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Subject: Still 100% luck rss

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Joe Bowers
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Although the game got rid of player elimination and shortened the playtime, it is still roll and move, therefore 100% luck. Any decisions you get to make in this game are complete no-brainers. Adding some cards #1-6 to each player at the start of the game and being able to use them instead of rolling the die (getting 1 or 2 cards back when you pass GO) would have been a big step towards making this an actual game.
 
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Bill Cook
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Haven't played this yet, but since the original Monopoly is *far* from 100% luck, I don't see how this could be "still" 100% luck.
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Joe Bowers
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EMBison wrote:
Haven't played this yet, but since the original Monopoly is *far* from 100% luck, I don't see how this could be "still" 100% luck.

Is this sarcasm? There is a reason Monopoly is famous for its high luck factor and Monopoly is the reason why modern board games do not use "roll and move" anymore. You are completely at the mercy of the dice in the original version of Monopoly. Constantly land on peoples stuff instead of available properties? You lose. Get a full Monopoly early without having to trade for it, and people land it = Win.
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Brandon Holmes
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Monopoly Gamer is not 100% luck but it's a huge factor along with the take that actions. Other than choosing who to target with some actions, it's almost always plainly obvious what to do for anyone other than a young child. Not many interesting decisions here. Plus in a 3 or 4 player game you can easily pile on someone and/or king make.

I suspect most games will play out the same: players self-balance for the majority of the game and then near the end someone gets lucky and takes the win (or steals a win by kingmaking). I won and I felt bad as I know it's only because I got some lucky rolls at the end (was hoping my 5 year old would win as he was handling the take that actions against him so maturely). I in no way felt I did anything better/smarter than the other players.

I like the game as a kids game only and will keep it for now, but it's undeserving of the hype. Maybe Party Mode will make it more interesting for me but I don't see this being a keeper as my kids get older.
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Bill Buchanan
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I'm not sure what people were expecting. Light, quick, fun, family game.
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Johannes Blank
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It's not exactly a strategy game for sure. I don't really understand why it's so hyped right now, but I guess some people just want a light (random/luck-based) game around some Nintendo characters. Why not, I guess.
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Jim McMahon
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Topdecker577 wrote:
There is a reason Monopoly is famous for its high luck factor and Monopoly is the reason why modern board games do not use "roll and move" anymore.
Citation needed.
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Bill Cook
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Topdecker577 wrote:
Is this sarcasm? There is a reason Monopoly is famous for its high luck factor and Monopoly is the reason why modern board games do not use "roll and move" anymore. You are completely at the mercy of the dice in the original version of Monopoly.


I'm aware that many boardgame geeks feel this way. I disagree. Played according to the rules and with good players, there is a ton of strategy in Monopoly. The idea that it is 100% luck; nothing more than Snakes and Ladders is bonkers.

Sorry to have hijacked the Monopoly Gamer thread... back to discussion.
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Gavan Brown
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There are no (or very few) real decisions in the game, but that doesn't mean there aren't many moments of fun. For me it was like watching sports: you aren't involved in whether your team wins, but that doesn't mean it's not exciting to watch.
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Daniel Devine
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RoosterJuice wrote:
There are no (or very few) real decisions in the game, but that doesn't mean there aren't many moments of fun. For me it was like watching sports: you aren't involved in whether your team wins, but that doesn't mean it's not exciting to watch.


Well put Gavan, sometimes it's just fun to watch something out of your control. I played last night and my love of Mario Party and Mario Kart drove me to really get into it. Was it a brain burner or challenging, not at all, but it was fun. Watching my friend throw down his last 5 coins to win the boss fight was highly entertaining to watch.

Basically, everyone on this thread is right for their own reasons, that's what opinions are. I for example, never want to play Power Grid again in my life, it just wasn't for me even though I can see how well designed it is.

