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Subject: Questions about Anvil rss

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christian plekavic
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Hello. I have two question about Anvil. His special ability is that when he acquires a coin during a kill he may place it on a non-magic attack card to anyone in his guild and give it "these cards roll +1 die".
1) if he places a coin on a card like the parying blade, it will go from 2 attack dice to 3, but will the benefit of "+1 defense die" increase to +2 defense dice? I assume it only gives a bonus when rolling for attack, but the wording could be interpreted more broadly.
2) during the upgrade phase, do all the coins placed on weapons return to the spending pool. I read only one reference post to this and it seams as though people (2-3 replied) believe that the coins used to enhance weapons can be used during the upgrade phase. If not, then shouldn't the coins placed on weapons count as permanent upgrades? Anvil's card limits to only one coin enhancement per weapon.

Thanks for any feedback.
 
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Thaddeus MacTaggart
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lbandcp wrote:
Hello. I have two question about Anvil. His special ability is that when he acquires a coin during a kill he may place it on a non-magic attack card to anyone in his guild and give it "these cards roll +1 die".
1) if he places a coin on a card like the parying blade, it will go from 2 attack dice to 3, but will the benefit of "+1 defense die" increase to +2 defense dice? I assume it only gives a bonus when rolling for attack, but the wording could be interpreted more broadly.
2) during the upgrade phase, do all the coins placed on weapons return to the spending pool. I read only one reference post to this and it seams as though people (2-3 replied) believe that the coins used to enhance weapons can be used during the upgrade phase. If not, then shouldn't the coins placed on weapons count as permanent upgrades? Anvil's card limits to only one coin enhancement per weapon.

Thanks for any feedback.

1. In my opinion, every roll that belongs to the Upgrade will get +1 dice. If an upgrade card has more abilities, all will get +1 dice.
2. No idea. One could argue that Anvil uses that gold to buy a weapon upgrade at the blacksmith?! Or he is a Blacksmith that buys upgrade materials for that gold?
 
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Tomer Mlynarsky
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1) I would say it adds to defense as well.

2) I would say yes, he still uses the coins since it only says where those coins are placed. Not that they are no longer coins and there is nothing that says where your coins should go normally.

Basically he only uses coins because he can't use his guild markers (that's how you mark exaustion)

Also note, that if he kills an enemy worth several coins, he can spread it around on several items.
 
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Angelus Seniores
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I believe you need to choose to use it to better a weapon or use it for buying upgrades later on but not both.
Coins are normally put in the guild's stash
 
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Tomer Mlynarsky
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Angelsenior wrote:
I believe you need to choose to use it to better a weapon or use it for buying upgrades later on but not both.
Coins are normally put in the guild's stash


No such thing as a guild's stash.
The game only says that the guild takes the coins, doesn't say where you put them.

The word "stash" doesn't even appear anywhere in the manual and I've searched all the places that have the word "coin" and nothing is mentioned that is even remotely close.







Not only do the rules say nothing about the coin not counting as coins, it doesn't even make sense that his ability work like that as it would be changed from a decent ability to a crappy one.

In the first missions, you won't have enough gold to buy stuff and then subsequent missions you will be able to kill less.
 
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Scott Kahler
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lbandcp wrote:
Hello. I have two question about Anvil. His special ability is that when he acquires a coin during a kill he may place it on a non-magic attack card to anyone in his guild and give it "these cards roll +1 die".
1) if he places a coin on a card like the parying blade, it will go from 2 attack dice to 3, but will the benefit of "+1 defense die" increase to +2 defense dice? I assume it only gives a bonus when rolling for attack, but the wording could be interpreted more broadly.
2) during the upgrade phase, do all the coins placed on weapons return to the spending pool. I read only one reference post to this and it seams as though people (2-3 replied) believe that the coins used to enhance weapons can be used during the upgrade phase. If not, then shouldn't the coins placed on weapons count as permanent upgrades? Anvil's card limits to only one coin enhancement per weapon.

Thanks for any feedback.


1) I disagree with the addition to defense. The ability is made to be played on non-magic attack cards, giving that card the ability of rolling one more die. When you defend you are using your heroes base defense and then weapons or armour can add modifiers, but they are not the base card generating the roll.

