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Subject: Man this NPR Declaration of Independence thing. rss

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Mike Stiles
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So every year, Morning edition does a reading of the Declaration of Independence on the Fourth of July.

So this being the 21st century, this time they posted it on twitter as well.

~~~

Apparently Trump supporters don't recognize it and some are (hilariously) going at NPR for "Calling for a Revolution".

I'm pretty partisan, but even I had assumed that these jackasses had the DOI tattoo'd on their chests, but apparently they don't give a fuck about the founding fathers at all.

(I don't know the slant of this link, but it summarizes the tweets nicely)

https://www.rawstory.com/2017/07/calling-for-a-revolution-tr...
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Problem with tweeting is you only get 144 characters...so if you only see a snippet out of context you may not recognize it...plus liberals have been over dramatic as of late and it doesn't seem far fetched that someone would call for a revolution.

More likely is that this is clickbait created by clickbait.
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GuidoVanHorn wrote:
...plus liberals have been over dramatic as of late and it doesn't seem far fetched that someone would call for a revolution.

I blame all the radical liberal militias that have popped up since Trump was elected wanting to take back America.

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144 characters is enough to handle North Korean diplomacy.

Why couldn't the founding fathers been clear in 144 characters (or less)?

Dear England, fuck you. We outtie. 'Murica.
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GuidoVanHorn wrote:
Problem with tweeting is you only get 144 characters...so if you only see a snippet out of context you may not recognize it...plus liberals have been over dramatic as of late and it doesn't seem far fetched that someone would call for a revolution.

More likely is that this is clickbait created by clickbait.


Quote:
A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.


Clearly a modern statement of position from NPR.

Maybe more important, it's been a Morning edition tradition for 29 years. I'm not sure that can be clickbait.

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windsagio wrote:
GuidoVanHorn wrote:
Problem with tweeting is you only get 144 characters...so if you only see a snippet out of context you may not recognize it...plus liberals have been over dramatic as of late and it doesn't seem far fetched that someone would call for a revolution.

More likely is that this is clickbait created by clickbait.


Quote:
A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.


Clearly a modern statement of position from NPR.

Maybe more important, it's been a Morning edition tradition for 29 years. I'm not sure that can be clickbait.



Clickbait meaning this story was trolled out, got some bites and then another story saying OMG look how dumb these people are. I don't think that was NPR's intent, but I can't say the same for raw story and the other clickbaiters

Things I know for sure, there are a lot of stupid people and they get even more stupid on the internet...so all stories pointing towards look at the gullible person on the internet are inherently uninteresting.

Same vein as the "Obama is going to pay everything for me" stories...find idiots parade them and laugh...
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144 characters?

That's gross.

And inaccurate.
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GuidoVanHorn wrote:
Problem with tweeting is you only get 144 characters...so if you only see a snippet out of context you may not recognize it...plus liberals have been over dramatic as of late and it doesn't seem far fetched that someone would call for a revolution.

More likely is that this is clickbait created by clickbait.


Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, step right up and watch Guido The Magnificent bend himself into shapes hitherto thought impossible as he attempts to defend idiot Trump supporters attacking NPR for broadcasting our Declaration of Independence!
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GuidoVanHorn wrote:
windsagio wrote:
GuidoVanHorn wrote:
Problem with tweeting is you only get 144 characters...so if you only see a snippet out of context you may not recognize it...plus liberals have been over dramatic as of late and it doesn't seem far fetched that someone would call for a revolution.

More likely is that this is clickbait created by clickbait.


Quote:
A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.


Clearly a modern statement of position from NPR.

Maybe more important, it's been a Morning edition tradition for 29 years. I'm not sure that can be clickbait.

Clickbait meaning this story was trolled out, got some bites and then another story saying OMG look how dumb these people are. I don't think that was NPR's intent, but I can't say the same for raw story and the other clickbaiters

Things I know for sure, there are a lot of stupid people and they get even more stupid on the internet...so all stories pointing towards look at the gullible person on the internet are inherently uninteresting.

