Graham Martin
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UPDATE: Due to popular demand, I have:

1) Added Conversion Kit heroes (denoted with "(CK)" after their name, and

2) Fixed some typos and errors in the original post.

Unfortunately, since BGG doesn't let you edit pols after you create them, I have to re-crate it from scratch. Apologies to the two people who had their answers erased!


UPDATE 2: I swapped the key for Battlemage and Runemaster. It is obvious when you look at the question, but I thought I would point it out. So, if you like Runemaster, you want to vote highly for "Battlemage."

ORIGINAL POST:

Hey guys! Since it is a holiday weekend here in the recently-liberated colonies, I have a little time on my hand. Since I have been playing a lot of Road to Legend lately, I thought I would send out a poll for fun.

Remember, this is in context of playing Road To Legend, only. Some heroes may be great against an OL but not so good in RtL and visa-versa!

I know the best answers to the questions I pose are "it depends" but I am just trying to get a feel for peoples thoughts about stand-alone heroes without worrying about synergies or which campaign you are on, etc.

If you want a complete set of stats and abilities all on one place, I recommend Descent 2e Hero Spreadsheet from Sadgit!

Let me know if I missed anything!

Have fun!

Poll
1. Rate the warriors:
  Overpowered! Great! Average. I'll make it work. Meh. Can I pick someone else? I'd rather play Chutes and Ladders!
Alys Raine
Corbin
Corbin (CK)
Eliam (CK)
Grisban the Thirsty
Hugo the Glorious (CK)
Karnon
Karnon (CK)
Krutzbeck
Krutzbeck (CK)
Laughin Buldar (CK)
Lord Hawthorne
Lord Hawthorne (CK)
Mordrog
Mordrog (CK)
Nanok of the Blade
Nanok of the Blade (CK)
Nara the Fang
Nara the Fang (CK)
Onefist
Onefist (CK)
Orkell the Swift
Pathfinder Durik
Reynhart the Worthy
Sir Valadir
Sir Valadir (CK)
Steelhorns
Steelhorns (CK)
Syndrael
Tahlia
Tahlia (CK)
Trenloe the Strong
Trenloe the Strong (CK)
Varikas the Dead (CK)
2. Rate the mages:
  Overpowered! Great! Average. I'll make it work. Meh. Can I pick someone else? I'd rather play Chutes and Ladders!
Astarra
Astarra (CK)
Challara
Challara (CK)
Dezra the Vile
Highmage Quellen
Jaes the Exile
Jaes the Exile (CK)
Landrec the Wise (CK)
Leorik of the Book
Lyssa
Lyssa (CK)
Mad Carthos (CK)
Master Thorn
Master Thorn (CK)
Ravaella Lightfoot
Shiver
Shiver (CK)
Truthseer (Seer) Kel
Truthseer (Seer) Kel (CK)
Widow Tarha
Zyla
Zyla (CK)
3. Rate the scouts:
  Overpowered! Great! Average. I'll make it work. Meh. Can I pick someone else? I'd rather play Chutes and Ladders!
Arvel Worldwalker
Arvel Worldwalker (CK)
Bogran the Shadow (CK)
Grey Ker
Grey Ker (CK)
Jaine Fairwood
Kirga (CK)
Laurel of the Bloodwood
Laurel of the Bloodwood (CK)
Lindel
Lindel (CK)
Logan Lashley
Raythen
Red Scorpion (CK)
Roganna the Shade
Ronan of the Wild
Ronan of the Wild (CK)
Silhouette
Silhouette (CK)
Tatianna
Tatianna (CK)
Tetherys
Tetherys (CK)
Thaiden Mistspeak
Tinashi the Wanderer
Tobin Farslayer (CK)
Tomble Burrowell
Vyrah the Falconer
Vyrah the Falconer (CK)
4. Rate the healers:
  Overpowered! Great! Average. I'll make it work. Meh. Can I pick someone else? I'd rather play Chutes and Ladders!
Andira Runehand
Andira Runehand (CK)
Ashrian
Augur Grisom
Aurim (CK)
Avric Albright
Brother Gherinn
Brother Gherinn (CK)
Brother Glyr (CK)
Elder Mok
Elder Mok (CK)
Ispher
Ispher (CK)
Jonas the Kind
Jonas the Kind (CK)
Okaluk and Rakash
Okaluk and Rakash (CK)
Rendiel
Sahla
Sahla (CK)
Serena
Ulma Grimstone
5. Rate the warrior classes:
  Overpowered! Great! Average. I'll make it work. Meh. Can I pick someone else? I'd rather play Chutes and Ladders!
Beastmaster
Berserker
Champion
Knight
Marshal
Skirmisher
Steelcaster - Conjurer
Steelcaster - Geomancer
Steelcaster - Hexer
Steelcaster - Necromancer
Steelcaster - Runemaster
6. Rate the mage classes:
  Overpowered! Great! Average. I'll make it work. Meh. Can I pick someone else? I'd rather play Chutes and Ladders!
Battlemage
Conjurer
Geomancer
Hexer
Necromancer
Runemaster - Beastmaster
Runemaster - Berserker
Runemaster - Champion
Runemaster - Knight
Runemaster - Marshal
Runemaster - Skirmisher
7. Rate the scout classes:
  Overpowered! Great! Average. I'll make it work. Meh. Can I pick someone else? I'd rather play Chutes and Ladders!
Bounty Hunter
Shadow Walker
Stalker
Thief
Treasure Hunter
Wildlander
Monk - Apothecary
Monk - Bard
Monk - Disciple
Monk - Prophet
Monk - Spiritspeaker
8. Rate the healer classes:
  Overpowered! Great! Average. I'll make it work. Meh. Can I pick someone else? I'd rather play Chutes and Ladders!
Apothecary
Bard
Disciple
Prophet
Spiritspeaker
Watchman - Bounty Hunter
Watchman - Shadow Walker
Watchman - Stalker
Watchman - Thief
Watchman - Treasure Hunter
Watchman - Wildlander
      17 answers
Poll created by Grahamers2002
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Graham Martin
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MY MUST-HAVES

