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Subject: Un-assembled bikers and crumpled instructions rss

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Ben Brereton
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Just got Flamme Rouge through the post today. Super excited about it and played it - great game!

However, when i opened it up, the instruction booklet was all crumpled and the riders were not assembled onto the bikes. When I assembled the riders onto the bikes by pushing the pegs on the legs into the pedal holes, they would not stay.

Is this normal with every edition of Flamme Rouge? The bikers look great and on a positive, they have letters painted on the back so you can tell the difference between the sprinter and rouler, but a shame they do not stay on properly. Could probably easily fix this with a spot of glue, but seems a slight oversight on the manufacturer's part, unless it is a one-off and not intended.

Also seems that the packaging lends itself to allowing the instruction booklet to be damaged easily. A shame as the game is great and the overall presentation is really really good....

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Gareth Thomas
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My copy arrived last week and while the instructions were fine my riders were also not connected to their bikes. I put a spot of glue on the saddle as I was eager to play but sounds like it may be a batch issue.
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Neil Horabin
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Have painted four sets of riders and no-one knew they came in two parts.. all had arrived in one piece. It makes painting possible though, can't imagine getting to some tummies, shorts and thighs without them parting from their bikes.. you'll also find that the sprinters have long sleeves and goggles, both useful differentiators.

Here's one of my snaps to highlight;

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René Christensen
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My rulebook was bend.
One rider was bend too, but easily fixed back in shape.
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Frank Jaeger
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Hi,

I am glad you like Flamme Rouge, Ben Bereton, and thank you for bringing this to our attention.

1) The rulebook should not be crumpled. It seems someone kicked the game around pretty good. Still, a rulebook usually lies flat on top and should sustain little damage. Is it still usable?

2) All riders off their bikes? Yes, somebody used the game for soccer practice. I am glad no rider is broken, but they are usually assembled onto their bikes, but not glued. If they were glued to the bikes, the thin arms and bike parts would likely break, so they are just assembled. You should be able to put them back on again. Since you say that it is not the case, I have just checked my copy here and I see what you mean. I also have one rider out of eight who is a little, uh, "John-Wayne-legged" (what do you call that in English?).

Generally, the miniatures are made from PVC which is taken out of the machine by hand while warm and soft and is cooled down in a water basin. Small deviations in the leg posture can occur. If you have such an issue, can you hold the rider under hot water or submerge him in hot water for 10 seconds, bring his leg in form by bending them closer together and cool him down again in cold water? That should do the trick.

I am sorry that you have that issue, the riders should fit, of course. I am just afraid we will not be able to avoid it completely with such a delicate figure, so this issue may come up for some games. If you could help me by fixing it with the above procedure, it would be very appreciated. If something cannot be fixed, please let me know.

I hope you have a lot of fun with the game.

Frank Jaeger
LUDO FACT GmbH
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Kevin Nottelling
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frank jaeger wrote:
"John-Wayne-legged" (what do you call that in English?).

I think this is the only acceptable way to describe this in English, or in a language.
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Ben Brereton
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Hi Frank,

Thank you for you detailed reply.

Yes, the instructions are still usable. The mechanics of the game are also pretty straightforward, so in all honesty, will only reference the rulebook occasionally anyway. Just seems a shame that it is crumpled from a purely aesthetic point of view, as the design of it as a newspaper and the presentation is really clever!

I tried using hot water on one of the bikes before, like you recommended, as one of the handlebars was slightly bent. The plastic on the model seems a bit more rigid that on the riders though, as it would not spring into position that easily. However, I will try this technique with all the riders. When I tried to line up their hands with the handlebars and then one of the legs with the pedal holes, it meant the leg was far too far away from the pedal hole on the other side. As you put it so well Frank, they all seem to have a gunslingers posture like 'John Wayne'! I will try again though, using the hot water method on all the models and then maybe see if I can glue them.