Same vein as the "Obama is going to pay everything for me" stories... find idiots parade them and laugh...

On the other hand, many, if not most, of the same " stupid people" who want to defund Planned Parenthood also want to defund NPR and PBS. Indeed, many Religious Right radio stations deliberately apply for broadcast channels that abut NPR channels. Their objective: to bleed out part of NPR's transmission. This happens most when the religious and NPR stations are geographically in the same city. When that happens, you have to directionally change your radio antenna alignment in order to tune out the religious broadcast and tune in the NPR channel so that it's not overlapped, interfered with, or bled out by the religious broadcast. (This especially happens if one is geographically closer to the religious broadcast station than then NPR station.)

So, please be aware that those worthies are also crazy like a fox about pushing false issues about their targets that may sound seemingly credible to less discerning ears. And again, their motive is to discredit the ideological targets of their ire.


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Not wanting to be seen to be inflammatory or biased, but does it appear that the average Trump base supporter is, ummm, a bit lacking in IQ? And I do not mean this facetiously, I mean, his base is clearly defined by a few "statistics", namely;

1) mostly white
2) rural
3) older demographic
4) male

I mean no disparaging of that combined demographic, but history, and simple polling statistics may bear out that his base is, to a larger extent than perhaps the national average, uneducated and uninformed.

Put another way, has his base voted for him strictly based on personal emotion, or did they vote for him after some larger, more thoughtful, intelligent, analysis of his merits?
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abadolato01 wrote:
Not wanting to be seen to be inflammatory or biased, but does it appear that the average Trump base supporter is, ummm, a bit lacking in IQ? And I do not mean this facetiously, I mean, his base is clearly defined by a few "statistics", namely;

1) mostly white
2) rural
3) older demographic
4) male

I mean no disparaging of that combined demographic, but history, and simple polling statistics may bear out that his base is, to a larger extent than perhaps the national average, uneducated and uninformed.

Put another way, has his base voted for him strictly based on personal emotion, or did they vote for him after some larger, more thoughtful, intelligent, analysis of his merits?


Don't forget those who voted for him out of sheer prejudice as well. Or does that count as a subset of ignorance?
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abadolato01 wrote:

Put another way, has his base voted for him strictly based on personal emotion, or did they vote for him after some larger, more thoughtful, intelligent, analysis of his merits?


laughlaughlaughlaughlaughlaugh Oh man, that's a good one.
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abadolato01 wrote:
Not wanting to be seen to be inflammatory or biased, but does it appear that the average Trump base supporter is, ummm, a bit lacking in IQ? And I do not mean this facetiously, I mean, his base is clearly defined by a few "statistics", namely;

1) mostly white
2) rural
3) older demographic
4) male

I mean no disparaging of that combined demographic, but history, and simple polling statistics may bear out that his base is, to a larger extent than perhaps the national average, uneducated and uninformed.

Put another way, has his base voted for him strictly based on personal emotion, or did they vote for him after some larger, more thoughtful, intelligent, analysis of his merits?


Don't be too sure about that. I know a lot of highly educated male and female white collar workers, especially business management types, who voted for Trump. They did so on the assumption that Trump would be good for business, (tax cuts, corporate favoritism, relaxing of environmental regulations, etc.). It wasn't just a bunch a dumb hillbillies that got Herr Donald elected.
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desertfox2004 wrote:
abadolato01 wrote:
Not wanting to be seen to be inflammatory or biased, but does it appear that the average Trump base supporter is, ummm, a bit lacking in IQ? And I do not mean this facetiously, I mean, his base is clearly defined by a few "statistics", namely;

1) mostly white
2) rural
3) older demographic
4) male

I mean no disparaging of that combined demographic, but history, and simple polling statistics may bear out that his base is, to a larger extent than perhaps the national average, uneducated and uninformed.

