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Subject: Ok GM's help me find the Last Round Draft pick... rss

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Scott O'Brien
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So i have been told by a few friends, whom we all watch hockey together, that if Board gaming was like Hockey, my team would never fit under the salary cap, because my team would all be only superstars and no grinders.

Let me translate that into BGGspeak for you...

Yes, i admit, I use the rankings, and use them heavily.
It's true, my collection focuses on the strategy top 350, I dont much look below that, though I do have many games going down into the 750 area.

Here is my challenge for you: Help me find a great EURO game which is:


1 The game must be ranked no higher than 750 on the Strategy List or 1500 on the All boardgames ranking list.
2 The game should be findable through purchase or trade. Please nothing super out of print, impossible to find.
3 The game must not appear on my owned, previously owned, want in trade, want in buy, want in play (means one of my friends owns it) or wishlist.
4 Use my gaming profile, use my top 10, hot 10, and ratings to strengthen your argument.
5 List its ranking and convince me why its a great game that I should buy.



Here are some quick facts about me / my group:

coffee We like medium/medium-heavy Euro games that are 90 minutes to 2 hours or less. We like games with easy to learn rules, but take years to master.

d10-3d10-5 My game group is always min 3 - max 5 players. I will accept games which only do 4.

Mechanics We like: Worker Placement, Engine Building, Resource management, Card Drafting, Role Selection, Tableau Building, and things which can be used in many different ways.

bacon If a game is not A/P prone, likely it is too easy for our group. Dry and Crunchy = mostly good.

wheat Agricola over Caverna or Viticulture, we like the tension.

6 Eclipse over TI3. Banking in space is actually fun.

colonist Wood over plastic. I'm not impressed by plastic miniatures.

heart My Favorite non-Agricola Rosenburg is Loyang.

1vp We love almost all feld games, including Castles, Bruges, Trajan, Notre Dame, and Aquarium. Point salad is healthy and tastes great.

blank I dont mind games with a pasted on or dry theme.

Abstract games are difficult to gauge, Dimension we love, Quarto we love, but Tigris and Euphrates completely bombed.

power Vital Lacarda's games are not too complex for my group, but take way too long to play.

meeple Keyflower and Five Tribes are in my top 5 of all time.

limecamel Marco Polo, Troyes, Grand Austria Hotel, Kingsburg, in that order.

sauron Star Trek over Star Wars on TV,
robot TOS over TNG, DS9 is garbage.
snore neither franchise has any really good games, except for maybe Federation Commander.

X We dont like or play Wargames.

nuclear My least favorite themes are Dungeon, Fantasy, Magic, Horror.

thumbsdownbag Games which we utterly failed at or really just hated:
Container, Captains of Industry, Panamax,
 
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Laura Creighton
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Why the 'no higher than X' constraint? Also, do you have a player-count constraint?
 
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Scott O'Brien
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lacreighton wrote:
Why the 'no higher than X' constraint? Also, do you have a player-count constraint?


3-5 players. Added to OP.

As I explained...I have too many many games in the top rankings. I have seen many threads lately about how the rankings are inflated, overused, and dont actually reflect the quality of the games.

So I want someone to find me a bottom ranked game which is just as enjoyable as the top ranked. This is as much about the credibility of an argument, as it is about finding a novelle new game.
 
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Jake Blomquist
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Hmm, this is a tough one. Looking at my favorite games, most are in the top 350 strategy as well. Though I don't think that's such a bad thing, plenty of these games still don't get much recognition. My instinct about those recent complaints is more about the top 10 or maybe top 100 games.

But anyway my two favorite games outside the top 750 are both on one list or another of yours (they're Asgard and Lignum - the latter of which has a second edition that just came out, so you should probably just buy it). There are a few games that I really like that are somewhere in the high 500s or low 600s on the strategy list that you don't have listed, if you're a little bit open on your ranking requirements. Those are Three Kingdoms Redux, Yunnan, and Helios though the former may be too long (and is 3p only) and the latter to light? If you want me to talk a bit about those I can, but I won't now in case the 750 limit is a hard limit.

Though actually, we might have different enough taste in games that it won't much matter? Vital Lacerda is consistently a favorite of mine, I hate Eclipse, Feld is incredibly hit or miss (Bruges being maybe my least favorite), Keyflower I find only ok, GAH>Troyes>Kingsburg>Marco Polo, Panamax I liked in spite of some weirdness, and DS9 is great.