For the record, the game is amazing and absolutely beautiful to look at once it is set up on the table! Thematically, I cam just make out the riders are exhausted or maybe accidentally swapped their water bottle for wine, when they fall off anyway!

Kind regards

Ben
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Frank Jaeger
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I like the wine thing - after all, it is the time of the Tour de France now!

Thank you, Ben. Please keep me posted on your proceedings.

Best
Frank.
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Gwen Musker
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Yes I had exactly the same issue as you. Very disappointing. Rule book crumpled and torn and sprinters more likely to fall off the bikes than progress along the track.

No responses received from lautapelit when I contacted them. Has anyone had any success with their customer service?
 
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Esa Ryömä
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Musketeer84 wrote:
Yes I had exactly the same issue as you. Very disappointing. Rule book crumpled and torn and sprinters more likely to fall off the bikes than progress along the track.

No responses received from lautapelit when I contacted them. Has anyone had any success with their customer service?


Hi, this is Esa, an employee at the publisher Lautapelit.fi.

We have received several emails about crumpled rulebooks and unassembled cyclists. I apologize for the delayed (or worse, non-existent) email responses from us. It's taking us a few working days to wrap our heads around the issue and to find out 1) what can we do about it 2) how to do it etc.

I do recognize that even a "Hi, we'll contact you when we know the details" would've been nicer than silence, and this was solely bad communication from our part.

But everyone who has unassembled riders, please do read Frank's post above to see what you can do. Just unassembled riders does not mean they are defective! They simply have been "unclicked" from each other from heavy handling during shipping.

I apologize once more for this mishap and we're trying to get on top of it.


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Mike Jansons
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5 out of my 8 riders had fallen out as well, my rulebook was fine but my box insert...dear Lord I think a bear assembled it...was torn in multiple places and not even folded properly. Plus 1 of the card packs plastic was not stuck on. No big dramas since the insert will get chucked and the card plastic needed to be opened but disappointing none the less
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Andrew CARLESS
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Just for statistics, my rules were fine but the two RED cyclists were separated from their bikes. a little SuperGlu, everything solved :)
Bought this copy in Italy.
 
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Michael Bacon
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Frustrating.
 
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Michael Pyne
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I must say, the board gaming community seems very forgiving. This is a nice attribute to have. And, the people at Stronghold are, no doubt, good people who care and their margins are probably thin. This is also a game I would recommend buying. It's fun and very cool. But, here's the reality; that box is flimsy garbage. The wrap on the cards is weak. I'm not surprised that components are jostled and I'm shock we haven't read about more problems. (I wont even start on the inability to store the game in that box without taking the guts out and adding your own bits and pieces). And if a game costs upwards of fifty bucks and the components are poorly molded and the purchaser is told to heat up the components in hot water, gently bend them into the correct position, insert the pieces together and dab a little glue on them... Huh? That's a quality control issue. (In any other business that would be unacceptable). Tom Vasel literally dropped his components on the table and none blew apart. The "Shut Up and Sit Down" guys did similar. Why are mine in pieces? It's a cool game. Buy this game! Buy Stronghold products! They have some great ones. But, if people don't hold the manufacturer's feet to the fire on quality, that's never good.
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Frank Jaeger
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Hi Michael,

as working for said manufacturer, I find your choice of words offensive. I respect your opinion but feel the need to clarify a few things.

That box is not flimsy garbage, but exactly the material that we use for literally millions of boxes per year, for over 25 years. It is made from high quality, expensive grey cardboard made completely from recycled paper (mostly) and wood from 100% sustainable sources (for the rest), in a standard weight that is indeed thinner than what that weight from other sources may be, just because of the fine fibers used to produce the cardboard. That is, by the way, an attribute of quality.

The wrap on the cards is weak: Seriously? That is not shrink wrap but cellophane which has the advantage of a strip to open the decks instead of trying to carefully cut the wrap without damaging the cards on one of those terribly tight decks that hardly anyone can open without harming the cards inside. We use that packaging for even more millions of decks per year than we use the game box, and these decks even go into retail in that packaging. We never had any complaint about that.

