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Subject: Such a sad game... rss

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H.M. Woggle-Bug, T.E.
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How can anybody enjoy this theme? Have you ever visited a Bärenpark? It is such a sad thing to see, that these animals have to be sheltered and protected behind fences, because there is no place for them in Germany. Any free bear is a "Problembär" - even if it is shy of human settlements - and will get shot.

It takes a very special perception of the world to enjoy this. Survival in captivity is just a less terrible option than extinction.

yuk
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Wally West
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I was typing a silly response talking about how these majestic godless killing machines deserve more respect than a simple boardgame... but I felt it would only detract from a good discussion.

"It takes a very special perception of the world to enjoy this. Survival in captivity is just a less terrible option than extinction."

Dude, I've visited a number of Zoos in Europe and the United States. Honestly they very in quality, but the best of them exceed expectations. For the sake of education and continuing efforts to save these species they are a practical way to raise awareness, educate the public and allow children to see and understand these animals/our place in the world. There are professionals in good institutions whom have made serious gains in helping these animals both in captivity and in the wild over the last few decades. These institutions are their vector to the public. Please don't belittle their contributions and as always I advise you save your patronage for only the facilities that meet your ethical standards.

I think its a fine game, the theme is acceptable and its execution & balance is outstanding.

As (obviously) a sick b*stard with a "very special perception of the world"... I would argue survival in captivity and raising public awareness is the first step in avoiding extinction.

Its no less deplorable than Memoir 44's depiction of violence or any zombie game.



But while I am on the topic...

I do feel they missed an opportunity to have a second half of the game where the bears escape captivity and you have to guide your nuclear family out of the park Fearsome Floors stile against a horde of vengeful man eating bears! (Drawn by The Oatmeal)
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WallyTWest wrote:

For the sake of education and continuing efforts to save these species they are a practical way to raise awareness, educate the public and allow children to see and understand these animals/our place in the world.

So when you visit the Zoo with your kids, you tell them that these animals are held in captivity in unnatural conditions, as they would be killed by humans outside, either because of fear, greed of pleasure?

WallyTWest wrote:

These institutions are their vector to the public.

Just like theaters are a vector to the public in times of mass media and internet.

WallyTWest wrote:

Its no less deplorable than Memoir 44's depiction of violence or any zombie game.

Agree. It's no more adorable.
Bärenpark is not aimed at "let god sort em' out"-type of wargamers. It clearly aims at happy-type gamers, selling them a tragedy as source of amusement. You think the typical Bärenpark-customer would play a game about building the most efficient prison?

WallyTWest wrote:

Dude, I've visited a number of Zoos in Europe and the United States. Honestly they very in quality, but the best of them exceed expectations.

Dude, you should see natures majestic creatures in their natural habitats. This would surely alter your expectations.


WallyTWest wrote:

As (obviously) a sick b*stard with a "very special perception of the world"... I do feel they missed an opportunity to have a second half of the game where the bears escape captivity and you have to guide your nuclear family out of the park Fearsome Floors stile against a horde of vengeful man eating bears! (Drawn by The Oatmeal)

Stupor mundi.



There is no denying that some parks are doing a very valuable service by giving endangered species a habitat. A few month ago I visited a famed Bärenpark in Switzerland. I do not know, if they are doing a valuable service, but it was a sad sight nonetheless.

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Kerstin
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livio wrote:
You think the typical Bärenpark-customer would play a game about building the most efficient prison?


Sure, especially now that it is on 75% sale on Steam: http://store.steampowered.com/app/233450/Prison_Architect/
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I really enjoy this game a lot! I also enjoy The Downfall of Pompeii (real human lives were lost), Memoir '44 & a plethora of other games that have simulated real life and I am no monster.

If I were to support the actual bear parks by either going to them or sending them money then the OPs original post may have some weight otherwise it's does not.

rather than posting here about a little board game why not support PETA:
https://www.peta.org/
This would be far more helpful than posting on BGG
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H.M. Woggle-Bug, T.E.
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It is always such a pleasure to have a discussion with intelligent people.

BTW, I did not accuse anyone of being a monster because of the games they play (being a seasonded wargamer myself). As long as it is a virtual thing, like a board-/videogame, go ahead...

What I criticize is the hypocricy and cynicizm of this game's theme. Enough other games that could be critized for that. This one just happens to be on The Hotness (judging from the reviews, it will not be for long. It seems to be popular just because of the bear-theme). So it's a random, but totally legit target that I picked for my amusement, of course.

