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High Frontier (3rd edition)» Forums » Rules

Subject: What's up with the Li Heatsink Fountain Radiator? rss

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David Griffin
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What does flip after first use mean? What is considered a "use?" I mean suppose you use it to cool a rocket. When does it flip? After you decide to use it to cool another card? When you get to the first destination? After you boost?
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Matt Watkins
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Anytime you use the radiator for cooling for a card or support in order to perform an operation or movement, you must turn the card to the light side after completing the operation or movement

- After your move is complete if using it to support a thruster
- After refueling or prospecting is complete if using it to support a robonaut
- After promotion if using it to promote a Bernal
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David Griffin
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Matt_W wrote:
Anytime you use the radiator for cooling for a card or support in order to perform an operation or movement, you must turn the card to the light side after completing the operation or movement

- After your move is complete if using it to support a thruster
- After refueling or prospecting is complete if using it to support a robonaut
- After promotion if using it to promote a Bernal


If this is true, then it's impossible to use for thrusters right? You would only get 1 move so you'd have to arrive somewhere in 1 move and then you would be stranded right? Why is this useful?
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Matt Watkins
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carbon_dragon wrote:
If this is true, then it's impossible to use for thrusters right? You would only get 1 move so you'd have to arrive somewhere in 1 move and then you would be stranded right? Why is this useful?


I can think of many cases where it might be useful, but for instance, you might construct a rocket with:

- Hall Effect thruster: requires 1 therm and an (e) generator
- In Core Thermionic (e) generator: requires 3 therms and an (n) or (bomb) reactor
- Penning Trap (bomb) reactor: requires 1 therm
- Explosive Gas Dynamic Laser robonaut: requires (bomb) reactor
- Basalt Fiber Spinning refinery: requires any reactor
- LI Heatsink Fountain: provides 5 therms heavy, 1 therm light
Total mass: 8 (heavy)
Total required therms to operate the thruster: 5
Total required therms to prospect and industrialize: 1

With three tanks of fuel and the ESA push ability (and/or Venus solar boost), this rocket has thrust and fuel to pass through 3 burns in a single move and land on a size 2 or 3 site. You complete the move, convert the radiator to the light side, then use the remaining therm to prospect and (if lucky) industrialize. Then you decommission the thruster and re-boost it (or ET produce it) for another mission.
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I feel that it has two killer applications

1. Prospecting with very light but hot robonauts. Of course you will probably want to use the same robonaut to industrialize, but industrialization no longer needs radiators.

2. GW or TW thrusters often require lots of therms, but can get you almost anywhere in 1 turn (as Matt_W pointed out).
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David Griffin
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rbelikov wrote:
I feel that it has two killer applications

1. Prospecting with very light but hot robonauts. Of course you will probably want to use the same robonaut to industrialize, but industrialization no longer needs radiators.

2. GW or TW thrusters often require lots of therms, but can get you almost anywhere in 1 turn (as Matt_W pointed out).


OK, but that would mean decommissioning the GW or TW thruster right? If it's a GW then you can presumably ET produce another one, though assembling your rocket from different spectral sources is going to be a pain (granted GW thrusters don't have that many supports). If you have to promote it too, then you have to go to your lab too. And all that so you can avoid using 2 radiators?
 
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David, you are approaching this game from a very theoretical point of view. I can reveal a lot of the secrets but they would only lead to more questions and deny you the pleasure of finding strategies out for yourself. There is really no substitute for just playing and trying things out in practice.

Edit: I do enjoy your questions and discussion though, and appreciate your interest in the game! I just may not always answer
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David Griffin
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rbelikov wrote:
David, you are approaching this game from a very theoretical point of view. I can reveal a lot of the secrets but they would only lead to more questions and deny you the pleasure of finding strategies out for yourself. There is really no substitute for just playing and trying things out in practice.


What are you trying to say, that you're using it to achieve the starship future by flying the starship somewhere and then decommissioning it so you don't have to worry about cooling?

Hey listen, I've played this game a lot but I'm not sure I want to play it steady for the next several years it would take to become an expert. Games to play you know ... games other people are willing to play!
 
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carbon_dragon wrote:

What are you trying to say, that you're using it to achieve the starship future by flying the starship somewhere and then decommissioning it so you don't have to worry about cooling?


That's part of it. You can also fly to a factory where you can produce radiators. Even the Li fountain itself. Or, fly to refuel and then use open cycle cooling.
 
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David Griffin
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rbelikov wrote:
carbon_dragon wrote:

What are you trying to say, that you're using it to achieve the starship future by flying the starship somewhere and then decommissioning it so you don't have to worry about cooling?


That's part of it. You can also fly to a factory where you can produce radiators. Even the Li fountain itself. Or, fly to refuel and then use open cycle cooling.


Ah, yes you could do that. You could, I suppose have a couple or few strategic factories of the right spectral type, or have a freighter follow you along. Even so I've been able to press a couple of radiator cards into service for not too much mass to cool the Valkyrie and it's X companion.

Again this is something I do to manage the complexity. Not being totally comfortable with the rules, one less problem to manage makes it easier to do the flying which is still valuable. I suspect that eventually it's a non issue for experienced players but not for me.

Thanks for the suggestion.
 
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Colin Booth
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carbon_dragon wrote:
OK, but that would mean decommissioning the GW or TW thruster right? If it's a GW then you can presumably ET produce another one, though assembling your rocket from different spectral sources is going to be a pain (granted GW thrusters don't have that many supports). If you have to promote it too, then you have to go to your lab too. And all that so you can avoid using 2 radiators?


No, as per O1, a card without its required supports is non-functional but does not have to be decommissioned. Assuming you industrialized an S-site with your GW Thruster, you could re-energize your Thermochemical Heatsink by decomissining and rebuilding it. Also, if you can schlep the additional mass, keeping them as emergency backup radiators is pretty good - their Rad Hard 6 makes them reasonably immune to anything other than missiles and massdrivers, and assuming you have the therms from other sources there is nothing that says you are forced to use the fountain.
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