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Subject: Why this "average" ranking for KDM? rss

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Markus Häusler
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Rank:

Overall 150

Thematic 21

i wondered why KDM is not ranked better? is the hype not as big like for Gloomhaven (which i really really enjoy)?

or whats wrong with KDM?
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Robbie Lyons
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It's more niche, perhaps? The high price point and adult content probably keep away a lot of people. And even if they didn't, it's still tricky to even find a copy.

Perhaps it'll go up once the 1.5 Core Sets deliver and more people (like me!) get to play. Until then, I think 150 overall is not too bad for what is a huge, awkward niche game.
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Vince De Zutter
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People who haven't played it usually write it off because it has sexual content. They consider it juvenile because it has "penis monsters" or sexist because of the pin-ups.
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Markus
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sexual content ist a plus for me devil
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Gustav W
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KDM has extremely high average rating.

Mostly the low (relatively) rank comes down to the number of votes.

The standard deviation in ratings is also high and that probably affects rank negatively.
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danny kessel
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As stated above, the reasons should be clear... as well as that 150 isn't such a bad place to be for such a different game.
I myself haven't rated KD:M yet, as I also wait for my kickstarter pledge to arrive.
Seeing the success of the last kickstarter (1.5), I do believe KD:M will reach the top 100.

For indicative purposes:
The least rated game in the top 100 right now, has 3.681 ratings, with an average rating of 8.22

Seeing the average of KD, assume it will lower a bit because it reaches more views, but not much lower, lets say, it will have an average of 8.7, then it still needs about 2.4K Ratings in total (estimation) to reach the top 100.

Look at it this way... there isn't a game ranked higher then KD:M with less Ratings. So that's a good indication I guess
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Jon Day
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It's also got some divisive game mechanics, high randomness, rolling to hit and then to damage turns off many players.
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Thorsten Schröder
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I think we fantasy/SciFi/miniature/wargame/dungeoncrawler-gamers sometimes forget that there are a lot of other games out there, that only some of us look at.
A friend recently introduced me to someone 'She's into boardgames too'. We organised a gaming evening and discussed what games we wanted to play. I suggested Zombicide since there were people who never played anything newer that Risk (Zombicide for me has the right amount of complexity to fun).
She categorically was against it because of theme and style of game.

So I let her decide and we ended up playing "7 Wonders"... I did not see the fun in it. But I realized that boardgamers are not like boardgamers. A lot of gamers are into family friendly games or abstract games.

Which kind of gamer are we?
1) 'Oh look: a game that lets build trade-routes from India to Europe to sell spices'
2) 'Oh look: a game that lets you rip of Lion's balls to make Monster Grease. We can use that to smear it all over our bodies to make us more slippery'

The one type of gamer gives this game a high rating... the other either a low rating or none at all.
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Markus Häusler
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the high random part makes it funny or frustrating?

is there any way to reduce this frustration?
 
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danny kessel
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Cuthailion wrote:
I think we fantasy/SciFi/miniature/wargame/dungeoncrawler-gamers sometimes forget that there are a lot of other games out there, that only some of us look at.
A friend recently introduced me to someone 'She's into boardgames too'. We organised a gaming evening and discussed what games we wanted to play. I suggested Zombicide since there were people who never played anything newer that Risk (Zombicide for me has the right amount of complexity to fun).
She categorically was against it because of theme and style of game.

So I let her decide and we ended up playing "7 Wonders"... I did not see the fun in it. But I realized that boardgamers are not like boardgamers. A lot of gamers are into family friendly games or abstract games.

Which kind of gamer are we?
1) 'Oh look: a game that lets build trade-routes from India to Europe to sell spices'
2) 'Oh look: a game that lets you rip of Lion's balls to make Monster Grease. We can use that to smear it all over our bodies to make us more slippery'

The one type of gamer gives this game a high rating... the other either a low rating or none at all.


And then there are these:
3)'Oh look: A game with a neat mechanic/story/fresh take/interesting bits

Because that's mostly me. I like Eurogames and Ameritrash both.
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Thorsten Schröder
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Sorry you are right! I meant to add the possibility of gamers liking both kinds of games... but then I forgot
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Alessio Massuoli
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Kempest wrote:
the high random part makes it funny or frustrating?

is there any way to reduce this frustration?


It depends on your state of mind: at first, it will likely be frustrating because you will grow attached to specific survivors. After a while, you will learn that survivors are just another resource, and it will be all fun. Then again, you will try the harder stuff: you will fail hard because of tactical errors triggered by unlucky rolls or draws, and be frustrated again. Then, you will learn that survivors are a resource you must strategize to protect (best effort), and those unlucky draws are actually the monster being deadly and are supposed to be extremely hostile, and your state of mind will be to be extra grateful when you are lucky, not be frustrated when you assume you are being unlucky.
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Alessio Massuoli
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egg_citizen wrote:
Cuthailion wrote:
I think we fantasy/SciFi/miniature/wargame/dungeoncrawler-gamers sometimes forget that there are a lot of other games out there, that only some of us look at.
A friend recently introduced me to someone 'She's into boardgames too'. We organised a gaming evening and discussed what games we wanted to play. I suggested Zombicide since there were people who never played anything newer that Risk (Zombicide for me has the right amount of complexity to fun).
She categorically was against it because of theme and style of game.

So I let her decide and we ended up playing "7 Wonders"... I did not see the fun in it. But I realized that boardgamers are not like boardgamers. A lot of gamers are into family friendly games or abstract games.