If you want complete control, there are thousands of games for that. If you want a kooky light weight roll & move, you could do a whole lot worse than Monopoly Gamer.
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Arnaldo Horta Jr
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RoosterJuice wrote:
There are no (or very few) real decisions in the game, but that doesn't mean there aren't many moments of fun. For me it was like watching sports: you aren't involved in whether your team wins, but that doesn't mean it's not exciting to watch.


Let's preface this with the fact that I HATE Monopoly. However, when played properly it has a number of real decisions. The problem is that almost no one who plays with the correct rules....

1) Free parking is just that...free parking.
2) If you land on a space and don't want it, it goes up for auction...and you can bid in the auction. Therefore, you should almost never pay full price for a property unless you really want it.

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Pedro Silva
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Diarmud wrote:
1) Free parking is just that...free parking.
2) If you land on a space and don't want it, it goes up for auction...and you can bid in the auction. Therefore, you should almost never pay full price for a property unless you really want it.



Aaannnnddddd... That's it.
These make a difference but do not create any kind of strategy in Monopoly. It is still a game of luck whether you play with the "correct rules" and "good players" (whatever they are in Monopoly) or not.

You can't decide on what properties you will land so you can't really define a plan (strategy). You must deal with whatever the dice throw at you. You can't even plan for your next move, let alone make a long term plan of any kind.

There is no strategy in Monopoly. There may be some tactics on given random situations but there is no way to make a plan. Not even a short one...

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Scott Seifert
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There are regular tournaments for the game, with regular winners. There are entire books written on strategy. It is plain ignorance to say Monopoly has no strategy when the evidence is right there.

If you don't make trades, then of course whoever rolls best will win. Few people are able to play Monopoly seriously enough to mitigate the luck factor (because Monopoly is still a boring game and better options exist for people who want to make deals), but don't insult the people who do take the game seriously by saying it's all chance.
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Gavan Brown
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Quote:
There are entire books written on strategy.


Ummm...

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Scott Seifert
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I don't see how a joke in a chapter full of said jokes discredits an entire book.
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Kevin Blackburn
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I suppose cheating is a strategy..
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Gavan Brown
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golden_cow2 wrote:
I don't see how a joke in a chapter full of said jokes discredits an entire book.


What would you say is the most interesting strategic advice in this book?
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Bill Cook
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Mallgur wrote:
Aaannnnddddd... That's it.
These make a difference but do not create any kind of strategy in Monopoly. It is still a game of luck whether you play with the "correct rules" and "good players" (whatever they are in Monopoly) or not.

You can't decide on what properties you will land so you can't really define a plan (strategy). You must deal with whatever the dice throw at you. You can't even plan for your next move, let alone make a long term plan of any kind.

There is no strategy in Monopoly. There may be some tactics on given random situations but there is no way to make a plan. Not even a short one...



First play of the game you land on Connecticut. Do you buy it? Why or why not? It comes up for auction.. how much are you willing to pay? How can you answer those questions without a strategy?

Monopoly is a game of auctions, trades and set collection. These continue to be the cornerstones of "modern" games. Knizia has made a good living recycling them over and over.

Basic strategy choices in Monopoly.. do you play "fast and narrow" going after one set hard, or do you spread yourself around and keep your options open? Do you spend your limited resources on less valuable things early or do you wait until more valuable things are available later. How much of your resources do you spend on things that will help you vs taking things to block your opponents from getting them? Do you spend everything now, or hold some back in reserve? Are you willing to engage in trades that help you, but help your trading partner more? Do you go after things that won't directly help you win, but can help you get other things and those other things can help you win?

You want to know what good players are in Monopoly? Players who are asking these questions and have a strategy.

Then there are tactics. In addition to the auction/trading tactics, there are the key issues of building and borrowing. When do you build? What do you build? How much do you build? Can you corner the housing market? When do you mortgage properties to build?
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Scott Seifert
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RoosterJuice wrote:
golden_cow2 wrote:
I don't see how a joke in a chapter full of said jokes discredits an entire book.

What would you say is the most interesting strategic advice in this book?


