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Subject: Pilot Powers rss

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Jonathan Abbott
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How exactly are the different levels of Pilot Powers supposed to work? I don't have any problem understanding the powers themselves, but I can find anything in the rule book that says when you get your level 2 or 3 power, or heck even when you get your level 1. Are they all in play the whole game? Do they unlock when the ships on them come off? Am I missing something in the rule book?
 
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Carrie K
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In a 2 player game, you start with all 3 level 1 ships.
In a 3 or 4 player game, you start with 2 of your level 1 ships.
(Page 3, bullet point 3)
In a 1 player game, you choose which player count rules you will play.
(Page 3, prior to bullet point 1)
You gain reinforcements (aka more ships) as you take damage. Look at the health track and you will see icons on certain spaces (it's slightly different on the two different sides). These indicate when reinforcements are sent in. Each time your health marker reaches or passes one of those icons, each player gains another ship, starting with the lowest level ships. Those ships become active in the next round & your ships can be flipped in whatever order you choose. Hope that helps!
(See page 8 in the rule book.)
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Carrie K
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Or are you not clear on the fact that the 3 different ship designs go with the 3 different powers? This picture from the rule book shows each ship type with its corresponding power level. At the beginning of the game, the ships (other than your starting ships) go on the corresponding pilot cards. When your reinforcements include a level 2 ship, it will have the level 2 power (while your level 1 ships will always have the level 1 power). Same for level 3.
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Jonathan Abbott
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At no point in the rule book does it say that a given level ship is the only type with a given type of power, or that you gain access to a level of power based on which ships you have access to in your active ships. That is the assumption that we have made, but it sure feels like a big assumption and that they could have spelled that out clearly.
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Carrie K
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I'm sorry that you feel that way about the rulebook, but I assure you, as the designer's wife, that this is the way it is intended.
The rulebook talks about Level 1 ships being placed on Level 1 pilot cards, as well as referencing the Level 1 powers. You are correct in saying that it doesn't specifically say that the Level 1 powers printed on the Level 1 pilot cards go with the Level 1 ships that are assigned to them.
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Jon Schultz
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We bought this first thing Thursday morning at Gen Con. We are referencing the actual printed rules that shipped with the game.

So the image on page 12 of the rule book shows a Level 1 ship doing a Level 3 power. So while we played it the way the designer's wife described above, the imagery used in the rule book doesn't support this ruling.

Also, can a level 2 ship activate a level 1 power? Because the image on page 11 shows exactly this. Which again, we thought was wrong.

I'll post in a separate thread about how the game punishes you for playing skillfully prior to the Final Assault...
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Lee Fisher
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bootylactin wrote:


I'll post in a separate thread about how the game punishes you for playing skillfully prior to the Final Assault...


Did you post this yet?
 
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Anthony Rubbo
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bootylactin wrote:
I'll post in a separate thread about how the game punishes you for playing skillfully prior to the Final Assault...


Well, the game punishes you for not "skillfully failing", which, I hate HATE in games.
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Jon Schultz
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So I'll just reply here instead of creating the separate thread...

LemonyFresh wrote:

Well, the game punishes you for not "skillfully failing", which, I hate HATE in games.


This is it in a nutshell. When we hit Final Assault, we had only taken enough damage to unlock 4/7 of our ships. So playing well meant we had 12 fewer shots (3 x 4) to take at the mother ship. We literally needed to miss on purpose to take more damage to get more ships for the end game. This felt wrong.

I talked to the person demoing Flip Ships at the Renegade booth the following day at Gen Con. He said it used to be the opposite; the better you did, the more ships you unlocked. But in playtesting, it was too hard and no one was getting extra ships. So they inverted it.

So basically you need to house rule this if your group is good at flipping. Or fail on purpose. Your choice.
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Kane Klenko
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You may have talked to me at Gen Con. I’m not sure. It’s all a blur. That’s sort of correct about the playtesting. It used to work differently in that you had to hit certain cards to get upgrades. There were a few problems with that, but the relevant one here is that new players would get demolished and veteran players would win easily. The way it works now balances the game so that it’s close whether you’re good or not.

The fact that each player only had 4 ships instead of 7 during the Final Assault isn’t a flaw in my mind. You chose to destroy the enemy ships before the mothership, and that’s how it worked out. The Final Assault is there if you need it, but I don’t think of it as the ‘end game’ or as a separate thing. The goal is to destroy the mothership and all of the enemies during the game. Not to destroy all of the enemies and THEN the mothership. That’s one strategy, of course, but in doing that you’re most likely going to limit the number of shots you get during the Final Assault. If you try to balance your hits on the mothership and the enemies during the game you might take more damage, but that will be balanced out by getting more ships. Every group plays differently and can work that balance however they want. It’s not about missing on purpose in order to get more ships. It's about not leaving the mothership until the end, which will likely result in taking more damage along the way. And when it doesn’t, then you bump up to the harder levels and the balance is back.

