Richard A. Edwards
United States
Lacey
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As a librarian (Ret.) I appreciate information organization. So when playing a game set in a historical era, I tend to dive into unit organization.

I very much appreciate the section Table 10-100 "Organization of the 8th and 15th Air Forces" and the charts that followed. Steve has done a lot of work to provide us with an amazing breadth of historical background.

And I admit that this concept of historical organization position is an optional rule and in no way affects game play.

However, I have some issues with the ensuing charts. (Yes, I know some were missing but I have printed the errata charts and have them at hand, so that's not the problem)

First, I tend toward a chronological view of events and so admit that what I wanted was a historical unit assignment that fit with Campaign #1 in 1942, but the randomized charts ignore date, though dates are provided once you arrive at a result. I would have liked to have seen units organized by campaign start making it more historical for the campaign we're beginning.

If I choose the 8th, I roll for Division Assignment on 10-103. This chart uses 1-3 for selection and rerolls on 4-6. This seems inefficient so I changed my chart to read 1-2 1st, 3-4 2nd, and 5-6 3rd. I understand the desire for consistency, using one number per entry with a reroll for any remaining numbers, but for this one chart, that's just unneeded.

I rolled and ended up in 2nd Division, but when I went to their charts (10-103-2), all the Bomb Wings were dated 1943 or later and I was beginning campaign 1 in 1942.

Looking at the various charts for Wing Assignment for the divisions, I see that only ONE chart (1st Air Division) has any Wing listed as 1942. And this is the 2nd BW. Is it really the case that the 1st BW served 1943-45, starting after the 2nd?

10-103-1, The 2nd BW entry says 1942/1945. Should this be a dash (1942-1945) instead? It seems odd to think it started, stopped and restarted?

Since I choose the 1st Division, 2nd Wing (I'm starting with campaign 1 in 1942 and that seems to be the only Wing listed for that time period), I roll on 10-105-1 for Group/Squadron Assignment.

I end up in 453rd Bomb Group, 732nd Bomb Squadron.

The historical 732nd Bombardment Squadron was established mid-1943 and not deployed until December 1943. So despite my attempt to stay historical within the 1942 start time for campaign 1, I ended up in a non-historical squadron.

And they flew B-24s, not the B-17s listed at the top of chart 10-105-1.

And where I started was simply to fill in the box on the Log Sheet for Base Location. But how can I do that when there are no lists of historical bases?

Researching the 453rd, I find they were stationed at Old Buckenham from late 43-45. A cool fact, Jimmy Stewart was assigned as Group Operations Officer of the 453rd in 1944.

While I sincerely appreciate the historical information expansion of Target for Today over B-17 Queen of the Skies, it was a long walk just to find out what squadron I'm assigned to and which base. And in the end run nothing I did kept it historical within the campaign time start.

What would be more useful to me would be lists of Divisions/Wings/Groups/Squadrons by time period in order, along with their bases. Is there such a resource?

Finally, this post is in no way meant to be critical of Steve or the hard work and labor of love he obviously put into this game. You really have to love the subject and information organization to put together so many, many charts and tables with so much detail. I sincerely appreciate his work.

The tables just didn't lead me where I wanted to go and I'm hoping for some alternative resources to help me arrive where I want to be, a historical squadron of the 8th, based in England in 1942 flying B-17Fs.

Any suggestions for alternative resources would be appreciated. I'm not seeking a single historical squadron (I can find one of those by researching) but rather a list of many so I can both randomize where I'm assigned and yet stay within the correct chronological period. Thanks.

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Ron A
United States
Coronado
California
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Try this page from the 8th AF Historical Society: http://www.8thafhs.org/bombgrps.htm You'll have to pull the data from the entry for each bomb group.


Stewart, by any accounting, performed heroically in the service of his country. Knowing that war was coming, he went on his own dime and earned his pilot's license, as well as multi engine and commercial transport ratings before he joined the army. He flew B-17s and B-24s (mostly the latter) on dozens of combat missions.

He stayed in the Reserves after WWII, was promoted to Brig. General, and flew a combat mission in a B-52 over Vietnam.

A quick recap of his service here: http://www.historynet.com/mr-stewart-goes-to-war.htm
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E Githens

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And THIS is why I love this community! kiss

We have a game, Target for Today, that provides us with an awesome and enjoyment-filled conduit to game out US air operations over Europe during WWII. It's readily evident that Steve Dixon, et. al. put countless hours and tremendous resources and effort into making this the most historically accurate representation of these air operations that we can lay our hands on.

And then we have the players, like Mr. Edwards, who brings forth knowledge and a desire to improve the game. He's highlighted facets of this game that he believes can be improved (and I agree with his issues. For instance, I pulled books from my shelf to determine what base my unit was historically assigned to during the period so that I could fill in the "Base" section of the Mission Sheet).

And then we have the rest of the community, who (probably before the summer is over), will have translated Mr. Edwards' (and others) ideas into a workable, logical, and FREE, update for ALL of us to implement.

When I discovered this website last year, after over a decade away from war boardgaming in general, and my favorite game (B-17 Queen of the Skies) specifically, I was elated to find all of the upgrades, formats, ideas, and modifications to QotS.

I fully expect TfT will find the same level of attention and activity.

Keep up the good work, folks! Y'ALL ROCK!!

AFIntel
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Eric Schatzschneider
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I ran into the same problem that you did, Richard. So I took some of the links that Ron listed and other sources and put together some tables for doing assignment of Division/Wing/Group/Squadron for the 1942 Campaign #1.

Spreadsheet with assignment tables:
https://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/149943/1942-compaign-bomb...
 
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Richard A. Edwards
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Lacey
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That's great! Thanks.

I started compiling date info for all the groups in the 8th and stalled dealing with so much data before I accomplished anything useful.

 
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Dan Nelson
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I have a file currently awaiting approval to help with these issues.

The 8th Air Force was restructured and reorganized several times throughout the war. This caused bomb groups to have multiple bomb wing/ air division assignments. In the original tables, 12 groups were duplicated, 7 groups were listed 3 times, and the 93rd and 351st were both listed 4 times. The last major reorganization was done on September 13th and 14th 1943. I used the bomb wing and air division assignments after this time in my file. Each group’s first combat mission is included to give an accurate start date for your campaign.

I have removed two groups from the tables. The 301st and 97th Bomb Groups flew 8 missions and 14 missions respectively with the 8th Air Force before being transferred to the 12th Air Force in North Africa.

I have also included a slight variation for Pathfinder crews. As stated in the rules, the 482nd BG was created to train and provide Pathfinder crews. Crews and bombers would be detached to other groups to lead missions. If your first unit assignment roll lands you in the 482nd, you roll for a second bomb group assignment after finding out your squadron/aircraft assignment. Lead and Pathfinder rules kick in after your 5th mission.

I had fun with this project. I consider myself fairly well-read on heavy bomber operations in Europe during WWII, but had did not know that 5 bomb groups were converted from B-24s to B-17s.

I want to stress that is not intended to criticize the work that Steve, Bob, and Shawn did on this game. This started as tweaking something that bugged me, and I quickly fell down the rabbit hole.

Schatzy uploaded tables here that can be used to roll for a historically accurate assignment for campaign #1.

Information was sourced from groups’ Wikipedia entry (I know…), the 8th Air Force Historical Society web page, the IWM’s American Air Museum in Britain’s unit listing, and individual bomb group association web pages.
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frank clauwaert
Belgium
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Hello,
At the beginning of the bomber missions weren't the a/c B17E in stead of B17F ?
I understand that for playing purposes we do use the B17F
Grts
Frank
 
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