Put another way, has his base voted for him strictly based on personal emotion, or did they vote for him after some larger, more thoughtful, intelligent, analysis of his merits?


Don't be too sure about that. I know a lot of highly educated male and female white collar workers, especially business management types, who voted for Trump. They did so on the assumption that Trump would be good for business, (tax cuts, corporate favoritism, relaxing of environmental regulations, etc.). It wasn't just a bunch a dumb hillbillies that got Herr Donald elected.


That might be true, but I am curious, do you think that it is this educated portion of his base that will ultimately peel away from him, after they see what he has done (or not done) by way of what they voted him for, or do you see them sticking with him, come hell or high water, like, ummm, to put it bluntly, the uneducated in his base? Let's face it, deep down, I believe that those that stick by him no matter what, are in the category I mentioned in my original post.
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abadolato01 wrote:
desertfox2004 wrote:
abadolato01 wrote:
Not wanting to be seen to be inflammatory or biased, but does it appear that the average Trump base supporter is, ummm, a bit lacking in IQ? And I do not mean this facetiously, I mean, his base is clearly defined by a few "statistics", namely;

1) mostly white
2) rural
3) older demographic
4) male

I mean no disparaging of that combined demographic, but history, and simple polling statistics may bear out that his base is, to a larger extent than perhaps the national average, uneducated and uninformed.

Put another way, has his base voted for him strictly based on personal emotion, or did they vote for him after some larger, more thoughtful, intelligent, analysis of his merits?


Don't be too sure about that. I know a lot of highly educated male and female white collar workers, especially business management types, who voted for Trump. They did so on the assumption that Trump would be good for business, (tax cuts, corporate favoritism, relaxing of environmental regulations, etc.). It wasn't just a bunch a dumb hillbillies that got Herr Donald elected.


That might be true, but I am curious, do you think that it is this educated portion of his base that will ultimately peel away from him, after they see what he has done (or not done) by way of what they voted him for, or do you see them sticking with him, come hell or high water, like, ummm, to put it bluntly, the uneducated in his base? Let's face it, deep down, I believe that those that stick by him no matter what, are in the category I mentioned in my original post.


Firstly, it absolutely is true, as I know such people in the corporation where I work who fit this description. Secondly, I think these people will only peel away from Trump if his administration does not deliver on the things they were looking for when the voted for him. If he does deliver tax cuts, both for wealthy individuals and for corporations, if he delivers relaxed environmental regulations, and essentially creates a more favorable situation for business, they will vote for him again. This doesn't make them dumb, this makes them extremely tightly focused on their own narrow goals - in other words, it simply makes them selfish.

Don't pat yourself on the back too much by assigning some kind of inferior intelligence factor to all of those who support Trump. High intelligence does not automatically equate to enlightened progressive world views. Not to Godwin the thread, but let's not forget that IQ tests were administered to the Nazi leaders at Nuremberg during the trials. A fair number of them, including Donitz, Goering, and Von Papen, tested at or near genius level. These people were highly intelligent and yet held abhorrent moral and ethical views, all out of a strong sense of self interest and a twisted world view. The same can hold true for a not insignificant segment of Trump supporters.
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desertfox2004 wrote:
abadolato01 wrote:
desertfox2004 wrote:
abadolato01 wrote:
Not wanting to be seen to be inflammatory or biased, but does it appear that the average Trump base supporter is, ummm, a bit lacking in IQ? And I do not mean this facetiously, I mean, his base is clearly defined by a few "statistics", namely;

1) mostly white
2) rural
3) older demographic
4) male

I mean no disparaging of that combined demographic, but history, and simple polling statistics may bear out that his base is, to a larger extent than perhaps the national average, uneducated and uninformed.

Put another way, has his base voted for him strictly based on personal emotion, or did they vote for him after some larger, more thoughtful, intelligent, analysis of his merits?


Don't be too sure about that. I know a lot of highly educated male and female white collar workers, especially business management types, who voted for Trump. They did so on the assumption that Trump would be good for business, (tax cuts, corporate favoritism, relaxing of environmental regulations, etc.). It wasn't just a bunch a dumb hillbillies that got Herr Donald elected.


