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Subject: Hunt Whip + Tristan (All for One) rss

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Jared McGraw

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Hunt Whip states With one or more Gremlin results : you suffer 1 HP

All for One : If heroes control your area, each Gremlin result rolled by heroes may be changed to one of the following results : Lightning bolt, shield, damage.

Does All for One negate the Hunt whip status of suffering 1 HP with a Gremlin roll?
 
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Kevin John
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You can choose the order to apply effects, so yeah you can negate the HP loss.
 
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David desJardins
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I don't think there's a choice here. The effect triggers if you have Gremlin results after rerolling. You can't decide to trigger the effect before rerolling and then claim that the Gremlin result on the reroll doesn't affect you.
 
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Kevin John
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DaviddesJ wrote:
I don't think there's a choice here. The effect triggers if you have Gremlin results after rerolling. You can't decide to trigger the effect before rerolling and then claim that the Gremlin result on the reroll doesn't affect you.


There is no reroll. You change the gremlin face to a lightning bolt, shield or damage.
 
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David desJardins
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kevinjohn3d wrote:
There is no reroll. You change the gremlin face to a lightning bolt, shield or damage.


OK, but the same thing applies. You don't get to choose whether to check before or after you change the dice result. In this case, there's no reason you would choose to take damage, probably, but the principle is the same.
 
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Kevin John
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DaviddesJ wrote:
kevinjohn3d wrote:
There is no reroll. You change the gremlin face to a lightning bolt, shield or damage.


OK, but the same thing applies. You don't get to choose whether to check before or after you change the dice result. In this case, there's no reason you would choose to take damage, probably, but the principle is the same.


Are you also saying you take damage if you roll a gremlin, then reroll it and the reroll is not a gremlin?
 
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David desJardins
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kevinjohn3d wrote:
Are you also saying you take damage if you roll a gremlin, then reroll it and the reroll is not a gremlin?


No.
 
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Rezard Vareth
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DaviddesJ wrote:
I don't think there's a choice here. The effect triggers if you have Gremlin results after rerolling. You can't decide to trigger the effect before rerolling and then claim that the Gremlin result on the reroll doesn't affect you.
It's not exactly clear what you are saying here. But if you are saying that you can't spend a die result and then reroll the die roll you spent, this is incorrect.

See Simone's reasoning here: https://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1800448/rerolling-light.... You can't keep a shield (or hit) that you later reroll, but that's only because the reroll happens before shields/hits are evaluated. This reasoning does not apply to bolts, magic symbols, S&S or gremlin results.

Simone could come up with different reasoning to support what I think is your position, but it seems like he would have just said that in the first place (if you reroll, you lose the result), because that is the simpler rule to enumerate.
 
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Kevin John
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DaviddesJ wrote:
kevinjohn3d wrote:
Are you also saying you take damage if you roll a gremlin, then reroll it and the reroll is not a gremlin?


No.


It's the same thing!

Scenario 1: You roll a gremlin, activate an effect to reroll it. Result is not a gremlin, no damage taken.

Scenario 2: You roll a gremlin, activate the effect to change it to LB, shield, or damage. Result is not a gremlin, no damage taken.
 
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Rezard Vareth
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kevinjohn3d wrote:
DaviddesJ wrote:
kevinjohn3d wrote:
Are you also saying you take damage if you roll a gremlin, then reroll it and the reroll is not a gremlin?


No.


It's the same thing!

Scenario 1: You roll a gremlin, activate an effect to reroll it. Result is not a gremlin, no damage taken.

Scenario 2: You roll a gremlin, activate the effect to change it to LB, shield, or damage. Result is not a gremlin, no damage taken.
We all agree that you don't have to suffer the damage. He's just saying you don't have a choice to suffer the HP, while you said in your initial post that you can choose to avoid the HP loss.

I'm in your boat on this one, FWIW.
 
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David desJardins
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RezardVareth wrote:
It's not exactly clear what you are saying here.


Really? I thought I was extra clear, but maybe not.

Can you roll a gremlin, and choose to take a hit from the Hunt Whip, *then* change the gremlin result into something else using All For One?
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Kevin John
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DaviddesJ wrote:
RezardVareth wrote:
It's not exactly clear what you are saying here.


Really? I thought I was extra clear, but maybe not.

Can you roll a gremlin, and choose to take a hit from the Hunt Whip, *then* change the gremlin result into something else using All For One?


Show me in the rules where it says you can't.
 
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David desJardins
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kevinjohn3d wrote:
Show me in the rules where it says you can't.


It's on the same line where it says that you can, coincidentally.

Anyway, I don't want to argue with you about whether you can or not. I am just answering the question of people not understanding what I was saying.
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Kevin John
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I get what you're saying, but you and I both know that after that *ahem* interesting ruling in the critical timing question that the timing of the combat is played a little loose. As Rezard also pointed out in the thread he mentioned, Simone ruled that you can activate an effect on a die and then change the face of that die (by rerolling in that example), which is another ruling that kind of baffled me TBH.

Based off that, I see no problem with someone 'activating' the effect that you lose HP off a gremlin roll and then activating the effect that says you can change the die face. It's ludicrous and I don't know why anyone would do it, but the precedent is there.

I can see an argument that the HP loss isn't an effect to be activated but a mandatory effect, but since you still get to choose when effects are applied you could still choose to take the HP loss and then change the face.

If you don't want to keep discussing it, I understand. But I'm at my in-laws house for a party and am going out of mind with boredom...
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Rezard Vareth
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DaviddesJ wrote:
RezardVareth wrote:
It's not exactly clear what you are saying here.


Really? I thought I was extra clear, but maybe not.

Can you roll a gremlin, and choose to take a hit from the Hunt Whip, *then* change the gremlin result into something else using All For One?
I believe that you can, based on the implications of the "you can reroll an activated symbol" ruling plus the "you can choose the order of activations" ruling.

It's all academic - the only time it matters is the corner case where you have 1 HP left and you want to put more damage on the board while denying the enemy the extra power it gets from killing you. But honestly, at that point, you're probably better off tanking the overflow damage.
 
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