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Talisman (Revised 4th Edition)» Forums » General

Subject: Questions about the Random Spell and the Tinkerer rss

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Alex F
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We've had a game today with the Gladiator against the Tinkerer and I've got a few questions.

The Gladiator got the Mesmerism spell.

Can he cast it on one of Tinkerer's automated followers, be it Object or Construct, and would these automated followers then increase the Gladiator's Strength in battle as per his special ability?


2)About the Random spell:

does losing Craft or Strength from the Random spell remove all accumulated Strength/Craft counters from the affected character?
This spell is very powerful if so.
 
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Grarrrg Grarrrgowski
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magmaxtic wrote:
The Gladiator got the Mesmerism spell.

Can he cast it on one of Tinkerer's automated followers, be it Object or Construct, and would these automated followers then increase the Gladiator's Strength in battle as per his special ability?


Short answer: No, he cannot cast it on an Automated Follower.

From the FAQ:
"Some cards and special abilities allow characters to take cards as Followers even if the card type is not actually listed as a Follower. For example, the Minstrel’s special ability allows him to charm Animals into joining him as Followers. A character that has these Followers in his play area treats them as normal Followers in all regards, except he cannot choose to ditch them. If another character has an ability that affects Followers, he cannot target a card that has become a Follower. Example: A character cannot cast Mesmerism to take one of the Minstrel’s charmed Animals because it is only considered a Follower to the Minstrel. "

magmaxtic wrote:
Can he cast it on one of Tinkerer's automated followers, be it Object or Construct

Tinkerer's Automated Followers stop being Objects.

magmaxtic wrote:
2)About the Random spell:

does losing Craft or Strength from the Random spell remove all accumulated Strength/Craft counters from the affected character?
This spell is very powerful if so.

EDIT: Yes, all.
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Alex F
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Thanks. I've found another thread that asks about the Random spell's stat loss, and it seems to suggest that you lose all accumulated stats.
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/409067/random-spell-stat-lo...

I've been wondering if there is a misprint on the card. However, there's an asterisk next to the lose Strength/Craft clauses on the spell, which states:

Lose Strength/Craft* (note that it doesn't specify a number)
*All , but those gained from Objects and Followers.

Either way, I think we would houserule that you can lose 1 point of accumulated stats from this spell, as it's simply unfair if interpreted otherwise.

Also, I seem to recall a few card effects that can cause a loss of more than one point of Strength/Craft.
 
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Grarrrg Grarrrgowski
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magmaxtic wrote:
Thanks. I've found another thread that asks about the Random spell's stat loss, and it seems to suggest that you lose all accumulated stats.

That's what I get for trying to go from memory...yes, it does appear to be ALL.
Previous response has been edited.

magmaxtic wrote:
Either way, I think we would houserule that you can lose 1 point of accumulated stats from this spell, as it's simply unfair if interpreted otherwise.

There's actually quite a few things in Talisman that are "simply unfair". At least the Random spell can never kill you.

If you're playing straight up BI version, then yes, Random can happen fairly often, and there's little you can do to stop it.

If you're playing FF version there's always Fate for rerolls.
If you're playing FF version with any number of expansions, then it gets progressively less likely that it will show up at all.
 
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Chris Smith
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I would never nerf the random spell personally. The crafty characters need a few scary spells in the deck (Random, Mesmerism, Finger of Death, Acquisition, etc.) to compete with the strong characters, which have other advantages, such as pvp combat and an easier path through the inner region. It's usually easier to gain strength trophies too, though this is more balanced in 4th edition than it was in 2nd.

Cheers!

Chris
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marcin marcinek
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grarrrg wrote:

Tinkerer's Automated Followers stop being Objects.
But, following the logic of FAQ, don't they stop being Objects for the Tinkerer only?
 
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Grarrrg Grarrrgowski
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Szatany wrote:
grarrrg wrote:

Tinkerer's Automated Followers stop being Objects.
But, following the logic of FAQ, don't they stop being Objects for the Tinkerer only?


I honestly don't 100% agree with the FAQ ruling partly because of stuff like the Tinkerer. Things get confusing pretty quickly. Because "it's not a Follower, but it is now, except when it isn't" is anything but intuitive.

I'd rule that you CAN target 'non-follower followers' with stuff like Mesmerism, but that the moment they leave their owner they go *poof* instead.
 
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Alex F
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Thanks for the replies, guys.

I've been thinking , and we'll leave the Random spell as is. It's a rare draw.
We always play with the Cataclysm expansion, and one more randomly selected small box expansion, so the spell doesn't come out often.


The Tinkerer is a very strong character, it seems. His Objects can automatically turn into Followers for him only. He did win yesterday's session, though the game was very close.
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There are a few more weird interactions we've noticed regarding the Acquisition and Mesmerism spells in 2 -player games with the Gypsy.


I think it's safe to houserule that the Gypsy cannot take the Acquisition or Mesmerism spells from the discard pile after they were cast on her by another character.

Since she'll be able to reverse the effect of the spell, and take the stolen Object/Follower back on a later turn.

The only way to counter her special ability would be to to ditch the stolen Object or Follower on the same turn.

Any thoughts about this?
 
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Aaron Tubb
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The Tinkerer is very strong. His ability effectly makes his objects unstealable, either by spell or combat. And he can have any number of them. Only Adventure card effects that make you discard followers can really affect him (e.g. Cursed by a Hag).

magmaxtic wrote:
There are a few more weird interactions we've noticed regarding the Acquisition and Mesmerism spells in 2 -player games with the Gypsy.


I think it's safe to houserule that the Gypsy cannot take the Acquisition or Mesmerism spells from the discard pile after they were cast on her by another character.

Since she'll be able to reverse the effect of the spell, and take the stolen Object/Follower back on a later turn.

The only way to counter her special ability would be to to ditch the stolen Object or Follower on the same turn.

Any thoughts about this?

You can houserule anything you want, but I don't think the Gypsy is overpowered compared to other characters or anything. Taking spells off of the discard is her main ability, and in the case of Mesmerism and Acquisition, I think it makes sense. It goes along with the storytelling trope of a curse of a vengeful Gypsy.
 
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Alex F
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Well, the Gypsy can also choose not to be affected by Events. I think she's pretty strong.

Though I'm guessing this only applies to Events that directly affect characters, and not just the board as a whole, right?
 
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Chris Smith
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Gipsy might be a bit too strong, or at least too frustrating to play against in a two player game. I usually play with at least three, where the Gipsy is a good character, but not overpowered. At least there is another target for her revenge spells.

Cheers!

Chris
 
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Grarrrg Grarrrgowski
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magmaxtic wrote:
Well, the Gypsy can also choose not to be affected by Events. I think she's pretty strong.

Though I'm guessing this only applies to Events that directly affect characters, and not just the board as a whole, right?


Correct.
She is immune to Character-affecting events, but Events that mess with the Board/decks/etc... still happen as normal.
 
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David "Davy" Ashleydale
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Since special followers aren't affected by everything that effects followers, I wish they had called them something else. Like, give the Tinkerer the ability to turn his objects into "Automatons".

I like that the Gypsy can take spells that people cast at her -- Syphon Craft from her and she'll just Syphon it back. It just means that you have to use other strategies against her, which is fun.
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