a copy from the next batch.


It's not really a one and done game. I've played the first couple of missions a bunch of times as I taught it to new people, and had fun every time.


Totally agree, the game doesn't require more content to stay fun.
I personally prefer games that wont require me to purchase tons of expansions to stay fun. No room for expansions.

MvsM has enough variability that even the base set of scenarios, which is already a lot of content, can be played countless times and still be fun every time.

I'm super curious about what they might be planning though.
I may very well break my no expansions rule for this game.
 
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James J
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Re: New stuff from Riot Games announced
Exo Desta wrote:
I'm not saying it's not an amazing deal already. I believe you guys.

But it's still a ~$100 investment. And without hope of further content, that hundred bucks seems better spent on a game that wants to become more fun over time.

That's just the logic ingrained into me by my folks, who taught me to find the best deal that you can. Now I don't mind paying top dollar for a great game (I'm looking at fun per square hour here), but when you invest into a game that's dead ended in terms of content.. that money won't have gone as far as it otherwise might have, if you'd put it into a game that is still growing.


I just don't get this. It might be that game prices are drastically different over in the US compared to the UK, but as an example, an FFG game I'm particularly fond of is Star Wars: Imperial Assault. Now, the base game is almost as much as Mechs v Minions cost me, almost, but not quite, so for safe measure we'll throw in the first small box expansion.

Now using your logic you're saying that by there being more expansions you're getting more 'bang for your buck' but in general expansions costs more than the base game, or rather, the cost-content ratio is often worse (rarely is the expansion actually more expensive in raw cost terms). So for me to 'continue getting worth' out of the Imperial Assault core box, I have to buy Hoth, and Jabba's Realm, which both add up to more than the cost of MvM and combined have less in the box than MvM does. How can this possibly be 'better value'?

My point is, it's not like expansions are free, they come at a cost, and usually a steep one relative to the base game value you originally purchased. So the logic of 'buying a game with lots of expansions will mean I get more money out of my initial $75' seems quite flawed to me.

I'd like to point out, though, I'm a huge sucker for expansions and do buy them like there's no tomorrow, but on the other hand I also own MvM.
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Brian C
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Re: New stuff from Riot Games announced
You have a good point -- expansions usually aren't very cost effective. And in the end, if you really broke it down into Hours of Fun Had per Dollar Spent, it may very well be that just owning the base game of a game, any base game, and especially this base game, happens to be the very best value, opposed to having everything that was put out for it.

But I'm looking at it more like this: If I'm going to make the effort to invest a modest amount of money on something, I want that money to be put into something that I can keep investing in.

To get creepy with the analogies again: If I buy a bunch of hamburg, I want to buy some hamburg buns to make use of that hamburg. And some mayo, and mustard, and pickles. Then I'm gonna probably get some chips, and make a meal out of it.

I know that if I just cooked and ate that hamburg plain, it would be the most cost efficient way of doing things -- and that would be the way to do things, if you were in a certain kind of way.. but if you can afford the extras, isn't that what life is about?

Yes, I know that game is great, from everything I've heard and seen, and I can invest the ~$90-$100 into it, and have fun with it. Or let's assume that I can find another game that I'm able to have every bit as much fun with, and it cost the same -- but I was able to buy more for it down the road, making it even better.

That's the investment for me. *shrug*
 
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Byron S
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Re: New stuff from Riot Games announced
Exo Desta wrote:
Yes, I know that game is great, from everything I've heard and seen, and I can invest the ~$90-$100 into it, and have fun with it.

This game costs exactly $80 with shipping, so I'm not sure why you keep quoting an extra $10-20.
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Brian C
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Re: New stuff from Riot Games announced
runtsta wrote:
Exo Desta wrote:
Yes, I know that game is great, from everything I've heard and seen, and I can invest the ~$90-$100 into it, and have fun with it.

This game costs exactly $80 with shipping, so I'm not sure why you keep quoting an extra $10-20.

I had thought you'd understand from the "~" symbol before those numbers that they were just stabs in the dark.

But imagine that I've said exactly $80 as the price for this game, in each of my posts, and I wouldn't change another word.
 
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Des T.
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Re: New stuff from Riot Games announced
Exo Desta wrote:

But regardless, I am paying for your creativity, your imagination. These things ought to be boundless. If you tell me up front that you have a limit to your creativity, for whatever reason (and in this case could there be a better one?) -- but even so, in that case I will go find a designer who doesn't.


So you basically dislike all standalone games? Like Gloomhaven, Ticket to Ride, LE: Alien and so on?

What if a publisher stops expanding a game, at some point, like Arkham Horror? Do you give it away because they suddenly "limited their creativity" and the game thus magically became worth less?
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Re: New stuff from Riot Games announced
Exo Desta wrote:
As awesome as M&M looked, I wasn't interested in investing in a one-and-done game.

If they are going to fill this game out? Shoot -- sign me up for a copy from the next batch.


The game is very much not one-and-done. And doesn't require filling out (though I am extremely open to more content). If anything I get more use out of MvM than typical "infinitely replayable blah blah" garbage like Pandemic. And certainly more than some of the expansion-bloated games I have (and enjoy mind you) like Eldritch Horror.

eviljelloman wrote:
So by that logic, Gloomhaven is a bad investment because it only includes the content in the box, with no planned expansions?


And actually Gloomhaven has a big box expansion coming... not officially scheduled, but publicly mentioned more than once by the creator. And I don't mean Founders!
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Re: New stuff from Riot Games announced
It will hold its value, so you can play it until you're sick of it, then recoup all or most of your money by selling it, or just try it at a game convention.
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