Warriors
• Nanok of the Blade (CK)
• Onefist
• Reynhart the Worthy

Mages
• Highmage Quellen

Scouts
• Lindel

Healers
• Elder Mok

MY MUST-AVOIDS

Warriors
• Eliam (CK)
• Hugo the Glorious (CK)
• Nanok of the Blade
• Orkell the Swift

Mages
• Challara
• Landrec the Wise (CK)

Scouts
• Raythen

Healers
• Brother Gherinn
• Brother Gherinn (CK)
• Brother Glyr (CK)
• Serena

BEST OVERALL
Lindel

WORST OVERALL
Serna

DREAM TEAM

Onefist - Beastmaster
Elder Mok - Bard
Lindel - Treasure Hunter
High Mage Quellen - Runemaster
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Dirk Meijer
Netherlands
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Grahamers2002 wrote:
WORST OVERALL
Serna

Strongly disagree with this one, Serena is pretty amazing. The brown die is easily remedied with armor (moreso in RtL, because of selling back to store for full price) and her Ability also helps before that.

Her Feat is pretty powerful, but her strongest point is having 6 Stamina. She works well as any class, but my favorite so far is Watchman/Bounty Hunter, the extra stamina movement really pays off there.
 
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Forsetius
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Quote:
DREAM TEAM

Onefist - Beastmaster
Elder Mok - Bard
Lindel - Treasure Hunter
High Mage Quellen - Runemaster

Hehe - just started playing a Seeds of Corruption campaign with this exact setup bar one exception: Elder Mok is Apothecary, but otherwise spot on

Chose the normal mode, but it is seemingly too easy with this setup...
 
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Graham Martin
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dwjmeijer wrote:
Grahamers2002 wrote:
WORST OVERALL
Serna

Strongly disagree with this one, Serena is pretty amazing. The brown die is easily remedied with armor (moreso in RtL, because of selling back to store for full price) and her Ability also helps before that.

Her Feat is pretty powerful, but her strongest point is having 6 Stamina. She works well as any class, but my favorite so far is Watchman/Bounty Hunter, the extra stamina movement really pays off there.

Thanks for your feedback!

I get where you are coming from. However, she has many other deficiencies. And while you *can* work around her brown die, it is a drain on the team that you shouldn't have to deal with.

Here are the cons as I see them:

1) Three speed - RtL is all about speed. Kill quickly, move to the next door and push forward. Three speed is almost enough of a deal breaker on its own. Six stamina simply doesn't change the fact that she has three speed. Sure, IF you have full stamina and need to get going you can move 9 spaces and then rest. But other healers (Ashrian and Rendiel) can move 10 spaces without spending ANY stamina at all AND have a much better hero ability, health, and/or attribute distribution. Stamina is the currency of the game. using it to compensate for slowness is a waste.


2) Eight health - She is the *only* character with three speed and only eight health. Of the 19 other three-speed heroes, three have 10 health, 11 have 12 health, and five have 14 health. Low speed *and* low health? Ugh!

