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B-17 Flying Fortress Leader» Forums » Rules

Subject: Question about Bonus SO points on some targets rss

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Moe45673
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I like to thematically think that the two weekly missions are flown simultaneously. However, unsure how much the rules support this.

If Mission 1 destroys a target that gives bonus SO points, do the rules intend for Mission 2 to be allowed to use those points? Because according to my thematic narrative, they would not be allowed to.
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Dean Brown
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I have used SO points earned from mission 1 for mission 2. I would choose whichever approach makes sense to you.

I have struggled with the simultaneous mission concept. For simplicity purposes, I have the Luftwaffe Squadrons reset between missions, which wouldn't happen if done simultaneously. Running two missions simultaneously and resolving bandit attacks between them seemed like a fairly complex process, plus would require two mission group dispkays.

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Barry Miller
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Moe,

Keep in mind that the missions are being flown by different groups. So while the game doesn't model the assignment of groups to wings, and thusly each wing to a different airfield, it's reasonable to thematically assume that the missions are being flown from different airfields in the UK. Or, you could also assume that they're all out of the same airfield if you figure your role in the game is as a Wing Commander.

Either way, once this assumption is made, it's not a leap at all to conjecture that Mission #1 is flown perhaps on Tuesday, while Mission #2 is flown perhaps Friday of the same week.

To get back to that "Wing Commander" concept (and I'm taking the liberty to assume this is what Dean was getting at with his design), you would consider that YOU'RE the Wing Commander at pick-your-airfield, and that the groups you've purchased are what forms your Wing... you could easily send some groups out on one day of the week, and other groups out on another day of the week.

Of course, IRL, the Air Tasking Orders came from HHQ, so the choice of which days that missions are flown isn't yours, and also that Fighter Groups were typically assigned to their own Wings, but you see where I'm going with this. Regardless, it happened all the time that missions would be conducted on different days of the week, by different groups... either out of the same field, or out of many different fields.

So no need to get wrapped-up around the concept that they're simultaneous. A week does have seven days in it, after all!


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Richard A. Edwards
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bgm1961 wrote:
your role in the game is as a Wing Commander.

I think this is spot on.

It should be called B-17 Wing Leader
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Moe45673
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Thanks all! I get this idea of simultaneous missions from TAL but perhaps I am incorrect in using that as my immersive narrative as well.

Dean, when I say simultaneous, I mean thematically. Mechanically, I fly one mission and finish it, then fly the next. But in the AAR I write in my head, they're flown simultaneously.

Of course, even a flight across the map and back would probably take..... 10 hours? So no need to assume they're simultaneous.

Anyhow, thanks for the responses, they were great. I can use SOs obtained from mission 1 in mission 2 without my head screaming that its breaking my narrative
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Barry Miller
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Moe45673 wrote:
I get this idea of simultaneous missions from TAL...

Huh... it really is something to consider how each of us grasps and executes the same thing in totally different ways... when I play TAL, I've never considered the missions to be simultaneous. In TAL, for me, the first mission is my "morning" mission, and the second mission is my "afternoon" mission. As in real life, a wing or group would be launching missions through out the entire day.


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Moe45673
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bgm1961 wrote:

Moe45673 wrote:
I get this idea of simultaneous missions from TAL...

Huh... it really is something to consider how each of us grasps and executes the same thing in totally different ways... when I play TAL, I've never considered the missions to be simultaneous. In TAL, for me, the first mission is my "morning" mission, and the second mission is my "afternoon" mission. As in real life, a wing or group would be launching missions through out the entire day.




It also reflects my limited knowledge of military procedures. I assumed that TAL missions would take an entire day including determining battalions to attack and with which planes/pilots, arming said planes, etc. Thereby, flying two missions at once over the entire day would be an optimal use of resources in a time constraint.

Same with B-17s weekly missions.

I guess it never occurred to me that the missions would be flown in series, rather than parallel, but perhaps being the Wing Commander and overseeing two simultanous missions could be too much work for one flight command.

I guess one could further extrapolate that, in the game's storylines, a lot more is going on under the hood (more missions being flown, etc) but the ones we play are the final pushes, the cinematic glorious moments, highlights, etc, that hours, days, weeks, months of recon, paperwork, and other dull humdrum preparations have led to.
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Dean Brown
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There were days where multiple targets were attacked simultaneously, and other times when different targets were attacked in sequential days. I think the game is abstracted to the point that it doesn't matter for planning and execution purposes.
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Barry Miller
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Moe, yeah... the missions we fly in both TAL and B-17 are but very, very small slivers of what's being flown on any given day by the same Air Force, or Wing.

Consider that during operations Desert Storm, Enduring Freedom, and Iraqi Freedom... coalition Air Forces flew 1,500 - 2,000 sorties every day. Now those are sortie numbers, (a sortie is one plane flying its mission profile from departure to return) and each mission consists of a number of sorties. Depending on the distance to the target, each individual fighter could fly up to three sorties per day, perhaps 5 days per week. Each Bomber aircraft would fly only one or two sorties per day, about 3-4 days per week.

Also keep in mind that during those operations, sorties were being planned, launched, and executed 24 hours per day... but usually at night until air superiority over enemy territory was ensured. Regardless, OPs tempo at a Coalition airbase was at 100%, 24 hours per day, seven days a week, at most airbases during those ops.

Now, getting back to B-17 missions, yeah... daylight bombing was the thing for the 8th (while the night bombing was left to the RAF). So given the duration of the typical mission, take-off was usually around 0700 ... give or take ... which means that all pre-mission planning by the crew was done the day prior. And staff-level planners worked any last minute adjustments, and loaders loaded the bombs, during the night. They waited till the last minute to load the bombs incase of any changes to the weapons requirement due to last minute targeting, route, or weather changes.

And this routine would be carried out by many Groups (hundreds of bomber crews) all across the UK on mission days. Also, while any given bomber group may fly only one to a few missions per week, it was entirely possible for the entire 8th USAAF to be flying missions every day of the week - from somewhere. A lot depended on the weather.
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