On the miniatures: You say two people dropped their figures and all was well. You make my point - there are a few riders that become disassembled during transport. I can assure you, the riders were assembled when they left the factory. But the riders are made from two pieces. We did not solidly glue the riders together as force would then not disassemble them but break them. Since we were able to assemble the riders, we figured so would every gamer be.

But PVC can indeed get bent if the riders become disassembled. If that happens, is it really to much to ask to fix something after the potential hazard of shipping is passed that happens rarely and is one hundred percent caused by rough handling during transport? And that is the answer to your question "why are mine in pieces?" - because something happened during shipping, maybe in the container, or in the package to the retailer, or in the package to you. I am sorry for that, but to prevent damage we kept the riders in two parts, and that is why you have disassembled riders instead of broken ones. I was involved in the development of the pieces, and I would do it again the way we did it any day. I rather have you find a disassembled rider you can fix easily than a broken one.

As for your inability to store the game back in the box: Well, I could. And can. I have no idea where your problems stem from, what fits before the punched boards are disassembled also fits afterwards. Nothing in the game increases its volume.

None of what you state is a quality issue. Au contraire. Maybe you prefer a thicker box made from cutting down forests in asia, chipped up and put into thick, but low quality cardboard over the environmental friendly, FSC certified expensive cardboard we used. Maybe you prefer the tightly shrunk card decks that I find highly annoying over a cellophane with an opening strip. Maybe you would rather have broken riders than disassembled ones. But what most people here do is give the manufacturer the benefit of the doubt that we did give the game production some thought, as you can expect from professionals. Thank you for seemingly have the opinion we are either idiots or rascals.

All others: please read next comment. I would like to keep things separate here for reasons of structure and clarity.

Best regards
Frank Jaeger
LUDO FACT
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Frank Jaeger
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Hello everybody,

I have returned from Gen Con and where I have been shown the rule book issue by Stronghold Games. Since we looked into the issue here in the factory this morning, I would like to inform you about the outcome:

I have discussed the issue with the production team and we looked at the game (we have a sample game of every game we produce in our archive). We know what happened: When the game was assembled, the rule book was on top as it usually is. On the conveyor belt, since the rule book would be slightly higher than the sides of the box bottom, the rules slid and shifted and it was difficult to close the box without bending the rules. So the production team changed the order in the assembly of the game and put the rules between the punched boards to protect it. Unfortunately, some of the boards are smaller than the box. We think that is what can cause the crumpling. When the smaller boards shift during transport the rule book sometimes shifts with them and gets crumpled.

For future production runs, we need to make another change. The rule book should be beneath all punched boards, then on top the ones that fill the whole box bottom to protect the rule book, and the smaller ones on top where a shift cannot do any harm. We think that will solve the issue.

I am sorry for this inconvenience. What we did to fix an issue became another one which we did not anticipate.

Cheers
Frank Jaeger
LUDO FACT
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Michael Bacon
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frank jaeger wrote:
Hi Michael,

as working for said manufacturer, I find your choice of words offensive. I respect your opinion but feel the need to clarify a few things.

That box is not flimsy garbage, but exactly the material that we use for literally millions of boxes per year, for over 25 years. It is made from high quality, expensive grey cardboard made completely from recycled paper (mostly) and wood from 100% sustainable sources (for the rest), in a standard weight that is indeed thinner than what that weight from other sources may be, just because of the fine fibers used to produce the cardboard. That is, by the way, an attribute of quality.

The wrap on the cards is weak: Seriously? That is not shrink wrap but cellophane which has the advantage of a strip to open the decks instead of trying to carefully cut the wrap without damaging the cards on one of those terribly tight decks that hardly anyone can open without harming the cards inside. We use that packaging for even more millions of decks per year than we use the game box, and these decks even go into retail in that packaging. We never had any complaint about that.

