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Subject: If Arkham 3rd Edition Came... rss

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Wolfie
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...what would you change?

Could the game be rebooted in such a way that used some of the new mechanics like Mysteries or 2-sided spells and artifacts? Would you want Conditions?? Could a pure card replacement be done or would all the boxes be reissued?

Not talking reality here, just interested in what people might like in a new version of Arkham.
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Fabian
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It would probably be called Eldritch Horror and be a bit different so as not to entirely replace the old title that's a flagship title at this point
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M.C.Crispy
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I see no point in doing such a thing. None at all. If there were to be a 3e then it should just be a consolidated game designed to attract new players with a better "starter set" than the original base game. But FFG won't do it that way because it doesn't suit their financial model of under-delivering on base game content. Complete non-starter unfortunately.
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Wolfie
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Zlarp wrote:
It would probably be called Eldritch Horror and be a bit different so as not to entirely replace the old title that's a flagship title at this point


It might be interesting to see a Lovecraft country expansion for EH, but I could also see a rule compatibility tweak to AH that brings things in sync with EH but keeps AH its own game and focus.
 
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Jack Francisco
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One of my favorite elements of EH is the modularity of the side boards. That was the killer for me in AH - every expansion you added had another board that you needed to use. If they switched to the EH model in AH, that alone would be an improvement. Getting rid of "camping" in the store and the gates going to random other worlds are also good improvements in EH.
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Wolfie
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mccrispy wrote:
I see no point in doing such a thing. None at all. If there were to be a 3e then it should just be a consolidated game designed to attract new players with a better "starter set" than the original base game. But FFG won't do it that way because it doesn't suit their financial model of under-delivering on base game content. Complete non-starter unfortunately.


Not even as a chance to streamline and fix things like rules bits, streamline and fix cards? I could see it as an opportunity to repackage quite a few things, even if it were to shore up what already exists.
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Wolfie
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senorcoo wrote:
One of my favorite elements of EH is the modularity of the side boards. That was the killer for me in AH - every expansion you added had another board that you needed to use. If they switched to the EH model in AH, that alone would be an improvement. Getting rid of "camping" in the store and the gates going to random other worlds are also good improvements in EH.


I like the side boards in Arkham, and combining all the cards from the expansions for unique, common and spells eliminates a lot of the camping problem.

What I like about EH are the 2-sided cards, the conditions and the mystery mechanics. What would be even more interesting is Campaign style play where you could move between the Arkham focus to the world focus of EH.
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Thanasis Patsios
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I expect FFG to give all their co-ops the "application treatment" in the future.
 
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Sergei Chavo
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In new edition of AH I want investigators/monsters stands that dont damages tokens and I want version of game with all miniatures included as Deluxe Edition.
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Des T.
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- campaign/storyline mode
- better blending of "no-map" expansions (like they did with ancient whispers)
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John Curtis
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NasosP wrote:
I expect FFG to give all their co-ops the "application treatment" in the future.


Would absolutely LOVE an app of this game! When we play face-to-face, I already use the app that replaces the encounter decks (keeps from having to put so many decks at the table). Would love to do a pass and play for the game!
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David Jones
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Zlarp wrote:
It would probably be called Eldritch Horror and be a bit different so as not to entirely replace the old title that's a flagship title at this point


IMHO, the problem with Eldritch Horror is that its not a streamlined version of AH like many people claim it is. Yes, they streamlined a lot of the AH mechanics, but then they added more layers to the game, so the things they've added in offset the gains of streamlining and you end up with an equally complex and long game. If there were an AH3E, I would like to see something that streamlines the gameplay, and then stop there without adding more bells and whistles to it. AH is a long game and my group often feels burned out after playing it. If the play time could be cut down by about 20% it might hit the table more often.
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Wolfpack48 wrote:
...what would you change?

I would want a compelling competitive mode.

As it stands it's one of 3 co-ops that is worth playing. The fact that it is a co-op is really its only draw back.
 
