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Gloom of Kilforth: A Fantasy Quest Game» Forums » Reviews

Subject: A few thoughts about the game rss

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First of all I must say I like this game, it is fun to play, the Saga idea gives a good adventure feel, leading to an epic climax in the final fight against the Ancient.

As other mentionned, there is randomness in the game but you quickly find out how to mitigate it by going to the right places and upgrading your hero.

The art: a lot as been said about the art, and it is indeed superb!
I will however say that when I saw some of the pictures during the KS campaign updates, there were a few that I found 'off': a perspective or a scale problem here and there... but once edited on the card it doesn't show up and it makes great illustrations

If I go on with the (very) minor negative points, it would be:
- the back of the cards is re-used illustrations from other cards. I understand that Ania already had a lot to do but it would have been nice to have original (even if simple) illustrations.
- there are extra standees that are identical to others. Why not use other characters? The art was here. It feels a bit odd to play a non human hero and only have human standees.
- the last one concerns Locations. Again the art is great and I think Ania greatest talent is how she depicts landscapes. However in many locations, the art doesn't really fit the name of the place (for example the Open Heath is a forest, the Spine Ridge Pass isn't spiny/ridgy/passy)

Concerning gameplay, I only tried it solo with one hero.
I chose different races and classes, selecting them to have a coherent hero, and I also chose the recommended Saga for the class.
In these conditions I found the game not too (/very) challenging. I was able to defeat the Ancient every time and quite easily, rolling 10+ die for combat.

So I found this game quite fun and enjoyable, with a beautiful art. Next time I will select my hero/saga/ancient randomly to see if it become more challenging, and try to play competitively and multi-hero co-op.

(can't wait to play 1066 now )
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Vladimir Lehotai
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I agree with you on the art, sometimes it does not correspond to the card.
Also, I feel the same "problem" as with Magali Villeneuve's illustrations in LotR LCG - the characters are almost always perfect looking, with perfect faces. On cards like Noblewoman or Dandy it makes total sense, sure. I remember at least one exception (a man facing an orc, both have stitched scars), but that's all. The female warrior looks as if she either was a supermodel dressed in armor and posing for a painting, or a warrior on the first day of her career - maybe it's just me, but I expect at least a bit rugged look from a warrior (scars, bruises, whatever). Or the peasant family from one quest are the most cleanest peasants I've ever seen.

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Richard Dewsbery
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mntee wrote:
- the back of the cards is re-used illustrations from other cards.


I never noticed any reused card art, except
- the backs of the skills cards (and I would have preferred something that reflected the TWO classes that use each deck instead of just one), and
- the backs of the character cards, which all use the (warrior?) class art. I would have preferred an alternative of the main art - either the other gender (like the race cards) or a "hidden" version.

There are many things I didn't like about the game, but the artwork (and the reuse of it) is not one of them.
 
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Jake Staines
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RDewsbery wrote:

I never noticed any reused card art, except
- the backs of the skills cards [...]
- the backs of the character cards


Off the top of my head, I think the Night cards and the Item cards are the only ones which have unique art for the backs? the other decks all use the front-of-card art from one of the cards in that deck. It's just more noticeable with the class, character and skill cards because you're more likely to have seen the card that the back is from.
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Most if not all backs are re-used, off the top of my head (I don't have the game in front of me):

Titles is the Executionner
Mountains is Rolling hills
Plot is a night card
Spells is an ally
Items is an encounter
...

But it isn't a major issue since ,here, the art fits perfectly the theme of the cards.

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CycyX
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mntee wrote:
I chose different races and classes, selecting them to have a coherent hero, and I also chose the recommended Saga for the class.
In these conditions I found the game not too (/very) challenging. I was able to defeat the Ancient every time and quite easily, rolling 10+ die for combat.

You must be very lucky with your dice rolls, because even rolling 13+ dice, I manage to lose badly against several Ancients...
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Yes I guess I'm not too unlucky, I manage to inflict 3-5 hits per round, when she/he only hit me 1-3 times.
But I also make sure I get rid of the nasty plot cards (some won't bother me at all during the fight), get rid of the encounters that will boost the Ancient's health, and not rely on any of the reward type that will be discarded by the Ancient's ability.
Also have a potion/shield.
I usely end up fighting the Ancient with only 1 Fate token, as I tend to use them very early in the game when you don't have so much dice to roll, and lack one measly die to defeat that encounter you've spent a whole turn confronting.
 