2) I think they would return to the spending pool
 
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Tomer Mlynarsky
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boogabee wrote:

1) I disagree with the addition to defense. The ability is made to be played on non-magic attack cards, giving that card the ability of rolling one more die. When you defend you are using your heroes base defense and then weapons or armour can add modifiers, but they are not the base card generating the roll.

What difference does it make what the "base" roll is?

This is what the rulebook says:
Quote:

Cards with this Extra Defense icon grant the Hero
who owns them the number of extra Defense dice
listed. Whenever the Hero needs to make a Defense
roll, add together his basic Defense and all Extra
Defense his cards might grant him
.

So if I'm attacked, I add a sword's defense as usual. Anvil's ability says that sword throws one more die and since it doesn't limit itself to attack dice, it works on defense as well. Just like with Benjamin's ability.

 
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Angelus Seniores
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GrandMasterFox wrote:
Angelsenior wrote:
I believe you need to choose to use it to better a weapon or use it for buying upgrades later on but not both.
Coins are normally put in the guild's stash


No such thing as a guild's stash.
The game only says that the guild takes the coins, doesn't say where you put them.

The word "stash" doesn't even appear anywhere in the manual and I've searched all the places that have the word "coin" and nothing is mentioned that is even remotely close.








Not only do the rules say nothing about the coin not counting as coins, it doesn't even make sense that his ability work like that as it would be changed from a decent ability to a crappy one.

In the first missions, you won't have enough gold to buy stuff and then subsequent missions you will be able to kill less.


Given you can improve a weapon significantly for just 1 gold coin is more valuable than you think and easily counts as a level up for that weapon, besides gaining gold is quite easy depending the players you play against ie if they kill each other often then there is no limit to the amount of gold you can obtain. So paying 1 coin for this is definitely not crappy. It can even allow you to buy different weapons instead of the higher level version of it during the upgrade step thus increasing your choices.
Certainly since only you have access to the +1 die, not your opponents so you get an edge over them
 
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Tomer Mlynarsky
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Angelsenior wrote:

Given you can improve a weapon significantly for just 1 gold coin is more valuable than you think

Is it valuable? Yes.
We have tons of heroes who have that ability as well. It's hardly a broken thing. Yes, he can add a die to a weapon belonging to someone else, he also has to make a kill for it. That's the internal balance vs another character like Scarlet for instance, who can get that +1 almost constantly.

Angelsenior wrote:

besides gaining gold is quite easy depending the players you play against ie if they kill each other often then there is no limit to the amount of gold you can obtain.

That's highly dependable on what other people are doing. I've had a game recently where I managed to finish 3 quests while other people barely had 2 gold.

Second, that's besides the point. The point is, if you assume the coin is not used for purchase, then essentially you will have less gold in the end of it, therefore, you have less gold to purchase, therefore you buy less equipment and have a harder time to kill later on.

Again, compare it to characters that give you +die to attacks, and you will always rank Anvil below all of them if you finish with less gold.

This becomes even more of an issue if you're playing with pet, cause that 6 gold for upgrade is a big deal.


Angelsenior wrote:

So paying 1 coin for this is definitely not crappy.

Except it's not just 1 coin. We're talking about 6-10 coins probably as time goes buy. That's a huge margin that you have to pay every single mission.

No one in their right mind would pick him over heroes that give you +die on an easier to get basis like Scarlet, Lucas, Raven, Grom, Chaz, Sonja, Haldor etc

That's what makes him crappy when you compare what he does compared to other heroes that do similar things.


Quote:
Certainly since only you have access to the +1 die, not your opponents so you get an edge over them

Not true because their heroes have other abilities as well which should give them the equivalent of the extra die.

If I have Anvil, I can upgrade weapons and give them +1 die
But meanwhile you have Grom who constantly rolls an extra die.

So you have no extra edge.

Anvil can give the bonuses to other guild members, which makes him very good, but he is also limited to only do it via a kill while other heroes do not. That's the balance between the two.

Saying you don't get the coins seriously hinders its usefulness.
 
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Joe fife
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His rule:
Quote:
He may place the coins he gains from killing Enemies on non-Magic Attack cards of his Guild. These cards roll +1 die. Limit 1 coin per card.

