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Subject: X-23 and Cross-Dimensional Rampage rss

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Michael M.
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On the rule sheet for Secret Wars, it says that Cross-Dimensional Wolverine Rampage counts for any cards with the words "Wolverine" or "Old Man Logan" in its name. "X-23" obviously doesn't contain any of those words, but it would make sense for her cards to count as well. I'm not a big fan of house ruling, but what do you think?
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Alex Mitchell
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They are not the same person so I would say no
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Michael M.
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Thor, Lady Thor and The Thor Corps are not the same people but they count for the Cross-Dimensional Thor rampage, but they have the word "Thor" in their name.
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Jason Walker
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She is a clone of Logan, so I'd say with that kind of nerd knowledge, she would count.
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David A
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There is no word "Wolverine" or "Logan" in her name. Not everyone has the nerd knowledge and she isn't specified by name (such as Maestro for Hulk) so I'd say she doesn't count.
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Scott Wheelock
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Seems to me like she might count.
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Jason Walker
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Her clone status is also in the flavor text for one of her cards.

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Alex Mitchell
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TravelSized wrote:
She is a clone of Logan, so I'd say with that kind of nerd knowledge, she would count.


Ever since the Cable/Stryfe retcon in the 90s Marvel has shown it doesn't quite understand the meaning of the word clone
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Josh Worley
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This has been discussed quite a bit here, starting on page 3: Fan service, or a disservice?.

The general consensus among BGG users is "it's up to you, because we have valid arguments from both sides."

It would be good to get an official ruling from Upper Deck on it.
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Itai Rosenbaum
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swirlsaepi wrote:
This has been discussed quite a bit here, starting on page 3: Fan service, or a disservice?.

The general consensus among BGG users is "it's up to you, because we have valid arguments from both sides."

It would be good to get an official ruling from Upper Deck on it.


Personally - I think she counts, just like I think Wolverinepool counts for both Cross Dimensional Wolverine Rampaga and Cross Dimensional Deadpool Rampage.

But, just for shits and giggles, the rules state

Quote:
This counts any card that includes “Hulk” in its card name or Hero name


So, since X-23's rare is called "Heir to Wolverine", it has "Wolverine" in its card name and thus, according to rules-as-read, counts.
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Josh Worley
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Trump wrote:
I'd say she doesn't count specifically because of this example :

Thud105 wrote:
Not everyone has the nerd knowledge and she isn't specified by name (such as Maestro for Hulk) so I'd say she doesn't count.


This exact example existed when the keyword came out and Upper Deck did not choose to make that the rule then.

Of course, it's your game and you can do whatever you wish. I confess to liking the idea about being able to flaunt "nerd knowledge" in the game. Where does that end though? Would the Leader count because he got his powers from the same source as the Hulk? Think that's stretching? Then how come Lady Thor counts for Thor? For sanity's sake, you're probably best off sticking to the letter of the law.


Didn't the Secret Wars rulesheet specifically mention Maestro as counting?

EDIT: Yes it does. The rulesheet states Meastro and Nul both count for Hulk Rampage.
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Michael Denman
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swirlsaepi wrote:
Didn't the Secret Wars rulesheet specifically mention Maestro as counting?


Well, I'll be dam&$%d. I could have sworn that was NOT the case. That changes everything then. I'd say let your nerd knowledge fly. Upper Deck couldn't possibly have cited every future example, nor could they be expected to update this when new characters come out. I DO still wonder where it might all end though. My example with the Leader still stands. Would he count for the Hulk?
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Adelin Dumitru
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IronSyndicate wrote:


But, just for shits and giggles, the rules state

Quote:
This counts any card that includes “Hulk” in its card name or Hero name


So, since X-23's rare is called "Heir to Wolverine", it has "Wolverine" in its card name and thus, according to rules-as-read, counts.


Yep, the rules can lead to some hilarious situations. Imagine a hero named "No Freaking Way is this Hulk". According to the rules, it would count.

