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Subject: Just finish my first two games, and I am slightly confused. rss

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Panu Trivej
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There is a lot here to like, but it's very different from many worker placements we've played before.

Since victory points come from building, all we do is just that. We hardly ever visit built locations except for the first time, using the Prior. Near the end, each of us has about ten buildings, but it's more efficient to visit the basic locations to get building materials and build even more.

Some of us try converting basic materials into resources with victory points. It works to some degree. He churns out a few wonders. Still building seems to be more expedient.

Neither do we see that many reasons to do the work contract and use other people's buildings.

We play the short game and end up around 150-200 points.

Is this how the game's supposed to be? I can totally get behind that, but it seems slightly...wasteful. That you build a lot of locations for the sake of using it just once.
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Loren Cadelinia
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van jupiter wrote:
There is a lot here to like, but it's very different from many worker placements we've played before.

Since victory points come from building, all we do is just that. We hardly ever visit built locations except for the first time, using the Prior. Near the end, each of us has about ten buildings, but it's more efficient to visit the basic locations to get building materials and build even more.

Some of us try converting basic materials into resources with victory points. It works to some degree. He churns out a few wonders. Still building seems to be more expedient.

Neither do we see that many reasons to do the work contract and use other people's buildings.

We play the short game and end up around 150-200 points.

Is this how the game's supposed to be? I can totally get behind that, but it seems slightly...wasteful. That you build a lot of locations for the sake of using it just once.


You want to use a work contract for more efficient conversions, also for something you may not have access to while your opponent does (ie stone early).

Regarding building a lot of locations for the sake of using it just once, doesn't sound right. Depending on your strategy you will want to hammer on the buildings that your engine can turn into most points.

Plus, placing buildings has huge implicataions to dwelling scores. So strategic acquiring of buildings for your engine, while racing to accumulate great dwelling placement is the heart of the game.
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Chris Ferejohn
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I can't tell what, but I strongly suspect you are doing something wrong. How are you getting food in enough volume for the big point dwellings? How are you getting stone at all?
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Panu Trivej
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dyepbr wrote:
Regarding building a lot of locations for the sake of using it just once, doesn't sound right. Depending on your strategy you will want to hammer on the buildings that your engine can turn into most points.

Plus, placing buildings has huge implicataions to dwelling scores. So strategic acquiring of buildings for your engine, while racing to accumulate great dwelling placement is the heart of the game.


Thank you. We will try this.

cferejohn wrote:
I can't tell what, but I strongly suspect you are doing something wrong. How are you getting food in enough volume for the big point dwellings? How are you getting stone at all?


So far we've played only the short game, and stones are provided for in some rounds. (if I understand the rule correctly, that is.) There are also a few buildings that give us stone. Food is taken care of either with a lot of sheep or converting sheep to meat. Neither of us successfully build the dwelling that cost 30 food though.
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Panu Trivej
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Try the normal game this morning, and it's oh so so much better.

In the short game, you only have 12 actions (not including the extra Prior action), and that's hardly enough for a long term planning and resource conversion. Only option seems to be building like crazy.

With a normal game, now it all makes sense to use and reuse the buildings that churn out higher value goods.

Also with three workers -- as opposed to two in the short game -- it's now harder to "free" your workers and always use your own buildings. You indeed have to save some money/alcohol for work contract; otherwise your action just goes to waste.

My admiration for the game goes up.
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Loren Cadelinia
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van jupiter wrote:

Also with three workers -- as opposed to two in the short game -- it's now harder to "free" your workers and always use your own buildings. You indeed have to save some money/alcohol for work contract; otherwise your action just goes to waste.


It's been awhile since I've played the short game, but I don't remember only having 2 workers.

Edit: checked the rules and yes, only use 2 workers.
 
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Loren Cadelinia
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van jupiter wrote:

In the short game, you only have 12 actions (not including the extra Prior action), and that's hardly enough for a long term planning and resource conversion. Only option seems to be building like crazy.


I do think the starting player should still get one extra turn each round.
 
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Loren Cadelinia
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van jupiter wrote:

In the short game, you only have 12 actions (not including the extra Prior action), and that's hardly enough for a long term planning and resource conversion. Only option seems to be building like crazy.


Besides the prior action when you build a building, don't forget there is a bonus round at the end of 3-4 player game.

Also, the each settlement phase is an opportunity for "2 more" actions, building a settlement and buying a landscape.

Lastly, don't forget the free actions (particularly buying landscape).


So theres a lot more decisions than just 12.
- Start player gets extra action
- prior action when building
- bonus round
- settle phase
- free actions
 
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Jared
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It takes a while for stone/grapes to come out. I think one full rotation. They aren't even on the wheel in the beginning.
 
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Grant
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van jupiter wrote:
In the short game, you only have 12 actions (not including the extra Prior action)


The short game is 12 ROUNDS. You are playing where the start player each round gets two actions, right? So in a four player game you actually get 15 actions, plus the final action. And in three player you get 16 actions, plus the final action.
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