That might be true, but I am curious, do you think that it is this educated portion of his base that will ultimately peel away from him, after they see what he has done (or not done) by way of what they voted him for, or do you see them sticking with him, come hell or high water, like, ummm, to put it bluntly, the uneducated in his base? Let's face it, deep down, I believe that those that stick by him no matter what, are in the category I mentioned in my original post.


Firstly, it absolutely is true, as I know such people in the corporation where I work who fit this description. Secondly, I think these people will only peel away from Trump if his administration does not deliver on the things they were looking for when the voted for him. If he does deliver tax cuts, both for wealthy individuals and for corporations, if he delivers relaxed environmental regulations, and essentially creates a more favorable situation for business, they will vote for him again. This doesn't make them dumb, this makes them extremely tightly focused on their own narrow goals - in other words, it simply makes them selfish.

Don't pat yourself on the back too much by assigning some kind of inferior intelligence factor to all of those who support Trump. High intelligence does not automatically equate to enlightened progressive world views. Not to Godwin the thread, but let's not forget that IQ tests were administered to the Nazi leaders at Nuremberg during the trials. A fair number of them, including Donitz, Goering, and Von Papen, tested at or near genius level. These people were highly intelligent and yet held abhorrent moral and ethical views, all out of a strong sense of self interest and a twisted world view. The same can hold true for a not insignificant segment of Trump supporters.


We seem to have the opposite here, a small group of intelligent base that has voted for a dolt. I am not patting myself on the back at all, just trying to figure out why the intelligent would stick with him, how long do they give him before they decide their vote has failed. Do they look at what he is currently doing, and the way he is acting? Or do they dismiss all of that if he gives them the tax credit they want? Or do they even stay informed about what he is doing, or the way he is acting? The rubes will be rubes and will stick with him no matter what. I am trying to obtain a deeper understanding of why an intelligent, active (as in informed), person would stick by the guy, even to this point, much less waiting any further to confirm the guy is bad news.
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49xjohn wrote:

144 characters?

That's gross.

And inaccurate.


Sorry, 140.
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Well, money for one (as has been pointed out). People are more than willing to put aside any other principles they might have if they can "get some".

Even if they personally don't "get some", if you work for a business that benefits from a certain party's administration, that's going to probably have an effect on you (say, a for-profit school and the GOP, which might make Gainful Employment rules go away). I used to work for a time-share company (IT, thank goodness, not sales...) and the owner (Mr. David Siegal, aka Trump Lite) sent out an email to employees during the Obama/Romney election basically saying that if Romney didn't win, the company was going to suffer and lay-offs were a possibility.



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This is like those stories that ask women if they are against women's suffrage. You can always find a few stupid people out there and then put them all over the internet and tv to make the other side. dumb.
 
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Statistical research has not shown a correlation between Trump voters and low IQ, I mean there are dumb ones but there are dumb demo voters too.

What there is a super high correlation with is being pro-authoritarian, which is not unexpected but also super fucking terrifying, that basically when we think "oh they were voting for the guy who wants to cut taxes and oops accidentally voted for an authoritarian would be dictator" that's wrong, the actual truth is they voted for a dictator because they want a dictator.
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abadolato01 wrote:
Not wanting to be seen to be inflammatory or biased, but does it appear that the average Trump base supporter is, ummm, a bit lacking in IQ? And I do not mean this facetiously, I mean, his base is clearly defined by a few "statistics", namely;

1) mostly white
2) rural
3) older demographic
4) male

I mean no disparaging of that combined demographic, but history, and simple polling statistics may bear out that his base is, to a larger extent than perhaps the national average, uneducated and uninformed.

Put another way, has his base voted for him strictly based on personal emotion, or did they vote for him after some larger, more thoughtful, intelligent, analysis of his merits?


