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Subject: Question about natives riding horses rss

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Mark W
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Does a native riding a horse continue to use the horse's maneuver speed during a round in which the horse was killed? I can elaborate, with a more detailed explanation and Realmspeak screen cap, if what I'm saying sounds abnormal. If it sounds normal, then ok.

OK a brief explanation: I'm playing on Realmspeak and Guard HQ killed Patrol HQ's horse. (Patrol HQ has Move 3 but his horse has Move 5 on their current sides up.) Subsequently, but in the same round, my Captain undercut Patrol HQ with his short sword and a Fight M4 chit. I would've expected it NOT to undercut Patrol HQ's Move of 3, but apparently the now-dead horse's Move 5 is still used according to the log. Is this expected behavior?
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GodRob
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While primarily used for killing vampires, a wooden stake to the heart is also highly effective against most other opponents.
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Yes. That's how character mounts work as well.
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Quantum Jack
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this is correct. the horse movement still applies for the remainder of the round, even if the horse is killed. whether or not the attacks hit is determined already, then you resolve the effects of those attacks in order.

otherwise EVERY attack would automatically hit after a horse was killed, as you don't place a non-horse movement in addition to a horse.
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Jay Richardson
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NeonPeon wrote:
I would've expected it NOT to undercut Patrol HQ's Move of 3, but apparently the now-dead horse's Move 5 is still used according to the log. Is this expected behavior?

Yes.

If an individual begins a round of combat riding on a horse, then the horse's move will apply throughout the entire round, even if the horse is killed.

Here's designer Richard Hamblen's explanation (he's actually talking about the Optional Combat Rules here, but this also applies to the basic game combat rules as well).

Richard Hamblen wrote:
The answer is: the horse's speed still affects the blow even if it was killed earlier that round.

The formalism of the rule is that everyone:

1st – reveals plays,

2nd – calculates speeds of attacks and defenses, and their interaction,

3rd – resolves attacks in appropriate order (i.e. length or time), using the interactions calculated in step 2 above.

In other words, nothing during the resolution phase can affect the interaction of the timing of the attacks and defenses. Events during the resolution phase can affect the results (by killing an attacker or damaging armor), but not by changing the timing.

The rationale for this is simple: the horse's movement has already affected the incoming attack by the time the horse is actively killed, so the horse's effect cannot be retroactively removed by killing the horse later in the phase. That would be time travel, which is a different game entirely.

------
Reference:

Using the Optional Combat Rules
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/183032/using-optional-comba...
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Richard Mitchell
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Was this the first round of combat? Im guessing it was because if the Guard HQ hit first with a slower time, he did so because his reach ( weapon length ) is greater than that of the short-sword wielding Captain. So if thats the case ...

All attacks levied against the Patrol HQ are resolved against his horses maneuver direction and time. For multiple attacks, in this case the Guard HQ and the Captain have different attack times which makes a difference here. The Guard Im assuming intercepted the horses maneuver and the Guard is light side up? having a speed of 5 and and doing H* harm to the medium armored horse, killing it. Then the Captains strike hits ( still directed at the horses maneuver, but since its dead, inflicts his harm on the Patrol HQ.

Now if this isn't the first round , the Captain should've hit first with a time of 4 vs the guards time of 5 ... again assuming he's light side up ....

But in general if multiple blows hit a natives horse and they have different speeds, they are resolved in order of hit, and once the horse is dead the others carry over to the rider and inflict their harm. If the attacks have the same speed, they all hit the horse. Check out 8.4.9.i The rider uses the horses maneuver throughout the entire round, whether killed or not.

See Jays answer above, no time travel


-Richard
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Mark W
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Thank you all for the prompt and informative replies!
 
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Mark W
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realfist wrote:
Was this the first round of combat? Im guessing it was because if the Guard HQ hit first with a slower time, he did so because his reach ( weapon length ) is greater than that of the short-sword wielding Captain. So if thats the case ...

All attacks levied against the Patrol HQ are resolved against his horses maneuver direction and time. For multiple attacks, in this case the Guard HQ and the Captain have different attack times which makes a difference here. The Guard Im assuming intercepted the horses maneuver and the Guard is light side up? having a speed of 5 and and doing H* harm to the medium armored horse, killing it. Then the Captains strike hits ( still directed at the horses maneuver, but since its dead, inflicts his harm on the Patrol HQ.

Now if this isn't the first round , the Captain should've hit first with a time of 4 vs the guards time of 5 ... again assuming he's light side up ....

But in general if multiple blows hit a natives horse and they have different speeds, they are resolved in order of hit, and once the horse is dead the others carry over to the rider and inflict their harm. If the attacks have the same speed, they all hit the horse. Check out 8.4.9.i The rider uses the horses maneuver throughout the entire round, whether killed or not.

See Jays answer above, no time travel


-Richard

Yes it was the first round. Also the first turn. I hired the Guard as the Captain when the Patrol showed up. We're supposed to be buddies (Friendly) but I had this irresistible urge to hack them to bits...

And yes you are correct about this: "The Guard Im assuming intercepted the horses maneuver and the Guard is light side up? "

Thanks for the reply!
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Mark W
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Since this generated some discussion, what the hay, I'll post the screen cap...

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Mark W
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richfam wrote:

In other words, nothing during the resolution phase can affect the interaction of the timing of the attacks and defenses.


I appreciate this as a general principle.
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Mark W
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Quantum_Jack wrote:
otherwise EVERY attack would automatically hit after a horse was killed, as you don't place a non-horse movement in addition to a horse.

Good point!
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