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Subject: Variable scoring from game-to-game rss

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Darryl with one "R"
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I've determined that I tend to enjoy games where the way that players score points changes from game-to-game. Examples:

Kingdom Builder
Isle of Skye: From Chieftain to King
The Palaces of Carrara

In each of these, there's a large component of scoring that differs from game-to-game depending on the specific goals that are drawn before the start of the game. The component is large enough, in fact, that your strategy will probably have to differ substantially each time you play the game.

I'm looking for other games which have this feature. Any suggestions?
 
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Dániel Lányi
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I couldn't find Terra Mystica in your collection. Each round has a different scoring and the expansion even adds variable endgame scoring to the game. The tricky thing about round scoring is that you really have to time the action that gives you points and most of the time it's a dilemma whether to build buildings that score points or build up your engine. Also you climb up on cult tracks during the game, but while each track is a simple majority scoring, the round scoring tiles add some bonuses to the tracks so that's another variable part of the game. Not to mention how each faction changes how you play but that's not really scoring, except some faction give you new ways to score.
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Richard Irving
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If you play wargames, Combat Commander: Europe has one of the cleverest variable scoring systems around.

VP are earned for casualties and exiting off teh far side of the board ar a flat rate, plus value for objectives on the map.

Each map has five Objective spaces at key points on the map. In most scenarios, chits are drawn (or sometimes directly placed) and can be left face upso both players know the value of the chit or down so the opponent does not know the its value, which determine value of certain objectives:
- Some counters set the value of a specific objective (which can have be any value from 1 - N (The number of the objective). This way know some objective are more likely to be valuable than others.
- Some counters set the value of ALL objectives. It is possible every objective has value. (If multiple objective shits are drawn that award points to the same objective--all of the chits apply.
- Some chits (which are printed on both sides, so they cannot be left a secret) have special VP: Doubling Casualty/Exit VPS, a special 10 VP award for objective 5, controlling all objectives at the end of a deck awards immediate victory.

There are some event cards which add objective chits (open or hidden) or reveal hidden objectives during play.

This means each scenario changes dramatically based on the objectives in play: If Location 5 = 10 VP is in play. both players have to fight for that location to the exclusion of all else. If Double Casualty VP is in play, player will try to kill vulnerable units, etc.
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Darryl with one "R"
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Thanks for the suggestions.

Regarding Terra Mystica: I've been interested in it for a while, and I'm quite confident I'd like it if I played it. However, 95% of my gaming is with 2 players, and I've read it's not great with 2. But I'm looking forward to Gaia Project later this year, which will hopefully work better with 2.

Regarding Combat Commander: Europe: I've never played a wargame. But I will research this strictly based on your suggestion!
 
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Shane Larsen
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Grand Austria Hotel does this in multiple ways. There are variable scoring objectives that all players are racing for. And the emperor track rewards and punishes according to variable game-play conditions three times during the game (during scoring rounds). The end-game objectives and scoring/punishing Emperor tiles are all randomly selected at the beginning of the game.

Roll for the Galaxy w/ Ambition - The base game alone doesn't have it. But Ambition introduces scoring objectives that all players are aiming at. It's first-come, first-serve.

Troyes - At the start of the game, everyone is secretly dealt a character card, which tells each player one of the end-game scoring conditions. This is a really cool mechanism, because in order to know what else to aim for (beyond what you hold in your hand), you have to read what the other players are doing. As you get better, you learn ways to disguise your scoring objective, while still putting yourself into a position to score well in the final rounds. Additionally, the game's actions themselves work on this same concept. You select three different cards of three different action types, and in three different levels within each type--further, there are three cards of each type and level in the deck. You only use one a game. So the variety of game play from game to game is exponentially huge. This game is so good.

ZhanGuo is a medium-heavy, tableau-building, card game with a map. Your efforts go towards building three different types of structures on the map. At the beginning of the game, you place 10 different tiles on the board, which determine the combos of what all players are aiming at building, and where. It's an amazing game, and would work perfectly for your request.

The Staufer Dynasty - This is a clever, medium-weight Euro that has a really smart variable scoring mechanism built into the round structure. There are different tiles that are randomly laid out to determine what gets scored when in every round of the game. The only scoring criteria that's the same from game to game, is the final round.