Note: The thee other characters with two speed all have an ability that grants them movement points each turn. The two versions of Okaluk and Rakash has 2 speed but gain 4 movement point each turn. That is actually pretty awesome since they can attack twice AND move four every turn without using any stamina. The third hero with two movement,
Brother Glyr, only gets two free movement points per turn, which makes him pretty bad. But at least he can still attack twice and move two spaces every turn without stamina. Also, he has 12 health and a much better attribute distribution (4,3,1,3) than Serena (1,5,3,2) to make up for it.

3) Attribute distribution - RtL throws random perils and other events at you that require some or all heroes to perform attribute tests. I strongly suspect that many time the game figures out what your team's worst attribute category is and has you test that one. Due to this added randomness of attribute tests, I give a little extra weight to a hero with more balanced attribute scores. (5,3,2,1) is not as good as (4,3,3,1) or (4,3,2,2). Serena has 5,3,2,1. This is important yet often overlooked. Some folks like a highly varied distribution so they have someone to "take care of business" in those few moments where a known attribute test comes up and they can pick which hero makes the test. I just think that this doesn't happen as much as the "everyone test X, anyone who fails is screwed" tests.

4) She weighs the party down - You rightly point out that she can work around he brown defense die by a combination of 1) armor, and 2) her special ability (an adjacent hero can spend a stamina to take an attack that was intended for Serena.) But I would argue that all that means is that she is taking resources away form the party. She is buying and using armor instead of your tank. She is forcing other heroes to spend stamina, the most precious resource in the game, for the privilege of getting attacked.

5) Her feat unreliable. 45% of the time she heals everyone within 3 spaces of her for 6 and 2 stamina. 50% of the time, she heals them for 3 and 1 stamina. 5% of the time she does nothing. That's awfully inconsistent. AND it costs an action. AND it only affects heroes within three spaces. Compare this to Averic's ability. Here are the % of times you get each heal amount:

2 health - 3%
3 health - 17%
4 health - 36%
5 health - 33%
6 health - 11%

So, 80% of the time, you are getting a better heal than Serena's most probable outcome. In Serena's favor, 1) Averic gets a 5 or 6 point heal 44% of the time whereas Serena gets a 6 point heal 45% of the time AND Averic's ability does not restore that precious stamina. However, Averic NEVER fails to heal at LEAST 2 points. PLUS Averic's stats are MUCH better AND he ability is MASSIVE.

So, Serena' pros: 1) 6 stamina, and a 45% chance at a big AOE heal once per encounter. Cons: everything else.

Basically, she is dead weight that the heroes have to drag through the encounter who hogs armor better spent on tanks, drains folks of stamina as they sacrifice themselves to protect her, drains herself of stamina as she struggles to keep up the pace as heroes run through the dungeon, and when called upon to do her *one* job (biog AOE heal), she stands a chance of doing absolutely zilch while wasting an action.

Sure you can make up for these deficiencies with gear, but why force yourself to do that? Others contribute tot he party, she drains it.

I stand by my assessment. She is the worst character in the game and playing with her as your healer should be its own difficulty level. :-)

What would make her better? I am not sure. Certainly a grey die, 5 speed, or a 4,3,3,1 attribute distribution would be nice, but I am not sure how much better since her hero ability is still wasted space and he feat is random and potentially a bust.

I think the only way to make her worth all of her down-sides is to change her feat to, "As an action, all heroes withing three spaces of Serena restore 6 heart and 2 stamina." Leave all of her other crappy stats in place and all of a sudden she becomes that VIP worth protecting and dragging through a dungeon because you know that when it comes time for her to shine, she is going to change the tide of battle, big time.

Of course, it's all subjective and based on a lot of other factors and personal preference, but that's why I chose her for worst in game.

Thanks again for your post. It forced me to quantify why I dislike her so much. But, to each his own. Perhaps roleplaying a draining VIP the party has to protect is fun, sometimes!
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Lightningclaw Stormcaller
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I see all the non-CK brown die heroes are on your list. Is that partly because of said defense die?
Personally, due to items being sold at full value, as well as guaranteed item types during shopping, I feel that the brown die is much easier to compensate for than in normal 1vsMany.

I agree with your points about Serena's ability beings drain on the team, but I don't feel she is a very low-tier hero.

My favorite team:

Andira the Bard

Serena the Spiritspeaker

Orkell the Skirmisher

I'm unsure of who to put in this slot. I've experimented with Nanok the Berserker, Challara the Battlemage Beastmaster. If I had MoR I'd put in a Runemaster to Doom everything.

The two Healers demolish high-figure monster groups. Andira can use Dissonance as well. Andira is the primary healer, leaving Serena to Tempest/Shared Pain/Ancestral Spirits all day, and still be able to contribute to healing with Stone Skin, or Drain Spirit, etc.
Additionally, Understudy can augment Serena's heroic feat.
Orkell has the stamina and skills to mitate the weakness to big monsters (Unrelenting, Deep Wounds, Dual Strike) and if he does die, it merely costs a Morale due to his feat.

