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B-17 Flying Fortress Leader» Forums » Rules

Subject: Numbers behind the losses rss

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John Lee
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Jut picked this up at my local brick and mortar store to support them. There is obviously a lot of thought and research that went into this game. Got through he rules; got it on the table and am happy to be in set up mode now. A couple of questions;

1) 16 step losses for every US group = that group is KO?
2) How many individual aircraft does each hit point on a US squadron represent?
3) What is the approximate number of individual aircraft that each LW attacker represents?

THANKS in advance. I'm sure I will have more as I go through.

BISHOP
 
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Mike Adams
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1st. Download the revised rulebook found on this website.
its laid out much better than the one in the box.
The designer redid it after the game was released.

#1
Yes after 16 point losses group is KO

#2
Each point is 3 aircraft
Each Group is 48 aircraft.

#3
This hasn't been mentioned but based on game mechanics Im thinking each Bandit counter is a squadron.
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Barry Miller
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1) Dean (the designer) describes the numbers behind the size of the groups on page 7 (right column) of the revised rulebook (digital download). He also explains that 1 strength = 3 aircraft, on page 8.

Strength Points and Losses/Destroyed Points are synonymous. I.e., given that a full strength group = 16 strength points (48 aircraft), a group with 6 losses (aka 6 destroyed points) would now have a strength = 10, which means the group has lost 18 aircraft. I've sometimes had target Flak cause 3 pts of damage to a group, and I have to stop and think that that's nine bombers (90 crew) that just went down!

Unfortunately, the printed rulebook that comes with the game is written in typical DVG style, so almost none of the above detail is covered in that rulebook. Sad to say, but if I were you, I'd throw out the original rulebook and use the revised downloadable version found here in the files library. I had mine printed and coil bound with a clear plastic cover. Dean did a superb job with the revised rulebook! It has much more detail than the original, and has structure!

And also, on a side note, there were typically three squadrons to a bomber group, and three groups to a wing.

2) And about the number of aircraft that each bandit counter represents, I agree with John above, that each represents a squadron ("Staffel" in German), which could be 9-12 aircraft. The enemy counters that are placed on the map - which represent where the enemy squadrons come from - are even labeled, "Luftwaffe Squadron" and are referred to as such in the rulebook. Keep in mind that only one bandit counter ever originates from any given "Luftwaffe Squadron", so it's reasonable to conclude that each bandit counter represents a squadron.

However, given the way that "Luftwaffe Squadrons" are handled in the game, and the amount of damage a single bandit counter can do, perhaps (just perhaps), that each bandit counter actually represents a Luftwaffe "Gruppe", about 30-40 aircraft. But then again, with the right AtA modifiers it can also be just as easy to destroy a bandit. So perhaps they do simply represent a Staffel of 9-12 fighters. Dean might be able to share his insight on this question!


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Dean Brown
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Each bandit represents a Luftwaffe squadron, so 9-12 aircraft.
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