Lorenzo il Magnifico - Relatively new, LiM has a mechanism where at the end of rounds 2, 4, and 6 (final round), you take a look to see if you've pleased the church. The requests of the church are determined at the start of each round by randomly choosing from several tiles dedicated to the specific rounds (2, 4, 6). In those rounds, you either have the opportunity to score points, or you face a rest-of-game crippling consequence. It can be brutal, but it adds great tension. Not to mention, as you play, you're adding cards to your tableau that can change the way you score points at the end of the game.

These are some of my favorites that have what you're asking for. I hope this helps. Good luck and have fun!
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Dániel Lányi
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nbread wrote:
Thanks for the suggestions.

Regarding Terra Mystica: I've been interested in it for a while, and I'm quite confident I'd like it if I played it. However, 95% of my gaming is with 2 players, and I've read it's not great with 2. But I'm looking forward to Gaia Project later this year, which will hopefully work better with 2.


There are two player variants around on bgg. About half my live TM plays are two player and I love it. I was also a playtester on Gaia Project and their two player rules do the same things that the unofficial TM variants do. Smaller map, different majority scorings. I didn't like Gaia Project as much as TM because there was less emphasis on round scoring, but there is more emphasis on endgame-scoring so you might like it more because of that.
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Dániel Lányi
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thedacker wrote:


+1 +1

Zhanguo is one of the most underrated eurogames. It should be BGG top 50 easily.
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Brent Gerig
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In Nefarious, the scoring doesn't necessarily change from game-to-game, but each game has two randomly selected twists which change the core rules of the game. Which twists are out can drastically affect the strategy for that game. It's a pretty light, fun filler game. A little different than what you're asking about, but might still be interesting for you (and hey, you like Kingdom Builder and Dominion, so why not another Donald X. game?).
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No One
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Code of Nine

The whole premise of the game is you're using worker placement to find out what the scoring conditions are while simultaneously trying to satisfy them.

~V
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Julien
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Nyet!
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Jacob Schoberg
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Lords of Xidit has a very interesting scoring system revolving around three different things.
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Darryl with one "R"
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Thanks to everyone who's provided suggestions. I appreciate it.

Commenting on a few of them:

Troyes and Grand Austria Hotel are 2 of my favorite games -- I rate them 9 and 8.75, respectively. I don't rate The Staufer Dynasty quite as highly, but I do enjoy it and it's in no danger of leaving my collection.

I own the base game Roll for the Galaxy, but not Ambition. However, the goals in there looked somewhat similar to those in Race for the Galaxy: The Gathering Storm, which I do own. In Race, at least, I find that while I like the goals quite a bit, they don't always affect my strategy during the game. In fact, sometimes I ignore them altogether. I figured that might be the case with Roll for the Galaxy: Ambition as well, although perhaps I'm wrong. But if that's the case, then I'm not sure it's a good fit for what I'm after here. I'm hoping to find games where the impact of the scoring goals/rules change so much from game-to-game that players can't ignore them to have any hope of winning.

Lorenzo il Magnifico is on my wishlist -- I'm quite confident I'll enjoy it.

The other games -- including the 2-player variants for Terra Mystica -- I'll research further. And Dániel: thanks for the additional info on Gaia Project.
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Derry Salewski
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Darryl with one "R"
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scifiantihero wrote:

Hey, you just named my favorite game!
 
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Brent Gerig
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nbread wrote:
I own the base game Roll for the Galaxy, but not Ambition. However, the goals in there looked somewhat similar to those in Race for the Galaxy: The Gathering Storm, which I do own. In Race, at least, I find that while I like the goals quite a bit, they don't always affect my strategy during the game. In fact, sometimes I ignore them altogether. I figured that might be the case with Roll for the Galaxy: Ambition as well, although perhaps I'm wrong. But if that's the case, then I'm not sure it's a good fit for what I'm after here. I'm hoping to find games where the impact of the scoring goals/rules change so much from game-to-game that players can't ignore them to have any hope of winning.


As someone who owns (and plays) both, you're completely right. They may cause you to slightly tweak strategy to incorporate them, but in my experience they don't really inform your strategy. Sometimes they help, but other times they're completely ignorable. Don't get me wrong -- I like the expansion, but it's not what you're looking for here.
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