That said, you’re welcome to house-rule the game in any way you want since the goal is to have fun. But the game is working exactly as I intended it to.


Hope that helps!
-Kane
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Kane Klenko
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It's not about punishing good players. It's about helping players when they need it. If you can win the game with just a few ships, great. It's time to bump up to the harder levels.
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Carrie K
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Another good reason to go after the mother ship throughout the game is the ability to make use of the mothership related pilot powers, which are not usable during the final assault.
 
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Anthony Rubbo
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Realizing that making a great shot just screwed the team out of getting the nice upgraded ships is not fun. Nor is having to strategize against hitting ships depending on the position of the damage marker (especially after MotherShip is already taken care of). And regardless of the intent of the rule, that's what you should be doing if you're trying to win.

Perhaps better would be a steady rollout of the new technology, and leaving difficulty adjustments to changing the start-game state.

The provided ruleset might be at least somewhat more palatable if, at anytime, you could choose to deal as much damage to yourself as you wish.

Fun overall concept, though.
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Kane Klenko
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I guess all I can say is that the game plays exactly how I want it to. This is how I enjoy it, and this is how I want players to experience it. I'm sorry that it didn't work out for you.
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Anthony Rubbo
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Thanks for the replies - no problem, just different philosophies. I am in the camp that thinks the US major league sports draft systems are terrible, but others don't mind.
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AwesomeRobotDavid
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Played it twice last night. We LOVED the idea of having to decide when to go for the mothership during the game. We even toyed with the strategy of letting one more baddie through to unlock extra ships. We ended up with 15 shipa and needed three more hits during the final assault. I got 2 and then we missed 11 in a row and were destroyed. I don't have the rules with me, but are there any restrictions on HOW to flip the ships? 3 different players all used differing styles, including a high arching "flick". Back to back hits at our apartment thanks to Fuse and Flipships. Thank you Kane!
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Carrie K
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Assuming I'm understanding your question correctly, there aren't restrictions on how to flip. Flip with your thumb, flick with your middle finger, go high & arcing (mine often end up in the light fixture!), go low & far, whatever strategy works for you!
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AwesomeRobotDavid
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I think so. I actually flick it with my finger and someone else was using and underhand upwards slap.
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Christian Busch

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Fantastic game!

Questions:

When do pilot powers trigger? In general, it seems like most of them trigger during Resolve Attacks but some exceptions exist (like the power that re-flips after hitting the Mothership).

I have a power that uses the targeting computer card to shoot enemies when I don't land on them. What happens when I have two ships on the same enemy with this power? Can I destroy the enemy with one ship and now that I'm not on an enemy, shoot at another to destroy it? Or since I have landed on an enemy during the Flip Ships phase, that power won't activate during the Resolve Attacks phase?
 
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Richard Dickson
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bootylactin wrote:
We bought this first thing Thursday morning at Gen Con. We are referencing the actual printed rules that shipped with the game.

So the image on page 12 of the rule book shows a Level 1 ship doing a Level 3 power. So while we played it the way the designer's wife described above, the imagery used in the rule book doesn't support this ruling.

Also, can a level 2 ship activate a level 1 power? Because the image on page 11 shows exactly this. Which again, we thought was wrong.


So which is it? Do we go by the illustrations and all ships can use all powers, or can each ship only use the power of its level?
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Carrie K
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Each ship can only use the power of its level.
 
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Christopher Boat
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dipbubs wrote:
Each ship can only use the power of its level.


So the rulebook is misprinted?
 
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Carrie K
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RhodesN7 wrote:
dipbubs wrote:
Each ship can only use the power of its level.


So the rulebook is misprinted?


The image in the rulebook is incorrect, yes.
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Christopher Boat
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dipbubs wrote:
RhodesN7 wrote:
dipbubs wrote:
Each ship can only use the power of its level.


So the rulebook is misprinted?


The image in the rulebook is incorrect, yes.


Two images. One on page 12 and one on page 11. Hopefully this rule can be made clear in future editions of the rulebook, because these pictures are currently the only way to clarify this rule. Thanks for giving us the correct ruling. We played once tonight (using the wrong rules) but still had a blast.
 
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Curt Frantz
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space monkey mafia wrote:
Fantastic game!

Questions:

When do pilot powers trigger? In general, it seems like most of them trigger during Resolve Attacks but some exceptions exist (like the power that re-flips after hitting the Mothership).

I have a power that uses the targeting computer card to shoot enemies when I don't land on them. What happens when I have two ships on the same enemy with this power? Can I destroy the enemy with one ship and now that I'm not on an enemy, shoot at another to destroy it? Or since I have landed on an enemy during the Flip Ships phase, that power won't activate during the Resolve Attacks phase?


Can someone address this? This issue came up in my games as well.
 
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