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Subject: Bash clarification needed rss

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Gorka Morka
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I'm having trouble understanding the "moving in the direction where the defender came from" part. Does that mean initially (e.g. where the monster spawned) or towards point A if it moved from A to B during it's last activation? What if that activiation is more than one round ago (meaning it didn't move last round)? Seems unnecesarily complicated, why can't I just bash it where I want (which would also make more sense thematically)?

Regards, Gorkar
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Dan Anderson
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I always play that I can bash them where I want. I did the same with GD with the Hulk's Charge ability. There are always ways to make the game harder if this becomes too advantageous
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Patrick Dolan
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I believe that the "moving in the direction the defender came from" only refers to player controlled characters. IE: Heroes don't get to choose to be based 'forwards', past the enemies.
 
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Rezard Vareth
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Pat Dolan wrote:
I believe that the "moving in the direction the defender came from" only refers to player controlled characters. IE: Heroes don't get to choose to be based 'forwards', past the enemies.
No. there is a move away paragraph in enemy movement. That covers bash movement.

It can be weird. My character got engaged from behind the bashed into the space the defender moved in from.
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Patrick Dolan
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Hmm... here's what's in the rulebook (page 35, 10.2 - Bash); ""Move Back" means moving in the direction where the defender came from. When this is not possible, the defender (or controlling player, in case of an enemy) decides where to move."

So it seems that it applies to all characters, and unless the character spawned into the spot where the bash occurs (the only time I can think of where it would 'not be possible' to move back), they should always moved back to whatever space they 'came from'.

Considering that characters usually (from what I've seen, anyway) suffer the effects of Bash on an opponent's turn, that means moving the target into the space they occupied on their previous turn (or several turns previously, if they haven't moved lately), which seems like it could create create some tricky book keeping issues... That, coupled with situations where you chase after an enemy only to bash them into the space you just came from, makes the Bash mechanics kind of weird and overly awkward to me.

I wonder if it would really hurt game balance if the rule simply allowed the controlling player of the target to choose where they get bashed (giving the target a slight advantage, like the original rule). Or to allow the controlling player of the attacker to choose (gives a slight advantage to the attacker).

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Rezard Vareth
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In 2 full campaigns, it has only mattered once. I say to just play as you like. Just know if you start doing things like bashing them into fire, that will affect balance.
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Matt Drake
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That gets tricky if you get bashed when you're against a wall. We just moved sideways. There's one dude who bashed the crap out of my tank, who ended up getting knocked so far back down the hall that we were in a completely different part of the map when we finally aced the bad guys.
 
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Gorka Morka
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VixenTorGames wrote:
There's one dude who bashed the crap out of my tank, who ended up getting knocked so far back down the hall that we were in a completely different part of the map when we finally aced the bad guys.


I'm not sure that can actually happen. Per RAW if you get bashed twice in a row (e.g. without moving in between) the second bash could only bash you back into the area you got bashed out during the first bash (lots of bashing, I hope it's clear waht I mean). Yesterday we played mission 3. The "boss" got the power where he automatically gets a hit and a bash everytime he attacks with his primary weapon. My tank got bashed between the two areas in the last room the whole fight. Always back and forth. Althought it would have been better for the boss to bash me out of the room completely. First time I play a coop I always try to play along the rules as closely as possible, kind of a battle between the designer and me ;-). But the bash rules make me cringe, they're soooo unthematic.

Regards, Gorkar
 
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Rinkaby
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Hi. What about bash timing?

I've just played the first quest last night, and the quills from the blue gremlin and bash was the issue. We finally decided to play it as the whole attack must be finished before appyling the bsh effect, including after efects such as quills, or spines or what it is called.

Is this correct?


Cheers!
 
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Gorka Morka
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LordTengil wrote:
Hi. What about bash timing?

I've just played the first quest last night, and the quills from the blue gremlin and bash was the issue. We finally decided to play it as the whole attack must be finished before appyling the bsh effect, including after efects such as quills, or spines or what it is called.

Is this correct?


Cheers!


Nope. You can do damage and use bash with your attack and the spines trigger just after the gremlin is moved to the new area (which means per RAW always the area it came from when it moved last). So you don't get damage from spines, although any heroes standing in the area the gremlib gets bashed into might.

Regards, Gorkar
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Rinkaby
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Thanks mate. Can you anchor this with a rule clarification? The only relevant thing I find is on p. 35,

"The attack is resolved normally even if the defender is no longer in the same area of the attacker (due to bash)".


 
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Rinkaby
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Also, a second question. Ecarus is wearing a shield. When can he activate his bash? When he is defending using the shield, attacking with sword, attacking with shield?
 
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Skaak
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LordTengil wrote:
Thanks mate. Can you anchor this with a rule clarification? The only relevant thing I find is on p. 35,

"The attack is resolved normally even if the defender is no longer in the same area of the attacker (due to bash)".


The designer (Simone Romano) clarified this here on BGG. Basically, you get to choose the order of activation and Bash/Critical are applied as soon as you activate them. I'm having trouble finding the link, though.

Ecarus can only activate Bash from his shield when attacking with it. Attacks with sword, defending, etc. do not allow access to Bash.
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Gene Chiu
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LordTengil wrote:
Hi. What about bash timing?

I've just played the first quest last night, and the quills from the blue gremlin and bash was the issue. We finally decided to play it as the whole attack must be finished before appyling the bsh effect, including after efects such as quills, or spines or what it is called.

Is this correct?


Cheers!


In the section that covers the steps in combat. Step 1 you roll your attack dice. Step 2 you check for special effects like bash. Step 4 is where damage occurs. The way I interpret it, in step 2, you move the enemy back. Step 4, the enemy takes damage and then triggers the spines. As the enemy has been moved in step 2, the spines won't hit anyone in the original space.

I'll have to look at the manual later to find the exact page number for you.
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Gene Chiu
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LordTengil wrote:
Hi. What about bash timing?

I've just played the first quest last night, and the quills from the blue gremlin and bash was the issue. We finally decided to play it as the whole attack must be finished before appyling the bsh effect, including after efects such as quills, or spines or what it is called.

Is this correct?


Cheers!


Here's the timing of the bash action and gremlin Spines. I'll assume that it is the sorceress staff that has the bash effect. The steps are outlined in section 9. Combat System, page 32. It is also listed in the summary sheet.

Hit:

1. Roll Hit Dice: I'll assume that the roll has at least one hit and the symbol to activate the Bash ability.

2. Apply effects: This is where you apply Bash and move the enemy back a space.

3. Summarise Hits: The timing would mean that even if you had a negative modifier to hits that cancel out any hits, the Bash effect already happened. You could end up doing a Bash and no damage.

DEF:
1. Weaknesses and Resistances: Again, modifiers could cause no damage.

2, 3, 4. Armour, Magic shields and rolling DEF dice: More stuff that can negate damage.

5. Applying effects: These are from the DEF dice rolled.

6. Summarise Shields: This is where you actually deal damage to the creature. If damage is dealt to the blue gremlin, it will trigger the Spines effect. By this time, the gremlin would have already been pushed back, so the Spines may not do damage to anyone.

Basically, the Bash happens at Hit step 2 and the Spines happen later at DEF step 6.
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