Aside from the tips for "normal" play and player psychology, most relevant to the thread about chance would be the use of options (paying someone for unowned property which they must sell to you if they land on it), insurance (letting someone land on your stuff for free as a bargaining tool), and partnerships (revenue sharing deals for when you can't collect an entire group by yourself).
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Pete Sellers
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Topdecker577 wrote:
Although the game got rid of player elimination and shortened the playtime, it is still roll and move, therefore 100% luck. Any decisions you get to make in this game are complete no-brainers. Adding some cards #1-6 to each player at the start of the game and being able to use them instead of rolling the die (getting 1 or 2 cards back when you pass GO) would have been a big step towards making this an actual game.


So... what were you expecting? The game is supposed to be fun, not a strategic brain burner. Clearly you're not the target audience, so I'm not sure I understand your need to crap all over the game.

Also, Monopoly is not 100% luck. Honestly, you don't know what you're talking about. There is luck, yes, but there is more to it than that.
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Christopher
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golden_cow2 wrote:
RoosterJuice wrote:
golden_cow2 wrote:
I don't see how a joke in a chapter full of said jokes discredits an entire book.

What would you say is the most interesting strategic advice in this book?


Aside from the tips for "normal" play and player psychology, most relevant to the thread about chance would be the use of options (paying someone for unowned property which they must sell to you if they land on it), insurance (letting someone land on your stuff for free as a bargaining tool), and partnerships (revenue sharing deals for when you can't collect an entire group by yourself).


Aren't those all house rules?
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Gavan Brown
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Quote:
First play of the game you land on Connecticut. Do you buy it? Why or why not?


I think it's pretty transparent that all players should always buy all properties. I feel this is a false decision.

Quote:
Aside from the tips for "normal" play and player psychology, most relevant to the thread about chance would be the use of options (paying someone for unowned property which they must sell to you if they land on it), insurance (letting someone land on your stuff for free as a bargaining tool), and partnerships (revenue sharing deals for when you can't collect an entire group by yourself).


Most groups would not allow such actions to occur. Just as most groups would not not allow players to give away wood to other players in Agricola.

I guess if your group allows all games to be played like werewolf, all games that have any sort of resource gathering have an unlimited amount of strategy related to human manipulation.

One thing I read in this book that I could consider some level of strategy related to the actual game rules is to only build houses when someone is 6-8 spaces from that property group.

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Scott Seifert
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Monopoly's rules, especially circa 1975, are vague enough in their wording to allow it. The author makes a justification for each.

Even with today's ruleset there's nothing preventing complicated bargains -- the important point is that collecting rent is not mandatory. A player can deliberately "fail to ask for it" if he worked out an agreement with someone in advance. Whether or not these deals could be considered binding I don't know.

RoosterJuice wrote:
I guess if your group allows all games to be played like werewolf, all games that have any sort of resource gathering have an unlimited amount of strategy related to human manipulation.

That's like saying Diplomacy has no strategy if you ignore all rules that allow players to make deals.

Your comparison to Agricola is completely unfair. The rules for trading are laid out in the Monopoly rulebook, albeit very poorly worded. It is also completely in the spirit of the game, subtitled "the real estate trading game", for trading to be allowed.
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Gavan Brown
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golden_cow2 wrote:
Even with today's ruleset there's nothing preventing complicated bargains


Most euro games don't explicitly prevent deal making, bargaining, diplomacy or sharing of resources either.

Valid Monopoly Strategy: "Give me park place now, or I'll go outside and slash your tires"
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Scott Seifert
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RoosterJuice wrote:
golden_cow2 wrote:
Even with today's ruleset there's nothing preventing complicated bargains


Most euro games don't explicitly prevent deal making, bargaining, diplomacy or sharing of resources either.

Valid Monopoly Strategy: "Give me park place now, or I'll go outside and slash your tires"

Again, I'm not sure why you're bringing up completely unrelated games when the rules for Monopoly are publicly available and explicitly allow "deal making, bargaining, diplomacy or sharing of resources." "Slashing someone's tires" is not a legal action in the game whereas trading money and property clearly is.
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