On the miniatures: You say two people dropped their figures and all was well. You make my point - there are a few riders that become disassembled during transport. I can assure you, the riders were assembled when they left the factory. But the riders are made from two pieces. We did not solidly glue the riders together as force would then not disassemble them but break them. Since we were able to assemble the riders, we figured so would every gamer be.

But PVC can indeed get bent if the riders become disassembled. If that happens, is it really to much to ask to fix something after the potential hazard of shipping is passed that happens rarely and is one hundred percent caused by rough handling during transport? And that is the answer to your question "why are mine in pieces?" - because something happened during shipping, maybe in the container, or in the package to the retailer, or in the package to you. I am sorry for that, but to prevent damage we kept the riders in two parts, and that is why you have disassembled riders instead of broken ones. I was involved in the development of the pieces, and I would do it again the way we did it any day. I rather have you find a disassembled rider you can fix easily than a broken one.

As for your inability to store the game back in the box: Well, I could. And can. I have no idea where your problems stem from, what fits before the punched boards are disassembled also fits afterwards. Nothing in the game increases its volume.

None of what you state is a quality issue. Au contraire. Maybe you prefer a thicker box made from cutting down forests in asia, chipped up and put into thick, but low quality cardboard over the environmental friendly, FSC certified expensive cardboard we used. Maybe you prefer the tightly shrunk card decks that I find highly annoying over a cellophane with an opening strip. Maybe you would rather have broken riders than disassembled ones. But what most people here do is give the manufacturer the benefit of the doubt that we did give the game production some thought, as you can expect from professionals. Thank you for seemingly have the opinion we are either idiots or rascals.

All others: please read next comment. I would like to keep things separate here for reasons of structure and clarity.

Best regards
Frank Jaeger
LUDO FACT


I'm not sure I understand the complaints about the box or card wrap, but I mostly agree about the miniatures. I've never received broken miniatures before and I've also never seen miniatures made of this hard plastic that seems so fragile. Could it be that the fragile material and thinness of the miniatures led to the decision to build them in two parts? Anyway, repairing broken miniatures seems like it should be a manufacturer's job, not a customer expectation.
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Michael Pyne
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Let me start by apologizing for calling the box "garbage" and offending you. It was certainly too strong a term, incorrect, and knowing that you work to be environmentally concerned in your boxes changes my opinion a bit. I applaud your effort to save trees. So, you sound displeased with my statement and I have corrected it here. (Curious...what material are the tracks made out of)?

So, let me restate things. The box is thinner and lighter weight than most of the others on my game shelf and I wonder if it will stand the test of time.

The cellophane on one bundle of cards was off. The cards were loose.

The storage of components issue? It's an empty box with many, many cards, track pieces, and the bikes (in their little container), with no insert or good way to store cards or track pieces. There IS an increase in volume but i wont go into mathmatics to explain it. Perhaps not the end of the world but the consumer will have to house the cards and might want to secure the track as to add life to the game. I was just pointing that out. It potentially adds cost to the consumer. That's just a fact.

The bike riders? Your response goes contrary to the email that I received from Stronghold. That email, by the way, included a link to this thread. The riders were NOT simply unassembled. Your statement is disingenuous. Mine were BENT AND/OR TWISTED and I was told to heat them, re-bend them, and reasemble. Then add glue. These are tiny bits. Can people do it? Sure! At this price point should they? Not in my opinion. And I will add that while some can do this it is possible that some, like me, may have dexterity concerns and this task might not be so easy. Then I have to ask another to help... or lets add a visual impairment to the mix. These are tiny pieces to fix. In fact, and contrary to what you described, my riders did not ship in two pieces. Some were assembled and some were not. They appeared to be helter skelter. And, your idea that they are "easily fixed" isn't really the point.

I will say again BUY this game. It's fun. It's creative. Great art. Nice design.

And lastly, your idea that what I've stated "isn't a quality issue"? Well, you're wrong. The design, art, cards, track are nice. The box, storage, riders are poor.