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Krawhitham B
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davypi wrote:
Zlarp wrote:
It would probably be called Eldritch Horror and be a bit different so as not to entirely replace the old title that's a flagship title at this point


IMHO, the problem with Eldritch Horror is that its not a streamlined version of AH like many people claim it is. Yes, they streamlined a lot of the AH mechanics, but then they added more layers to the game, so the things they've added in offset the gains of streamlining and you end up with an equally complex and long game. If there were an AH3E, I would like to see something that streamlines the gameplay, and then stop there without adding more bells and whistles to it. AH is a long game and my group often feels burned out after playing it. If the play time could be cut down by about 20% it might hit the table more often.


I have never played EH but have a similar problem with getting AH to the table due to the length.

I have found that Elder Sign plus Elder Sign: Gates of Arkham gives you a taste Arkham of chaos, despair and madness.

Overall I think that you need to accept AH and other FFG titles for what they are; thematic experiences. If you want a balanced strategic game then look elsewhere.
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Reggie P
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In my games, particularly my solo games, the one change I would like to see would be fixed skill values replacing the skill sliders. The cards could be reworked statistically to reflect this.

Of all the maintenance in the game, the one thing that requires the most maintenance and investment of time with the least return on investment is the skill sliders.

I don't know about across the board, but it would make my games a lot faster, especially now that I'm at the point where I'm keeping a journal of the different things that can happen to investigators at different locations as they come up.

In a four player solo game, that's a lot of extra time considering what to adjust for each character each turn.
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M.C.Crispy
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Wolfpack48 wrote:
mccrispy wrote:
I see no point in doing such a thing. None at all. If there were to be a 3e then it should just be a consolidated game designed to attract new players with a better "starter set" than the original base game. But FFG won't do it that way because it doesn't suit their financial model of under-delivering on base game content. Complete non-starter unfortunately.


Not even as a chance to streamline and fix things like rules bits, streamline and fix cards? I could see it as an opportunity to repackage quite a few things, even if it were to shore up what already exists.
You have to think Shareholder Value. What's the market for such a thing now that Eldritch exists and Arkham has been around for so long? Would a significant proportion of AH owners buy it, would a large number of people - who haven't already bought EH - be persuaded to buy it and how would it affect sales of AH. I'd be surprised if the numbers work for this one. It doesn't matter what we wish for, if the numbers don't add up it won't happen.
 
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Jack Francisco
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Well, it doesn't stop them from canning and rebooting the LCGs.
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M.C.Crispy
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senorcoo wrote:
Well, it doesn't stop them from canning and rebooting the LCGs.
Sure, but they've already "rebooted" AH with EH. And they are still selling enough AH that EH hasn't sufficiently cannibalised AH to warrant burying the product. But that doesn't mean there's value in a second reboot - just 'cos a few people say that they would like one.
 
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Marco Donghi
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Just the usual:
- No skill slider
- More use for stable locations and streets
- Less modifiers to be remembered (GOO effects, Environment, etc). If you want me to remember something, just give me some token to put on my sheet or on the board, to be removed when the effect ends.
- Learn something from EH on how you differentiate the feeling of each game based on the GOO.
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Wolfie
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The question was what you would like to see, not what's best for Fantasy Flight Games.
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Wolfie
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mccrispy wrote:
senorcoo wrote:
Well, it doesn't stop them from canning and rebooting the LCGs.
Sure, but they've already "rebooted" AH with EH. And they are still selling enough AH that EH hasn't sufficiently cannibalised AH to warrant burying the product. But that doesn't mean there's value in a second reboot - just 'cos a few people say that they would like one.


Not really. Arkham focus is The New England coast and small towns while Eldritch is globe spanning Indiana Jones. The NE focused play and feel is quite different, though mechanics and component wise I think AH could benefit in some places from EH.
 