Talking of hypocracy: I absolutely agree with your call to support organizations like PETA, Greenpeace, etc. I do. Do you? What will you tell your children?
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ovis wrote:
livio wrote:
You think the typical Bärenpark-customer would play a game about building the most efficient prison?


Sure, especially now that it is on 75% sale on Steam: http://store.steampowered.com/app/233450/Prison_Architect/


Not surprising coming from someone who thinks Pandemic has a "very nice" theme.

Let's talk about detachment.
 
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livio wrote:

Let's talk about detachment.


Sure, let's. I actually very much like playing Pandemic with a friend and collegue of mine from a neighbouring lab that has spend several months in Sierra Leone during the last years, where he was analysing samples of people suspected to be infected with ebola. And we actually talked quiet a bit about his time there while playing. So sure, let's talk about detachment. meeple
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Samuel Hinz
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PETA is a joke. They've lost touch with reality
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Claudio Coppini
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I totally agree with the OP.

I was so surprised when I heard about this game, I mean...there surely must have been hundreds of different themes that could have gone with this mechanics, why choosing this one?!

For par condicio the designer should have at least given the possibility to the bears to maul the park crew in-game.

But yeah, in the end I believe everybody is free to create a game with whatever theme/content they want, I'm just as surprised as the OP as to how so many people are enjoying this.
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ovis wrote:
livio wrote:

Let's talk about detachment.


Sure, let's. I actually very much like playing Pandemic with a friend and collegue of mine from a neighbouring lab that has spend several months in Sierra Leone during the last years, where he was analysing samples of people suspected to be infected with ebola. And we actually talked quiet a bit about his time there while playing. So sure, let's talk about detachment. meeple


So you talked to someone... who has not?

As a person with medical background you know that a decent amount of emotional detachment is almost a requirement. Especially true for surgeons, btw. Definitely true for my dentist.

So does your friend agree that Pandemic has a "very nice" theme?
 
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abodi wrote:
...They've lost touch with reality


So, what about the Flying Spaghetti Monster?
 
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livio wrote:
It is always such a pleasure to have a discussion with intelligent people.

BTW, I did not accuse anyone of being a monster because of the games they play (being a seasonded wargamer myself). As long as it is a virtual thing, like a board-/videogame, go ahead...

What I criticize is the hypocricy and cynicizm of this game's theme. Enough other games that could be critized for that. This one just happens to be on The Hotness (judging from the reviews, it will not be for long. It seems to be popular just because of the bear-theme). So it's a random, but totally legit target that I picked for my amusement, of course.

Talking of hypocracy: I absolutely agree with your call to support organizations like PETA, Greenpeace, etc. I do. Do you? What will you tell your children?


It was a suggestion for you (PETA), I never said I was agreed with you about animals in distress (or otherwise). For "amusement"? I'd consider that "trolling"

Thanks!
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So, no one thinks the game would be a chance to create a better park to possibly change how they're done now? Or is this a thread about "all zoos are bad"?
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FunkyBlue wrote:
So, no one thinks the game would be a chance to create a better park to possibly change how they're done now? Or is this a thread about "all zoos are bad"?


It's just a thread about being surprised at how many people enjoy this game without (probably) considering the sad truth behind it. Who knows, it might lead to people getting interested in this issue, so well done to the OP.
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killerjoe1962 wrote:

It was a suggestion for you (PETA), I never said I was agreed with you about animals in distress (or otherwise). For "amusement"? I'd consider that "trolling"

Thanks!


Me PETA? What have I got to do with PETA? I have no connections to them and never supported them in any way. I never claimed I did. Although I sympathize with some of their actions.

Trolling can be just as amusing as playing "nice" games about animals in captivity or pandemics killing thousands of people. And it's definitely more honest.
 
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FunkyBlue wrote:
So, no one thinks the game would be a chance to create a better park to possibly change how they're done now? Or is this a thread about "all zoos are bad"?


It's a thread about "all zoos are bad."

I can't imagine how the OP feels about all those video games where you walking around blasting people.
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Well, I love zoos, so thanks to the OP for bringing the game to my attention!
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livio wrote:
Trolling can be just as amusing as playing "nice" games about animals in captivity or pandemics killing thousands of people. And it's definitely more honest.


Sorry but I don't see how this theme can be associated with Pandemic (or any other game that depicts tragedy and/or violence by humans/zombie/monsters/viruses toward humans).