The only time an attack card could be said to roll would be when it's used to attack.


From the Kickstarter:
Quote:
Anvil is just about the most skilled weaponsmith in the realm. He's so good that he can even improve the weapons of his guild in the middle of battle! All he needs is the raw material he takes from his fallen enemies. When he kills an enemy, he may take the coins he gains as a reward and use them to mark any non-Magic attack card in his guild. Cards marked in this way roll an extra die when used!

While not a rule, it indicates that the intent was for the card to gain the die only when used, and therefore only when attacking.
 
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Thaddeus MacTaggart
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Imriel wrote:
His rule:
Quote:
He may place the coins he gains from killing Enemies on non-Magic Attack cards of his Guild. These cards roll +1 die. Limit 1 coin per card.

The only time an attack card could be said to roll would be when it's used to attack.

From the Kickstarter:
Quote:
Anvil is just about the most skilled weaponsmith in the realm. He's so good that he can even improve the weapons of his guild in the middle of battle! All he needs is the raw material he takes from his fallen enemies. When he kills an enemy, he may take the coins he gains as a reward and use them to mark any non-Magic attack card in his guild. Cards marked in this way roll an extra die when used!

While not a rule, it indicates that the intent was for the card to gain the die only when used, and therefore only when attacking.

Well .. you also "use" the upgrade when defending, like the Parrying Blade? Or .. ?
 
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Joe fife
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Teowulff wrote:
Imriel wrote:
His rule:
Quote:
He may place the coins he gains from killing Enemies on non-Magic Attack cards of his Guild. These cards roll +1 die. Limit 1 coin per card.

The only time an attack card could be said to roll would be when it's used to attack.

From the Kickstarter:
Quote:
Anvil is just about the most skilled weaponsmith in the realm. He's so good that he can even improve the weapons of his guild in the middle of battle! All he needs is the raw material he takes from his fallen enemies. When he kills an enemy, he may take the coins he gains as a reward and use them to mark any non-Magic attack card in his guild. Cards marked in this way roll an extra die when used!

While not a rule, it indicates that the intent was for the card to gain the die only when used, and therefore only when attacking.

Well .. you also "use" the upgrade when defending, like the Parrying Blade? Or .. ?
Not really.
Page 15 of the rule book:
Quote:
Attack Dice Pool
The attacking player gathers a number of black Attack dice equal to the number indicated on the Attack card being used. If he’s accessing any bonuses granted by other cards, those extra Attack dice are also added to his pool.

Defense Dice Pool
If the targeted Character has any Defense listed on his card, the player controlling him gathers a number of white Defense dice equal to that character’s Defense. If a targeted Hero possesses any cards with extra Defense icons, those dice are added as well. All of a Hero’s cards with extra Defense icons always add to his Defense pool, whether they are exhausted or not


Page 26 in the rule book:
Quote:
D. Attack dice - Only Attack cards feature these. This is the number of Attack dice rolled by this attack, as well as the type of attack the card is able to make

Page 27 in the rule book:
Quote:
EXTRA DEFENSE
Cards with this Extra Defense icon grant the Hero who owns them the number of extra Defense dice listed. Whenever the Hero needs to make a Defense roll, add together his basic Defense and all Extra Defense his cards might grant him. Extra Defense is always added to the Hero’s Defense, even if the card that contains it is exhausted.

"These cards roll +1 die" seems to be specifically worded to add to the Attack dice on the card without adding to the defense bonus.
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christian plekavic
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Thank you all for the replies and opinions.

It is probably fair to say that this particular special ability is not straightforward.

There are mixed opinions as to how his special ability affects weapons and money durring the upgrade phase. Although I understand everyone's point, I don't believe it is clear - meaning the argument can still be made either way.

I wrote CMON support to see if maybe we can get an official ruling, but I suspect it may take s while assuming I do get a response.

The discussion so far has been very interesting, especially on rule interpretation.
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christian plekavic
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From CMON:

Hello,
We apologize for the delay in responding. I reached out to our producers for clarification, and this is their response.
1) The bonus only applies to Attack rolls.
2) Yes, the coins return to the player's spending pool during the upgrade phase.

So that is good as this is how we been playing him.
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