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Subject: German Crew Weapon Fire Teams rss

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Niko
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Some questions regarding German crew weapons:
1. If a US soldier is in the same hex as two Germans firing a crew weapon they still cannot target him as only one is considered firing and he cannot fire into a hex that another German is in, even if that German is assisting with the crew weapon. Correct or not? Any change to the answer if one of the two Germans is snap firing without the other assisting?
2. If the paragraph for the first active German says to fire the crew weapon and there is a second German in the hex with available actions, do I check the second German's paragraph to see if he is assisting or is that automatic? Any change to the answer if self preservation conditions apply?

I tried to assault an LMG position, which turned out to be difficult for reasons other than anticipated.
The assault itself went surprisingly well since the German's couldn't hit the broad side of a barn, but I'm still questioning if I got the rules for it right.
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Doug
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Quote:
If a US soldier is in the same hex as two Germans firing a crew weapon they still cannot target him as only one is considered firing and he cannot fire into a hex that another German is in, even if that German is assisting with the crew weapon. Correct or not?

According to the rules Section 9: "Neither US nor German soldiers can ever fire into a hex that contains a friendly active soldier unless the shooter and the target are in the same hex." So one of the weapon crew can fire the crew weapon into the hex without concern. Also, don't forget that once the American enters the hex, Self Preservation comes into effect. IIRC, condition S will usually have a crew use their personal weapons as opposed to the crew weapon, but that can vary with missions.

Quote:
Any change to the answer if one of the two Germans is snap firing without the other assisting?

They should do whatever their paragraph tells them to do. If one of the crew is panicked or has no turn left, then the gunner will have to snap fire the crew weapon.

Quote:
2. If the paragraph for the first active German says to fire the crew weapon and there is a second German in the hex with available actions, do I check the second German's paragraph to see if he is assisting or is that automatic? Any change to the answer if self preservation conditions apply?

Rules section 9.7 I think answers your question:
"CREW WEAPON EXAMPLE: Germans S and T are manning a medium machinegun. German T has two turns, while German S has only one. Neither is wounded, and the German cards reveal that S fires the machinegun while T assists. German T’s turn comes first, and T and S fire the machinegun together as an aimed fire. T’s AR marker is moved to the 1-Turn space and S’s AR Marker is moved to the Com-plete space. The fire is then resolved using soldier S’s Weapon Skill. When T uses his second turn, the fire must be a snap fire using T’s Weapon Skill, because only T is firing the weapon."

HTH

Doug
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Niko
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Jammer17 wrote:
Quote:
If a US soldier is in the same hex as two Germans firing a crew weapon they still cannot target him as only one is considered firing and he cannot fire into a hex that another German is in, even if that German is assisting with the crew weapon. Correct or not?

According to the rules Section 9: "Neither US nor German soldiers can ever fire into a hex that contains a friendly active soldier unless the shooter and the target are in the same hex." So one of the weapon crew can fire the crew weapon into the hex without concern. Also, don't forget that once the American enters the hex, Self Preservation comes into effect. IIRC, condition S will usually have a crew use their personal weapons as opposed to the crew weapon, but that can vary with missions.
So the presence of additional Germans other than the firer doesn't have an impact on this, makes sense.

Quote:
Quote:
Any change to the answer if one of the two Germans is snap firing without the other assisting?

They should do whatever their paragraph tells them to do. If one of the crew is panicked or has no turn left, then the gunner will have to snap fire the crew weapon.

Quote:
2. If the paragraph for the first active German says to fire the crew weapon and there is a second German in the hex with available actions, do I check the second German's paragraph to see if he is assisting or is that automatic? Any change to the answer if self preservation conditions apply?

Rules section 9.7 I think answers your question:
"CREW WEAPON EXAMPLE: Germans S and T are manning a medium machinegun. German T has two turns, while German S has only one. Neither is wounded, and the German cards reveal that S fires the machinegun while T assists. German T’s turn comes first, and T and S fire the machinegun together as an aimed fire. T’s AR marker is moved to the 1-Turn space and S’s AR Marker is moved to the Com-plete space. The fire is then resolved using soldier S’s Weapon Skill. When T uses his second turn, the fire must be a snap fire using T’s Weapon Skill, because only T is firing the weapon."

HTH

Doug
My problem is that I'm not sure how to read "the German cards reveal [...]"; Arre they talking about the notes at the bottom or paragraph checks? If paragraph checks then just for the first German or for both?

To make it more clear, the case that happened in my game: Two US soldiers in the same hex as the German LMG team. Germans get advantage, one turn each, while US get disadvantage and one turn each. Self preservation paragraph for the first (alphabetical, as per rules) German says to use best fire with LMG. The paragraph for the second German said to fire with his Luger. I performed snap fire with LMG for the first German and aimed fire with the Luger for the second one.
Should I not have checked the second paragraph and just have conducted aimed fire with the LMG?
It didn't matter in the end as both Germans missed, but it would be great to know for the future.
 
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Doug
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Hi Niko, been off the computer for a few days.

Quote:
My problem is that I'm not sure how to read "the German cards reveal [...]"; Arre they talking about the notes at the bottom or paragraph checks? If paragraph checks then just for the first German or for both?


They probably should have written that as "the German cards state ...". They are talking about the fact that S and T are a team and will act together for the most part.

Now, as to the second part of the question. Both team members will essentially act as one person, using the paragraph check for whichever team member goes first. Usually the paragraph check will state that the soldier will "fire machine gun or assist firing machine gun" with additional instructions on who or what to shoot at. You do not need to check the other soldier's action, merely move his chit down to the next turn. And note as stated in the rules example, the main firer (usually the one with the higher perception and letter number) does not have to initiate firing. He can fire on the asst. gunner's turn and use all of his modifiers. Now, in the example listed, on the next turn, since the main firer already used his turn, the asst. gunner will snap fire the MG using his modifiers. Not realistic in my opinion, but keeping within the rules of the game and putting limitations on both sides. A couple of ways to approach it:

- You can always house-rule it and say that only the main firer can fire the weapon and the asst. gunner can not fire unless the main firer is INCAP, WND, KIA, or not with the weapon.

or

- assume the main firer is firing it at diminished capacity because he doesn't have the actions for normal fire, the reason you use the asst-gunner's skills and add a -2 for snap fire.

HTH

DOug
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