Which kind of gamer are we?
1) 'Oh look: a game that lets build trade-routes from India to Europe to sell spices'
2) 'Oh look: a game that lets you rip of Lion's balls to make Monster Grease. We can use that to smear it all over our bodies to make us more slippery'

The one type of gamer gives this game a high rating... the other either a low rating or none at all.


And then there are these:
3)'Oh look: A game with a neat mechanic/story/fresh take/interesting bits

Because that's mostly me. I like Eurogames and Ameritrash both.


100% agree
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Martin Handrejk
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At First: Rank 150 is a very good Rank for a Board game, BGG Lists over 10k board games, and to be in the Top 200 is very nice.

2nd: KD-M has actually 2000 voters and the bgg rankingsystem is calculating rank in comparison to number of voters and some other indicators. Gloomhaven is having 4000 voters and a slightly better scoring, maybe KD-M will move the ledder up when the second Wave arrives at the homes of the players, but GH will have a second wave push too.

3rd: Which hype are higher and whats behind? Both games got a lot of hype, KDM is a awsome game and has a nice game mechanic and awsome Miniatures. A very often heared con is that it is repititive after a few plays and that you have to farm a lot if you wan´t a well equiped team. Gloomhavens miniatures and board are only mediocre, and like KDM you are fighting against a card based monster AI. But GH brings a very long and interesting campaigne and very complex charakters to the table. At the sum is the end game motivation in GH a lot higher and the hidden content makes the game a lot more interesting. In addition to this are there a lot more possibilities for the players in every fight in GH. You can choose your own set of abilities and may vary them after every Session.


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Lonny x
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Exo Desta wrote:
Haters gotta hate.

(And BGG is FULL of haters...)


Yup.
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BG.EXE
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I favor Euros, but I like pretty much all games.
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I just want to reiterate something. Top 150 is a great rank for an expensive, mature, niche game. BGG doesn't only track over 10K board games.

BGG tracks over 91000 board games.
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that Matt
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Rank carries even less meaning than rating.

And KDM's rating is outstanding.
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Michael Pflug
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Read the ratings section.
There are tons of board game sjws who gave this game a 1 although they never played it, because they are offended by it.
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t3clis wrote:
Kempest wrote:
the high random part makes it funny or frustrating?

is there any way to reduce this frustration?


It depends on your state of mind: at first, it will likely be frustrating because you will grow attached to specific survivors. After a while, you will learn that survivors are just another resource, and it will be all fun. Then again, you will try the harder stuff: you will fail hard because of tactical errors triggered by unlucky rolls or draws, and be frustrated again. Then, you will learn that survivors are a resource you must strategize to protect (best effort), and those unlucky draws are actually the monster being deadly and are supposed to be extremely hostile, and your state of mind will be to be extra grateful when you are lucky, not be frustrated when you assume you are being unlucky.

And then, in the end you learn how to make most of the randomness disappear.
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Stuart Holttum
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Frozen Flesh wrote:
Read the ratings section.
There are tons of board game sjws who gave this game a 1 although they never played it, because they are offended by it.


"Each user is encouraged to rate games based on their own opinion of the game. As such, different users may assign different meanings to the 1-10 scale. There is no official or set algorithm in place by which users are expected to follow."
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Repeat after me...


Ratings are worthless, apart from your own, for your own edification.
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Gustav W
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darthhugo wrote:
Repeat after me...


Ratings are worthless, apart from your own, for your own edification.

No they are not, they are in fact very useful.
But take them for what they are and accept that opinions differ.

All in all, as a very niche game, KD:M is not a very good game for most board gamers. I can say that for certain, even before playing. Most people in my regular groups would not play it if I proposed it. None of them will rate it though.
Yet I expect myself to rate it somewhere between 5 and 9 whenever I get to play it (solo).
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Markus Häusler
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thanks for your feedback. ok then 150 is a good (not best) score here

the repetetive stuff? this sounds entertaining

is it like gloomhaven where you could grind every scenario several times, only doing first room for xp and gold?
 
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Drake Coker
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Kempest wrote:
thanks for your feedback. ok then 150 is a good (not best) score here

the repetetive stuff? this sounds entertaining

is it like gloomhaven where you could grind every scenario several times, only doing first room for xp and gold?


The game structure is that each "year", you send a party out to hunt a monster of your choice. The hunt phase is full of random events and is pretty different year-to-year. The monster is generally one of your choosing, so you can mix it up or repeat the same kind of monster as you wish. There are only a few types of monsters, so repetition will occur. However, while each monster type has a specific style, each instance will be a little different as you pull their abilities ("AI") from a larger deck and so you are never quite sure what you are facing. Also, each monster type comes in 3 levels of difficulty.

Every few years, a special monster ("nemesis") comes to hunt you instead. These are generally higher difficulty.

Some players do prefer to "grind" on the easiest monster, which is pretty safe and functional, but not a great deal of fun IMO. That is their choice. Supposedly the next shipment of the game will have the ending re-tuned to make that a less viable strategy.

Regardless, a *ton* of stuff happens in a campaign (20-25 years currently) and its rare for any two campaigns to play out similarly.

BTW, if you don't know, the 150 ranking is actually high: BGG downranks games automatically until they get a large number of votes in order to counter the "early fans love it" phenomena. At 2000 votes, the algorithm is still pushing down pretty hard. The thematic rank is unweighted.

KD:M and Gloomhaven are very different games to play. For what it's worth, KD:M is my favorite game and Gloomhaven is my second favorite currently.
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Alessio Massuoli
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Also keep in mind that Adam announced early that the 1.5 version is intended to not be beatable by just grinding L1s.
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