Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
14 Posts

Wargames» Forums » General

Subject: A simple survey: Red Winter versus A Victory Lost rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
H, Gua
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
Poll
If you could have only one of A Victory Lost or Red Winter: The Soviet Attack at Tolvajärvi, Finland – 8-12 December 1939, which would it be? If you are difficult and would choose something else, it should be of a similar complexity and playtime, and feel free to add a comment.
A Victory Lost
Red Winter
Neither, I choose... (add comment)
      92 answers
Poll created by Hamigua2000
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paul Sevigny
United States
Washington
D.C.
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: A simple survey.
If I never happened to find myself playing a game solely on WW2 in the East ever again I wouldn't complain.

Nothing wrong with it, I just find myself much more interested in 1) the rest of the world during that war, and 2) the rest of history.

5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Luka Kovač Plavi
Croatia
Našice
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: A simple survey.
Take into account that Red Winter is (i'd say much) more complex than A Victory Lost.

And I wouldn't mind if you named the thread red winter vs a victory lost or some such instead of this totally nodescript generic title it has now.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sam Carroll
United States
Urbana
Illinois
flag msg tools
Soli Deo Gloria!
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: A simple survey.
They're both excellent games. Red Winter probably a little more detailed, A Victory Lost a little more abstracted . . . and of course they're at different scales: RW high-level tactical (almost grand-tactical) and AVL straight-up operational. But really, you can't go wrong with either one!
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Lance McMillan
United States
Lakebay
Washington
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: A simple survey.
Unfamiliar with (and not interested in) Red Winter. AVL is okay but most of the time has too many "gamey" quirks for my preferences. I'd prefer something out of the Campaigns in Russia series.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rusty McFisticuffs
United States
Arcata
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
Re: A simple survey.
Love Red Winter, never played A Victory Lost, but did not care for A Victory Denied; traded it away. Note that RW has a bunch of scenarios of varying length, which makes it easier to get to the table (don't know about AVL, but AVD had only one).
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
michael dorazio
United States
tyngsboro
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: A simple survey.
Looking forward to AVL. Played 2 campaigns of RW and several of its scenarios. Excellent game, and I didn't find it complicated ... that's good news I guess if AVL is easier.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Spacegras
Canada
St. John's
NL
flag msg tools
Bring on the hordes, we have the sword that smote the Goblin of Gygaxnor.
badge
HooDoo Operator
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: A simple survey.
I've only played Red Winter, and based on it alone, I would definitely choose Red Winter. A bunch of scenarios, and some optional rules would extend it's life for me.
Solo's well and with a limited FtF time, it works well and sparked some good strategy conversations with my opponent.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tom Swider
United States
Harrisburg
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: A simple survey.
I would go with EastFront II. Scenarios take 4h (winter) to 8h (summer). Also buying a copy of Panzerkrieg ... another great game that fits in that same play time and complexity.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
H, Gua
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
Avtomatik wrote:
Take into account that Red Winter is (i'd say much) more complex than A Victory Lost.

And I wouldn't mind if you named the thread red winter vs a victory lost or some such instead of this totally nodescript generic title it has now.


A fair suggestion. Done.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Roger Hobden
Canada
Montreal
Quebec
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb

How about ...

Spoiler (click to reveal)


... ?
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joe Preiser
United States
Federal Way
Washington
flag msg tools
5537
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I've got 4 games about Finnish Battles with several more on my wishlist.
It's an interesting set of circumstances to read about. On the one hand, Finland was fighting an aggressor intent on expanding their territory, but that situation forced them to ally with the Reich.
A horrible application of 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend' principle.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Iain K
United States
Arvada
Colorado
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
I've played both and in the end sold RW and kept AVL (which I still play a couple times a year). I like the design for effect, the tension, and the elegance of AVL. The chit pull alone makes it a fantastic game.

RW wasn't too my tastes: replete with die roll modifiers and unable to decide if it was a traditional ZOC based wargame or a tactical level consim. In the end, RW just didn't have much replayability.

Different scales, different design philosophies ... to each their own.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Janik-Jones
Canada
Waterloo
Ontario
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
Combat Commander, Up Front, Fields of Fire, Cats were once worshipped as gods and they haven't forgotten this, The Raven King (game publisher) ... that's me!
badge
Slywester Janik, awarded the Krzyż Walecznych (Polish Cross of Valour), August 1944
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Red Winter, not even close for me. I think it's one of the best designs to come along in a while, a nicely polished gem ... it's too bad that the follow-on, Operation Dauntless, a battle and forces I'm FAR more interested in, added such cruft and bloat to the elegant system Mark designed for Red Winter. OpD I sold. RW is a huge keeper.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.