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M.C.Crispy
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Wolfpack48 wrote:
mccrispy wrote:
senorcoo wrote:
Well, it doesn't stop them from canning and rebooting the LCGs.
Sure, but they've already "rebooted" AH with EH. And they are still selling enough AH that EH hasn't sufficiently cannibalised AH to warrant burying the product. But that doesn't mean there's value in a second reboot - just 'cos a few people say that they would like one.


Not really. Arkham focus is The New England coast and small towns while Eldritch is globe spanning Indiana Jones. The NE focused play and feel is quite different, though mechanics and component wise I think AH could benefit in some places from EH.
Yes, I'm aware of EH, I was onboard very early. Actually, the "Indiana Jones and the Temple of Lovecraft" aspect of EH is the bit that I least like (that, the way that it's now at least as complex as AH, somewhat more random in it's nature and has a load more "#@!$ you" moments that make the game less fun).

I don't want to see any of EH "backported" into AH, there's nothing in EH that I consider would make AH a better game and still Arkham Horror. I love the flexibility afforded by the Focus mechanism, I love Injury and Madness, Heralds, all the bits from Miskatonic, the multiple victory conditions and the variations in play style and even in Final Battle that AH has.

The one thing that I'd like to see is some more AO theme coming through. But I'd like to see it done by better use of Cultists and sub-sets of Monsters. Tibs has done a sterling job with his scenarios with much of what is available and I play these all the time with new players. It should be possible to reissue a sub-set of what is already out there and make up some scenarios and issue it as an "Arkham Horror Starter Set".
 
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M.C.Crispy
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Wolfpack48 wrote:
The question was what you would like to see, not what's best for Fantasy Flight Games.
True, but what do you expect to see on this instance of the "Arkham v.next" thread that's different from all the other discussions that we've been having ever since EH came out. I don't have Eldritch Envy and I'm tired of all the "fix AH by making it EH" suggestions. We need something that will differentiate AH 3e from EH and from AH 2e in a manner that is compelling for new players as well as the small proportion of existing players of 1e or 2e that would "repurchase". I have yet to see such a suggestion - though there's no harm in searching.
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Bishop
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Vittek wrote:
Just the usual:
- No skill slider
- More use for stable locations and streets
- Less modifiers to be remembered (GOO effects, Environment, etc). If you want me to remember something, just give me some token to put on my sheet or on the board, to be removed when the effect ends.
- Learn something from EH on how you differentiate the feeling of each game based on the GOO.


I personally actually quite like the skill slider. It forces decisions and is great thematically for each character being really good at some thing and useless at others.

Definitely agree with the stable locations and streets - they really need an a reason to be on the board.
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Wolfie
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mccrispy wrote:
Wolfpack48 wrote:
The question was what you would like to see, not what's best for Fantasy Flight Games.


We need something that will differentiate AH 3e from EH and from AH 2e in a manner that is compelling for new players as well as the small proportion of existing players of 1e or 2e that would "repurchase". I have yet to see such a suggestion - though there's no harm in searching.


Well, there's a suggestion right there! Revamped Arkham 3e that's uniquely Arkham and not EH -- that's a completely valid POV to take.

Even if Arkham were to adapt nothing from EH, you could still in a Gold Edition of Arkham...

- Consolidate, streamline and clarify the rules (working in FAQs)
- Add player aids to the game turn order
- Errata for all the cards
- Re-do Mythos cards so that they are more intuitive to read
- New boards, perhaps taking up less footprint on the table, working in some UI improvements that make things more intuitive
- Nice new tokens for monsters, investigators
- Possible streamlining of some rules that reduce overall game time a bit without changing the flavor of Arkham

That probably isn't enough for some folks, that's why I would think that something like:

- 2-Sided Spells would be nice borrow from EH
- Conditions that could be addressed within the normal flow of AH. I would NOT want to introduce the Omen mechanic at all to AH.
- Mysteries that could add additional narrative flavor to each Ancient One and possibly more narrative feel to the final battle that better fits the small town setting.
- "Campaign Mode" which is just about as much as I know about that right now.

Isn't this fun?
 
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