I thought I was fair. Others can disagree.

What I think is; the original complaints were that the rider's identifying marks on their backs could not be read. The fix was to disassemble them, paint the identifying marks on the backs, and reassemble them. The manufacturer subsequently bent or otherwise caused a new problem, and this was passed on to me. (Most of this was explained in an email to me from Stronghold. I appreciated their honesty).

Lastly, while I disagree with you and Stronghold's interpretation of what "quality" and expectations on the consumer are, I do not feel I was mean enough to be lashed out at. You have a product in the marketplace. I have thoughts about it.

Customer service?

Michael

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Frank Jaeger
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Hi Michael,

thank you for your explanation. I have read you whole posting before I answer and would like to start with the last. If you feel I "lashed out at you", I apologize. That was never my intent.

I am happy that environmental concerns are valued by you. Ludo Fact has been very conscious about the envrionment, and our web of companies includes Vento Ludens, a company that plans, builds and operates wind energy parks since 1996, and Vallosol, a company that does the same with photovoltaoc plants. So it does come naturally to us to try to protect the environment as much as we can. The chipboard used in "Flamme Rouge" is made from recycled paper, the label paper is part recycled, part new paper. Unfortunately, recycled paper does not come as the pure white paper required, so some new wood is needed and some bleaching. But in Germany, wooden products all come from sustainable sources, we are not destroying forests anymore.

That being said, I do take your concerns seriously. Let me address them to see where we are really apart, and where we probably see more eye to eye than it seems at first glance.

Box: yes, it is indeed a bit thinner. So far I never had any complaints. We use that material composition for many, many years and I would estimate for over 100 million games in that box. Based on that I would expect it to stand the test of time.

Cellophane on cards: Off? Wow, I can understand why that would look bad. I am sorry. This is really unusual and I have no explanation for it.

No insert: What do you mean, no insert? There is an insert in the game. Granted, I consider inserts packing material until the game arrives in the hands of the players, but until then it does fulfil a purpose. After that, some do, soem don't. "Flamme Rouge" has a simple, but fully printed, one pocket insert to put in the box of the riders and the cards and wide enough to put the player boards in. Here is a picture of it: https://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/3198050/flamme-rouge
After you disassembled the punched boards, there is sufficient space to put the curves in as well. The long track pieces will probably have to go on top of the insert still, but I always thought that was okay.
I really do not understand your point of critizism. In my opinion, that is a good and simple way to store your game components, here the insert serves well even after the game was opened. Where do you disagree? I would like to understand so maybe for future games I can keep that in mind.

Bike Riders: Sorry, it seems I was unclear. They are composed of two pieces. They are assembled in the factory and should arrive assembled, too. That was always the idea. That we did not glue the riders together came from the concern that if we did the riders could be severly damaged during shipping. We felt a rider off the bike was better than one with broken arms. Then we made a change to the riders when we started to print the letters on the back. That did not change the molds, just added another production step. It seems after some investigation that this lead to more riders being off the bikes than before, but it follows no pattern. All are made from the same mold, and some riders sit on bikes, some are off bikes. We found a few with bend legs. These are the ones that Stronghold refers to as to fix with hot water. What we do not know at this time is if the riders have fallen off because they have bend legs, or if they have bend legs because they were off the bikes and got bend during transport.

We have addressed the issue to the factory in China and asked to check which changes can be made to find a better balance between riders staying on the bike but still fall off before being broken.

Here is what I take from all of this:
You would have liked a thicker box - I understand that. I don't see that as necessary based on my experience, but that does not make your opinion any less valid.
You would have liked a different insert - I think the insert works well and people have put thought into the design. I am sorry you don't feel it is adequate.
You have issues with storing the components inside the game - I must admit that I cannot understand that. It seems quite okay to me. What I did with my copy was to put the long tracks back in the frames, but the rest was stored perfectly beneath those boards.
You had a package of cards that was open - I apologize, I have no explanation. That a deck becomes unwrapped inside a sealed box is really rare. I have not heard that before, and I am sorry, your game must have been subject to some serious abuse before you safed and opened it.