You may be correct about the demographics though you may be making unwarranted assumptions about what they mean. I know people who supported Trump and still do because of the historical moment rather than any favorable impression of the man. From Libertarians who hew to the notion of smaller government and greater isolation from external entanglements to Defense conservatives who think Clinton would both undermine national security while at the same time engage in heedless conflict abroad and social conservatives who have felt a VERY rapid change in the social dynamics of the nation and institutions. Many of these people are perhaps as well read as those who oppose Trump but they see him as a temporary and perhaps necessary evil to oppose what would certainly have been a facile politician who has sold out to big banks (and lets not forget that the DNC was caught fairly red handed trying to manipulate the nomination away from Sanders).

There is undoubtedly a large group of people just as you suggest who revel in the smash mouth unapologetic posturing of Trump who want to vent themselves without apology. I think we make a mistake when we assess and engage on the basis of identity rather than political merit. Any hope we have of splitting away the more thoughtful Trump voters starts to fade as they are lumped in with the "deplorables".

 
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abadolato01 wrote:
Not wanting to be seen to be inflammatory or biased, but does it appear that the average Trump base supporter is, ummm, a bit lacking in IQ? And I do not mean this facetiously, I mean, his base is clearly defined by a few "statistics", namely;

1) mostly white
2) rural
3) older demographic
4) male

I mean no disparaging of that combined demographic, but history, and simple polling statistics may bear out that his base is, to a larger extent than perhaps the national average, uneducated and uninformed.

Put another way, has his base voted for him strictly based on personal emotion, or did they vote for him after some larger, more thoughtful, intelligent, analysis of his merits?


Our one real home for the country is that they will become disillusioned or die off before their last burst of irrational anger does too much damage.
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desertfox2004 wrote:
abadolato01 wrote:
Not wanting to be seen to be inflammatory or biased, but does it appear that the average Trump base supporter is, ummm, a bit lacking in IQ? And I do not mean this facetiously, I mean, his base is clearly defined by a few "statistics", namely;

1) mostly white
2) rural
3) older demographic
4) male

I mean no disparaging of that combined demographic, but history, and simple polling statistics may bear out that his base is, to a larger extent than perhaps the national average, uneducated and uninformed.

Put another way, has his base voted for him strictly based on personal emotion, or did they vote for him after some larger, more thoughtful, intelligent, analysis of his merits?


Don't be too sure about that. I know a lot of highly educated male and female white collar workers, especially business management types, who voted for Trump. They did so on the assumption that Trump would be good for business, (tax cuts, corporate favoritism, relaxing of environmental regulations, etc.). It wasn't just a bunch a dumb hillbillies that got Herr Donald elected.


As noted, the demographics don't really match your observations (anecdota). There are some of course, but Trump voters massively skew towards at least 3 of the 4 points abadolato mentions (white, older, male).
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Perrin2017 wrote:
This is like those stories that ask women if they are against women's suffrage. You can always find a few stupid people out there and then put them all over the internet and tv to make the other side. dumb.


To Paraphrase Yoda, "There was no Try". These people did it on their own out of pure aggressive ignorance.

~~~

To be perfectly frank, it's likely that Guido is right in that most people wouldn't recognize a single line from the DOI on its own. That said, nobody can mistake the old-timey cadence for something current, and I can't get into the head of people as to what brought them to NPR's feed in the first place (not to mention that the tweets were a chain of self-responses so it's actually pretty hard to NOT get the context).

What I think happened here is that there's a certain group that are really high on hate, and monitor NPR's twitter feed for things to get outraged over. It's hard to think when you're trying to relieve that big a hate-boner, so these folks walked right into it.
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Perrin2017 wrote:
This is like those stories that ask women if they are against women's suffrage. You can always find a few stupid people out there and then put them all over the internet and tv to make the other side. dumb.

Nah, it's nothing like that. What you describe (women being 'against women's suffrage') is a mistake due to not knowing the meaning of the word 'suffrage'. In contrast, everyone understands the meanings of the words used by Jefferson. Their mistake is not one of not knowing English.

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