The fourth slot is fairly open, still experimenting with that.
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Graham Martin
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Bumping in the hope of getting more responses!

Would love for this thread to become a good reference page.
 
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Lightningclaw wrote:


My favorite team:

Andira the Bard

Serena the Spiritspeaker

Orkell the Skirmisher

I'm unsure of who to put in this slot. I've experimented with Nanok the Berserker, Challara the Battlemage Beastmaster. If I had MoR I'd put in a Runemaster to Doom everything.

The two Healers demolish high-figure monster groups. Andira can use Dissonance as well. Andira is the primary healer, leaving Serena to Tempest/Shared Pain/Ancestral Spirits all day, and still be able to contribute to healing with Stone Skin, or Drain Spirit, etc.
Additionally, Understudy can augment Serena's heroic feat.
Orkell has the stamina and skills to mitate the weakness to big monsters (Unrelenting, Deep Wounds, Dual Strike) and if he does die, it merely costs a Morale due to his feat.

The fourth slot is fairly open, still experimenting with that.

It's a good point that the whole of a team can be greater than the sum of its individual parts. It potentially matters less what the strongest heroes and classes are than how the heroes and their chosen classes compliment each other.

On the surface, Serena seems incredibly weak, and I would have rated Spiritspeaker the weakest class in the game. But together and when supported by complimentary heroes it seems like Serena + Spiritspeaker + Andira + Dissonance would be very powerful, especially against large groups of monsters seen in 4 player.

Orkell seem really weak too, but in this case he serves a purpose within the party concept. Not sure who the obvious fourth member is but it might make sense to take someone who can move monsters against their will into the the zone of death created by Serena. Maybe a Conjurer with Vortex or a Geomancer with Gravity Spike?
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I happen to really like Orkell- he's one of my favorite warriors. I think he's pretty good in either game mode. The moral cost of his heroic feat is a problem, but if you're pretty confident about the quest you can let him run around taking hits, because he is barely slowed down when KO'd. Also, his hero ability is really useful.

And 5 in both speed and stamina is nice, especially compared to the rest of the roster, where one 5 is rare, and 4s and 3s dominate.

Also, imho his brown die is easier to mitigate in RtL, because you have more gold and sell stuff at full price, so you don't really need to save my money.

When I was trying the Andira/Serena combo, it worked well. However, there was a stage (two monster groups: Kobolds and Fire Imps) where I completely forgot about Andira's hero ability.
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J J
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Lightningclaw wrote:
I happen to really like Orkell- he's one of my favorite warriors. I think he's pretty good in either game mode.

I've been mostly playing The Delve and I can say that compensating for base brown die defence is much more difficult because equipment upgrades are completely random and much of the time at least one or two characters don't get armour upgrades at all.

When I played Andira Bard + Serena Spiritspeaker + Orkell Skirmisher + Astarra Conjurer they did very well against large groups of low health monsters with Tempest + Vortex + Dissonance + Andira's ability but struggled a bit when faced with situations where they needed to tank damage for a few turns or were matched against monsters that had high health or the ability to heal themselves.
 
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Fabio Binder
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Really useful poll, thanks a lot. Unfortunately I don't know/have half of them.
 
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A J
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Forsetius wrote:

Quote:
DREAM TEAM

Onefist - Beastmaster
Elder Mok - Bard
Lindel - Treasure Hunter
High Mage Quellen - Runemaster

Hehe - just started playing a Seeds of Corruption campaign with this exact setup bar one exception: Elder Mok is Apothecary, but otherwise spot on

Chose the normal mode, but it is seemingly too easy with this setup...

Do you use any stand-in feat for Elder Mok, since the original one doesn't work in RtL?
 
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Lightningclaw Stormcaller
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ayejae wrote:
Forsetius wrote:

Quote:
DREAM TEAM

Onefist - Beastmaster
Elder Mok - Bard
Lindel - Treasure Hunter
High Mage Quellen - Runemaster

Hehe - just started playing a Seeds of Corruption campaign with this exact setup bar one exception: Elder Mok is Apothecary, but otherwise spot on

Chose the normal mode, but it is seemingly too easy with this setup...

Do you use any stand-in feat for Elder Mok, since the original one doesn't work in RtL?

Not the poster you were quoting, but I personally don’t use a homebrew feat for Mok, mostly because he is an A-tier healer with his ability alone.

Also partially because I have a few house rules but I’m not big on homebrewing (I use imperial assault LOS and I let large monsters declare attacks before expanding)
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