Thank you for your comments and thank you even more for the constructive way we can discuss these things, even when we do not always agree. Your feedback to us is valuable. Here in the factory we make dozens of small decisions on material, set up, production methods all the time. Some can have an impact on the final product, and hardly any decision is without consequences in other areas. 99% of those will never be visible, but sometimes they are. On those cases feedback we get will be used to make future products better.

Best regards
Frank Jaeger
LUDO FACT
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As someone who recently purchased Flamme Rouge, I strongly agree with Michael. My rulebook was crumpled and damaged and while this is disappointing, I can understand that these things happen. I can also still read it and play the game, it doesn't really limit my enjoyment.

However I also received damaged cyclists. Legs were bent and damaged, as were the pins that go into the slots on the bikes. I've tried my best to fix them with the hot/cold water and bending them back into place method, for no success (I'm not particularly good with my hands or the small pieces).

After emailing Stronghold games, the answer I've received is "Bad luck, we have no intention of replacing your defective pieces, nor can you buy new ones, try your best to fix them". I understand gaming companies have thin budget lines, but I cannot even buy replacements?

This is in comparison with virtually every other game that I've bought. Where damaged or irregular pieces are met with replacements that are sent out immediately at no cost.

Quinns from SU&SD made the point on a recent podcast when talking about Pit Crew, that Stronghold Games completely cheaps it when it comes to component quality. Sadly, at this point I have to agree. I know that it doesn't bother some people, but for me it matters. While everyone else is trending up, Stronghold is trending down.

Ultimately it's up to the individual. If you feel lucky or comfortable in your ability to fix the pieces, I would recommend the game, it's excellent. Otherwise, I would say it's not worth the time nor trouble. For me personally, I would have serious doubts about ever purchasing another Stronghold Games game. I just don't want to have to go through all this mess just to have usable components.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to the hardware store to buy some glue to attempt to fix my brand new game.
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Michael Bacon
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I agree. I'll always recommend it highly with a warning. My cyclists are still a little broken but I painted them and am greatly enjoying the game anyway. It's like a print and play that costs too much.

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Brian Windle
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I too was disappointed when partner and I were setting up the game and she says "these are broken!" definitely shouldn't be asking the purchaser to correct mistakes for the price of the game... but you can make scenes like this while you're watching the Vuelta and waiting for her to come home and play again

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Can someone please post a picture of how the cards look like in the Stronghold edition? I have the first edition and I understand there were some changes in the card design as well.

The upcoming expansion will have the new card design, should I assume?

Thank you!
 
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frank jaeger wrote:
Hi Michael,

thank you for your explanation. I have read you whole posting before I answer and would like to start with the last. If you feel I "lashed out at you", I apologize. That was never my intent.

I am happy that environmental concerns are valued by you. Ludo Fact has been very conscious about the envrionment, and our web of companies includes Vento Ludens, a company that plans, builds and operates wind energy parks since 1996, and Vallosol, a company that does the same with photovoltaoc plants. So it does come naturally to us to try to protect the environment as much as we can. The chipboard used in "Flamme Rouge" is made from recycled paper, the label paper is part recycled, part new paper. Unfortunately, recycled paper does not come as the pure white paper required, so some new wood is needed and some bleaching. But in Germany, wooden products all come from sustainable sources, we are not destroying forests anymore.

That being said, I do take your concerns seriously. Let me address them to see where we are really apart, and where we probably see more eye to eye than it seems at first glance.

Box: yes, it is indeed a bit thinner. So far I never had any complaints. We use that material composition for many, many years and I would estimate for over 100 million games in that box. Based on that I would expect it to stand the test of time.

Cellophane on cards: Off? Wow, I can understand why that would look bad. I am sorry. This is really unusual and I have no explanation for it.