But anyway, even if I'm not help I'll be following the thread to see if anything interesting I've never heard of pops up.
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Scott O'Brien
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jblomquist wrote:
Hmm, this is a tough one. Looking at my favorite games, most are in the top 350 strategy as well. Though I don't think that's such a bad thing, plenty of these games still don't get much recognition. My instinct about those recent complaints is more about the top 10 or maybe top 100 games.

But anyway my two favorite games outside the top 750 are both on one list or another of yours (they're Asgard and Lignum - the latter of which has a second edition that just came out, so you should probably just buy it). There are a few games that I really like that are somewhere in the high 500s or low 600s on the strategy list that you don't have listed, if you're a little bit open on your ranking requirements. Those are Three Kingdoms Redux, Yunnan, and Helios though the former may be too long (and is 3p only) and the latter to light? If you want me to talk a bit about those I can, but I won't now in case the 750 limit is a hard limit.

Though actually, we might have different enough taste in games that it won't much matter? Vital Lacerda is consistently a favorite of mine, I hate Eclipse, Feld is incredibly hit or miss (Bruges being maybe my least favorite), Keyflower I find only ok, GAH>Troyes>Kingsburg>Marco Polo, Panamax I liked in spite of some weirdness, and DS9 is great.

But anyway, even if I'm not help I'll be following the thread to see if anything interesting I've never heard of pops up.


Asgard has had my eye for awhile, and I plan to get it when I find a used copy in an auction.

Lignum was on my list when I saw its announcement, but I never really followed it, because I thought it was initially EU only. so I'd be interested in what you have to say about it.

Three Kingdom Redux does indeed look on the long side, but Helios & Yunna looks interesting on the surface, anything you can add about those would be welcome as well. I'll definately at least watch reviews about them.
 
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Olaf Slomp
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Well if it was Great and readily available, it would be in the top 1500, wouldnt it?
(or it would be a minor opinion that it is a great game, which then doesnt mean you agree)

Best I can offer you is Attila; plenty of copies in the Geek store. Ranks 1665 currently and is a decent Euro of medium heaviness.



Or, sitting at 1501, so just fitting your requirement; Power Grid: The Card Game

 
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Evan Scussel
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jblomquist wrote:
Hmm, this is a tough one. Looking at my favorite games, most are in the top 350 strategy as well. Though I don't think that's such a bad thing, plenty of these games still don't get much recognition. My instinct about those recent complaints is more about the top 10 or maybe top 100 games.

But anyway my two favorite games outside the top 750 are both on one list or another of yours (they're Asgard and Lignum - the latter of which has a second edition that just came out, so you should probably just buy it). There are a few games that I really like that are somewhere in the high 500s or low 600s on the strategy list that you don't have listed, if you're a little bit open on your ranking requirements. Those are Three Kingdoms Redux, Yunnan, and Helios though the former may be too long (and is 3p only) and the latter to light? If you want me to talk a bit about those I can, but I won't now in case the 750 limit is a hard limit.

Though actually, we might have different enough taste in games that it won't much matter? Vital Lacerda is consistently a favorite of mine, I hate Eclipse, Feld is incredibly hit or miss (Bruges being maybe my least favorite), Keyflower I find only ok, GAH>Troyes>Kingsburg>Marco Polo, Panamax I liked in spite of some weirdness, and DS9 is great.

But anyway, even if I'm not help I'll be following the thread to see if anything interesting I've never heard of pops up.


Jake, you rank Asgard a 9 out of 10. That game is ranked #797 in strategy and #1753 overall. That certainly falls within the OP's parameters. Why not that one?

EDIT: I read your post too quickly. You DO mention Asgard.
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Joshua Jones
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Maybe consider The Mines of Zavandor. It fits your rating constraints and can be had for less than $20 on Amazon. It's a little shorter than your normal fare (listed 45 to 90 min), but there are interesting decisions to be made. There is multi-currency bidding, a trait it shares with Keyflower. There is tension in bidding, because currency from losing bids is returned to the bidder but frozen for that round and cannot be used for the upgrade phase. I share similar tastes in many of your top games, so this one might be worth a look.
 
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'Bernard Wingrave'
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You state that abstracts are hit or miss. But you rate Connect 4 highly. If you rate it highly because it is a fast abstract, then consider:
Bughouse Chess

In fact, if you have two chess sets, you can get a chess clock app on a couple of phones (if you are hesitant to get a regular chess clock) and you're set.
 
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Scott O'Brien
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Olafslomp wrote:

Or, sitting at 1501, so just fitting your requirement; Power Grid: The Card Game



Captain N wrote:
Maybe consider The Mines of Zavandor.



Already Have both of these.
 