However, a more charitable reading would follow the spirit of the rules, but where's the fun in that?
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David A
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swirlsaepi wrote:
Trump wrote:
I'd say she doesn't count specifically because of this example :

Thud105 wrote:
Not everyone has the nerd knowledge and she isn't specified by name (such as Maestro for Hulk) so I'd say she doesn't count.


This exact example existed when the keyword came out and Upper Deck did not choose to make that the rule then.

Of course, it's your game and you can do whatever you wish. I confess to liking the idea about being able to flaunt "nerd knowledge" in the game. Where does that end though? Would the Leader count because he got his powers from the same source as the Hulk? Think that's stretching? Then how come Lady Thor counts for Thor? For sanity's sake, you're probably best off sticking to the letter of the law.


Didn't the Secret Wars rulesheet specifically mention Maestro as counting?

EDIT: Yes it does. The rulesheet states Meastro and Nul both count for Hulk Rampage.

Yes, that's why I used that as my example of a name that's not Hulk, but counts as Hulk. Sorry if I my wording muddied the waters. Either way, they included that clarification for the very reason that not everyone has that level of Nerd Knowledge so they were removing that question mark for everyone.
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Michael M.
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IronSyndicate wrote:
swirlsaepi wrote:
This has been discussed quite a bit here, starting on page 3: Fan service, or a disservice?.

The general consensus among BGG users is "it's up to you, because we have valid arguments from both sides."

It would be good to get an official ruling from Upper Deck on it.


Personally - I think she counts, just like I think Wolverinepool counts for both Cross Dimensional Wolverine Rampaga and Cross Dimensional Deadpool Rampage.

But, just for shits and giggles, the rules state

Quote:
This counts any card that includes “Hulk” in its card name or Hero name


So, since X-23's rare is called "Heir to Wolverine", it has "Wolverine" in its card name and thus, according to rules-as-read, counts.


Hmmm, so SOME of her cards count, but others don't. I wish the X-Men rule sheet had a liner that "grandfathered" her in, just to be clear.
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Ryin
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IronSyndicate wrote:
swirlsaepi wrote:
This has been discussed quite a bit here, starting on page 3: Fan service, or a disservice?.

The general consensus among BGG users is "it's up to you, because we have valid arguments from both sides."

It would be good to get an official ruling from Upper Deck on it.


Personally - I think she counts, just like I think Wolverinepool counts for both Cross Dimensional Wolverine Rampaga and Cross Dimensional Deadpool Rampage.

But, just for shits and giggles, the rules state

Quote:
This counts any card that includes “Hulk” in its card name or Hero name


So, since X-23's rare is called "Heir to Wolverine", it has "Wolverine" in its card name and thus, according to rules-as-read, counts.


So does that mean that only that one card counts?
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Jason Walker
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M_Strauss wrote:
Hmmm, so SOME of her cards count, but others don't. I wish the X-Men rule sheet had a liner that "grandfathered" her in, just to be clear.


They didn't even have room for a flavor intro!

Either way, I think that Devin's prior ruling that Red She-Hulk counts for stopping a Hulk Rampage, despite being a different character, shows that there's some flexibility in the keyword rules.
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Scott
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It's one of my least favorite keyword mechanics to begin with.

Since Maestro is a different version of Hulk, X-13 is a different version of Wolverine... right? Maestro doesn't have the word 'Hulk' anywhere on the card if I remember right.

Kind of a sloppy mechanic, which is probably why I never liked it.

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Stephen Mills
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klakak wrote:
IronSyndicate wrote:
swirlsaepi wrote:
This has been discussed quite a bit here, starting on page 3: Fan service, or a disservice?.

The general consensus among BGG users is "it's up to you, because we have valid arguments from both sides."

It would be good to get an official ruling from Upper Deck on it.


Personally - I think she counts, just like I think Wolverinepool counts for both Cross Dimensional Wolverine Rampaga and Cross Dimensional Deadpool Rampage.

But, just for shits and giggles, the rules state

Quote:
This counts any card that includes “Hulk” in its card name or Hero name


So, since X-23's rare is called "Heir to Wolverine", it has "Wolverine" in its card name and thus, according to rules-as-read, counts.