Here we are talking about humans deliberately limiting the freedom of other animals, and the problem is that we (players) play as the captors. I don't see the sadness/cruelty of playing as humans trying to defend themselves from a virus.
 
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livio wrote:

So does your friend agree that Pandemic has a "very nice" theme?


Yes, he does. That is if you define "very nice" theme for a game as something that is interesting and enjoyable to play. To me that usually means themes that are not found in every other game and my personal preference are probably themes that are more grounded in the real world, with science fiction themes e.g. being more on the science than the fiction side or even themes that deal with more mundane things.

And I feel every game that touches on real world scenarios can be a sensitive thing to certain people, surely anything with a "medical" theme is, but looking at some other top spots of the family game list: just farming games where family members can starve to death because of a bad harvest or bad hunting or I'm sure racing games with cute horses or camels might be something PETA members wouldn't be happy with either. Or Sushi Go which never really mentions if that fish is from eco-friendly fishing or the working conditions of all those diamond miners in Splendor which also can be a sensitive topic.
So I just find it curious that Bärenpark suddenly is the one to be sad about.
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Race Bannon wrote:


It's a thread about "all zoos are bad."

I can't imagine how the OP feels about all those video games where you walking around blasting people.


No, it's a thread about a game that sells a really sad subject as a happy theme for a family friendly game.

There are very few games, that suggest walking around and blasting innocent people is acceptable. Those are usually discussed very controversially in the public (like the infamous airport scene in a CoD game a few years ago). So, why not discuss boardgames in the same manner?

 
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ovis wrote:
Yes, he does. That is if you define "very nice" theme for a game as something that is interesting and enjoyable to play. To me that usually means themes that are not found in every other game and my personal preference are probably themes that are more grounded in the real world, with science fiction themes e.g. being more on the science than the fiction side or even themes that deal with more mundane things.


So, imagine that an amazing new euro game comes out with super innovative and well designed mechanics that brings a revolution to the board game industry, fantastic gameplay all around, however in the game players manage a slave trade. Would that be a very nice theme?

Quote:

And I feel every game that touches on real world scenarios can be a sensitive thing to certain people, surely anything with a "medical" theme is, but looking at some other top spots of the family game list: just farming games where family members can starve to death because of a bad harvest or bad hunting or I'm sure racing games with cute horses or camels might be something PETA members wouldn't be happy with either. Or Sushi Go which never really mentions if that fish is from eco-friendly fishing or the working conditions of all those diamond miners in Splendor which also can be a sensitive topic.
So I just find it curious that Bärenpark suddenly is the one to be sad about.


I agree with the horse racing and sushi games analogy, even though the problematic issue behind those themes is more subtle.

In regard to farming etc., again, we're talking about a theme where we (humans) are the object of tragedy/violence. Is it more sad to play a human character who brings violence to others (in particular animals, which can't do much in response of course), or somebody who is victim of tragedy/violence?
 
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Drugo81 wrote:
livio wrote:
Trolling can be just as amusing as playing "nice" games about animals in captivity or pandemics killing thousands of people. And it's definitely more honest.


Sorry but I don't see how this theme can be associated with Pandemic (or any other game that depicts tragedy and/or violence by humans/zombie/monsters/viruses toward humans).

Here we are talking about humans deliberately limiting the freedom of other animals, and the problem is that we (players) play as the captors. I don't see the sadness/cruelty of playing as humans trying to defend themselves from a virus.


Totally agree with your analysis.

The sad thing about a game like pandemic is the delightful tingle of remote horror that draws players to the game of pandemic. Thousands suffering terribly is totally excitingas long as it does not happen in your personal sphere.
Of course players are the "good" guys, pretending to "save" the world. But the fun in the theme is the fear and suffering of those you are not related to.

Wargames are so much more honest.

But, again, you are right that we are getting of topic here.
 
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ovis wrote:
Or Sushi Go which never really mentions if that fish is from eco-friendly fishing


FYI: As the seas are notoriously overfished there is hardly such a thing as eco-friendly fishing (according to Greenpeace) and the main cause for this indeed Sushi.
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ovis wrote:
or the working conditions of all those diamond miners in Splendor which also can be a sensitive topic.
So I just find it curious that Bärenpark suddenly is the one to be sad about.


Splendor is not titled "Blutdiamand" or "Zwangsarbeit". Also, it is not on the Hotness, I think?
 
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