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Scott O'Brien
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bwingrave wrote:
You state that abstracts are hit or miss. But you rate Connect 4 highly. If you rate it highly because it is a fast abstract, then consider:
Bughouse Chess

In fact, if you have two chess sets, you can get a chess clock app on a couple of phones (if you are hesitant to get a regular chess clock) and you're set.



Sovereign Chess is one KS I am really sad never funded.
Unfortunately I only have 1 chess set.
 
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Mason Rouser
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Khronos. Hell, I'll even bring it over and teach it to you. Can be found for decent prices used.
 
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Jake Blomquist
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GoingTopShelf wrote:
Jake, you rank Asgard a 9 out of 10. That game is ranked #797 in strategy and #1753 overall. That certainly falls within the OP's parameters. Why not that one?

EDIT: I read your post too quickly. You DO mention Asgard.


Yeah, great game. I do mention it but I don't quite offer it as a suggestion only because it's already on OP's wishlist.

sao123 wrote:
Asgard has had my eye for awhile, and I plan to get it when I find a used copy in an auction.


Ah yeah, I sometimes forget that it's not as easy to get anymore. I remember that there was a decent span of time where it was on amazon for like $20-$25 with prime shipping. But that stopped at some point in the past.

sao123 wrote:
Lignum was on my list when I saw its announcement, but I never really followed it, because I thought it was initially EU only. so I'd be interested in what you have to say about it.


Yeah, it's really cool. Full disclosure I only played the first edition once and I haven't played my new second edition copy yet (which actually has its own entry and comes with a small expansion, so I can't really speak to those other that to say they look interesting).

The key word for Lignum is planning. Not only do you have to cut the wood but you also have to transport it to your camp and sawing it into timber can make it worth more money (money is the vp). But these all require hiring more workers and so spending more money, which can be really tight in this game. There's also a feed your people mechanic which is definitely non-trivial.

The main mechanic is sort of a directed worker placement like Egizia or Francis Drake where you have one guy and you're all going around a track first come first served, but once you've gone out you can't move backward. So there's a tough prioritization you need to do.

But for me the real thing that puts Lignum over the edge are the planned work and contract cards. For the latter you commit to getting a specific set of timber of different hardnesses and dried for different durations. They can have big payouts but you really have to plan for them.

And the planned work is even better. One of the action spots lets you commit to one of six (randomly chosen at the beginning of the game out of like ten or so?) special powers that make your actions much more efficient. But you commit for either one, two, or three rounds in the future and you can do each one of those once. But one thing you can do is time it so two or even three all go off on the same turn and then you have one huge crazy turn. But the point is that you have to reserve them ahead of time, so you really have to know what you're doing for the intervening rounds to be ready for when they come. It's really cool.

sao123 wrote:
Three Kingdom Redux does indeed look on the long side, but Helios & Yunna looks interesting on the surface, anything you can add about those would be welcome as well. I'll definately at least watch reviews about them.


Helios is pretty unique. You're taking these tiles that give you one of the three actions, but you also care about which color you get because if you get four of a kind with colors you get an immediate bonus action of any of the three, so you have to balance what action you want with what color you want. There are also a bunch of special buildings you can build and gods you can recruit to really tailor yourself to whatever you want to focus on. But it seems like no matter your focus all three of the main actions stay fairly valuable to everyone, which is cool. I do like this game a good amount but it does feel just a sliver less special to me than the others do, for whatever reason.

Yunnan is another cool one. The main thing is a mix of auction and worker placement, but then you're moving out across the board and the more guys you can get and the farther out they make it the more money they get. Then at the end of the round you choose how much of your income you take as money and how much you convert to points one to one. First one to 80 points wins. It has that classic engine builder thing of figuring out when to transition from building to running, but this one feels particularly fast to me (I often find my instinct is to wait a bit too long in these games but this one even moreso). But I don't know, I think I like this one as much as I do because it's always felt a bit mysterious to me. I get the feeling that you could exert more control than I seem to be able to. Now maybe I'm wrong about that and in my last game I started to feel like the early game is just a bit more arbitrary than I'd like, but it still feels like there's plenty to be discovered.

Hopefully this helps. If you're interested I do try to maintain comments on all of the games I've played, if you want to just get a better feel for where I'm coming from with my thoughts.
 
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'Bernard Wingrave'
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Helios may be played online at the free turn-based site Yucata.de if you want to try before you buy. I have played it once there and could do a game with you if you are interested.
 
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Scott O'Brien
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ok, so I decided to order Lignum (second edition) and Haspelknecht

I'm debating attempting to trade Panamax for Asgard.

Another friend suggested I look into Paradox, which I will do shortly.

Still interested in Yunnan and Helios
 
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