So does that mean that only that one card counts?


So what are you guys going to do?

One Card rules them all good to stop the rampage?
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Jake Finnegan
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usuba wrote:
klakak wrote:
IronSyndicate wrote:
swirlsaepi wrote:
This has been discussed quite a bit here, starting on page 3: Fan service, or a disservice?.

The general consensus among BGG users is "it's up to you, because we have valid arguments from both sides."

It would be good to get an official ruling from Upper Deck on it.


Personally - I think she counts, just like I think Wolverinepool counts for both Cross Dimensional Wolverine Rampaga and Cross Dimensional Deadpool Rampage.

But, just for shits and giggles, the rules state

Quote:
This counts any card that includes “Hulk” in its card name or Hero name


So, since X-23's rare is called "Heir to Wolverine", it has "Wolverine" in its card name and thus, according to rules-as-read, counts.


So does that mean that only that one card counts?


So what are you guys going to do?

One Card rules them all good to stop the rampage?


My playgroup will be allowing her to count as a Wolverine. We feel that allowing Nul and Maestro, Old Man Logan and Weapon X, Lady Thor to count is enough precedent to allow X-23 to count. We read the rule as having two triggers. One being found in the cards name, the other allowing for alternate version of the character to count. Lady Thor hits both boxes, Maestro the second, Wolverinepool the first, etc.


As for how much "nerd knowledge" one needs... I guess what you dont know wont hurt you.
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Jake Finnegan
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On a side note Mojo's Tactic "Cross-Dimensional Marketing" seems like a lost opportunity to throw the keyword back at us again. Cross-Dimensional Mojo ... or maybe reveal the top card of the hero deck, cross dimensional rampage for that hero.
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Itai Rosenbaum
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usuba wrote:
klakak wrote:
IronSyndicate wrote:
swirlsaepi wrote:
This has been discussed quite a bit here, starting on page 3: Fan service, or a disservice?.

The general consensus among BGG users is "it's up to you, because we have valid arguments from both sides."

It would be good to get an official ruling from Upper Deck on it.


Personally - I think she counts, just like I think Wolverinepool counts for both Cross Dimensional Wolverine Rampaga and Cross Dimensional Deadpool Rampage.

But, just for shits and giggles, the rules state

Quote:
This counts any card that includes “Hulk” in its card name or Hero name


So, since X-23's rare is called "Heir to Wolverine", it has "Wolverine" in its card name and thus, according to rules-as-read, counts.


So does that mean that only that one card counts?


So what are you guys going to do?

One Card rules them all good to stop the rampage?


Like I said in the quoted post - I'm going to count her for Rampage purposes. All of her cards, not just the Rare
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David A
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But she only recently took on the mantle of the new Wolverine. The iteration in this set, her artwork, are all when she was X-23 or, in some circles, Laura.

Personally, I don't plan to use her for CDWR because she's not an iteration of Logan himself, regardless of where here chromosomes came from. All of those other iterations of the Hulk are either versions of Dr Banner OR they are a bonafide Hulk (Red She-Hulk) just like if we ever get She-Hulk (I mean, come on already! We need Jennifer Walters in our game!)
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Tommy Brownell
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Thud105 wrote:
But she only recently took on the mantle of the new Wolverine. The iteration in this set, her artwork, are all when she was X-23 or, in some circles, Laura.

Personally, I don't plan to use her for CDWR because she's not an iteration of Logan himself, regardless of where here chromosomes came from. All of those other iterations of the Hulk are either versions of Dr Banner OR they are a bonafide Hulk (Red She-Hulk) just like if we ever get She-Hulk (I mean, come on already! We need Jennifer Walters in our game!)


Civil War She-Hulk would count if she's in your victory pile.
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Steve Bird
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Thud105 wrote:
All of those other iterations of the Hulk are either versions of Dr Banner OR they are a bonafide Hulk (Red She-Hulk) just like if we ever get She-Hulk (I mean, come on already! We need Jennifer Walters in our game!)

What about the Hulk Gang? They clearly count per the rules, and are clearly not any iteration of the Hulk.
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