No insert: What do you mean, no insert? There is an insert in the game. Granted, I consider inserts packing material until the game arrives in the hands of the players, but until then it does fulfil a purpose. After that, some do, soem don't. "Flamme Rouge" has a simple, but fully printed, one pocket insert to put in the box of the riders and the cards and wide enough to put the player boards in. Here is a picture of it: https://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/3198050/flamme-rouge
After you disassembled the punched boards, there is sufficient space to put the curves in as well. The long track pieces will probably have to go on top of the insert still, but I always thought that was okay.
I really do not understand your point of critizism. In my opinion, that is a good and simple way to store your game components, here the insert serves well even after the game was opened. Where do you disagree? I would like to understand so maybe for future games I can keep that in mind.

Bike Riders: Sorry, it seems I was unclear. They are composed of two pieces. They are assembled in the factory and should arrive assembled, too. That was always the idea. That we did not glue the riders together came from the concern that if we did the riders could be severly damaged during shipping. We felt a rider off the bike was better than one with broken arms. Then we made a change to the riders when we started to print the letters on the back. That did not change the molds, just added another production step. It seems after some investigation that this lead to more riders being off the bikes than before, but it follows no pattern. All are made from the same mold, and some riders sit on bikes, some are off bikes. We found a few with bend legs. These are the ones that Stronghold refers to as to fix with hot water. What we do not know at this time is if the riders have fallen off because they have bend legs, or if they have bend legs because they were off the bikes and got bend during transport.

We have addressed the issue to the factory in China and asked to check which changes can be made to find a better balance between riders staying on the bike but still fall off before being broken.

Here is what I take from all of this:
You would have liked a thicker box - I understand that. I don't see that as necessary based on my experience, but that does not make your opinion any less valid.
You would have liked a different insert - I think the insert works well and people have put thought into the design. I am sorry you don't feel it is adequate.
You have issues with storing the components inside the game - I must admit that I cannot understand that. It seems quite okay to me. What I did with my copy was to put the long tracks back in the frames, but the rest was stored perfectly beneath those boards.
You had a package of cards that was open - I apologize, I have no explanation. That a deck becomes unwrapped inside a sealed box is really rare. I have not heard that before, and I am sorry, your game must have been subject to some serious abuse before you safed and opened it.

Thank you for your comments and thank you even more for the constructive way we can discuss these things, even when we do not always agree. Your feedback to us is valuable. Here in the factory we make dozens of small decisions on material, set up, production methods all the time. Some can have an impact on the final product, and hardly any decision is without consequences in other areas. 99% of those will never be visible, but sometimes they are. On those cases feedback we get will be used to make future products better.

Best regards
Frank Jaeger
LUDO FACT


Thanks. We will agree to disagree on the box weight and my other points.

Storage. 190 playing cards, 21 track pieces, and 4 player boards get tossed into an "open space". It's ok, I guess. I gently stack everything and gently put it on the shelf but... (It doesnt really fit very well). I can certainly show you other games at the $60 price point where components are secured. Also, I think I've found at least four people here on bgg with downloadable PDFs so that one can make their own card boxes. That, to me, speaks to an issue more than aesthetics. I mean, 190 cards just loose in a box seems odd to me. The insert doesn't do much. (Mine was slightly torn, by the way).

It's a fun one. Played four times this past weekend and lost every time. Still fun
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David Hamilton
Australia
Byford
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I have all of the same issue listed above.

Fantastic game. Love it to pieces. But speaking of pieces....
- My game box arrived in perfect condition, not a dent or scratch on the box.
- 5 of my 8 riders were dismantled when the game arrived (even though they were in the little plastic holder)
- 3 of my riders cannot be picked up without the rider falling off
- The rulebook got crushed during transport at some stage. I have had to iron it out a bit, its readable just not pretty.
- That insert. Wow. It looks pretty but so FLIMSY. Mine arrived crushed and already torn.

As mentioned, great game but whoever was in charge of packing the contents and securing the riders down really needs a boot up the arse.
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