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David Purkiss
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I think it a nice game, probably plays better with 2 characters as you need to co-operate and do a bit more to win.

Generally the art is nice I find some of it is a bit odd though (like the male half demon's face). Some of it I like a lot and a lot of it seems a bit generic. For me these things need a bit of work (for the upcoming expansion) ...

1) The rulebook generally (I've posted some rules questions elsewhere that have details on this), mainly around simplifying the text and not assuming that I know what things do
2) Only including 6 dice, needs at least 12 (Why do I need to spend £X extra to get something that should have been included?)
3) Not including enough health counters for the description of the setup, even more so with more than 2 players, if I'm not going to put HP tokens on the bosses this needs to be mentioned in the rulebook
4) Small text on the tokens / them not being round as would work better, would much rather have round tokens with no pics if it meant the text were bigger
5) Enemy tokens not being wooden
6) Skill cards having obvious choices (the warrior for example), although they do combo well together
7) Personally I would have preferred a standee of the characters race with a male / female side instead of having class, which might not look anything like the hero
 
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CycyX
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lylith82 wrote:
2) Only including 6 dice, needs at least 12 (Why do I need to spend £X extra to get something that should have been included?)

You do not have to spend any money: just reroll the dice, keeping count of your successes...
Rolling 12 or 15 dice is not an easy task with standard-sized hands.
I agree than a few extra dice would have been nice, but this is not mandatory and not worth spending money on...

I agree with the rest of your comments (appart for the wooden enemy counters).
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David Purkiss
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When your playing 2 players it makes senses for the other player to roll for the enemy, you often need 8-10 towards the end of the game, not sure why this wasn't thought about before release. You also need some dice to keep track of successes.

Wooden counters would have been so much nicer to look at on the table (they even look wooden in the rulebook), makes the game feel like you get good components for most things but not for all, the text on the tokens is so small, make them round and take out the pictures and you've got that sorted, a standee for each race would make more sense aswell and could use the same art.

Is a nice game but the changes I mentioned would sort out all the little things and bring it up a level.

Is also strange to look for a rule and read through a wordy paragraph 3 ttimes (and lots of "by implication") when it could have been edited to be a short line and that's one example. If it was run by a professional rule editor (much like Robinson Crusoe) and released with the expansion it would be helpful.
 
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Jake Staines
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We had no particular trouble just re-rolling the dice and counting up successes, but I would tend to agree - one thing that would make the game more comfortable to play would be about ten player dice and then another five or six (off the top of my head) dice in a different colour so you could roll all the enemy attacks at the same time. They'd almost certainly have to be smaller to be able to roll such a handful, but I never personally liked huge chunky dice anyway. ;-)

lylith82 wrote:

You also need some dice to keep track of successes.


That seems like it would inevitably lead to someone's successes being lost when someone else needed another die for something and picked one up that had been carelessly left in the middle of the board for some reason. Plus, dice are fiddly to increment.

For what it's worth, we track successes with the money tokens. There's two tokens that you generally have more than you need of - money and obstructions. Obstructions can legitimately sit on the board, but there's no other reason for money to ever get on the board so there's never any question as to why there's a little stack of gold on the corner of that encounter card there.
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Tristan Hall
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Patrick Brennan of FFG wrote the rules. Some people struggle with them and some people don't, which is the same as all of the other games that I play and enjoy. It is a semi-complex game though which is why we have the FAQ.
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Jake Staines
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ninjadorg wrote:
Patrick Brennan of FFG wrote the rules.


To be honest, I've often found FFG rules particularly difficult to get through as well. They've been getting better recently, to be fair - it took me three or four goes through the Android rules a few years back -
and a play-against-myself test game - before I was comfortable introducing it to other players.
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Bichatse wrote:
ninjadorg wrote:
Patrick Brennan of FFG wrote the rules.


To be honest, I've often found FFG rules particularly difficult to get through as well. They've been getting better recently, to be fair - it took me three or four goes through the Android rules a few years back -
and a play-against-myself test game - before I was comfortable introducing it to other players.


I always do that before introducing a game to my group. Another reason that I love solo rules. cool
 
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David Purkiss
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ninjadorg wrote:
Patrick Brennan of FFG wrote the rules. Some people struggle with them and some people don't, which is the same as all of the other games that I play and enjoy. It is a semi-complex game though which is why we have the FAQ.


There are somethings that make going through a rulebook easier though and having an FAQ this soon after the release of the game indicates that these are things that could be improved upon with a second printing of the rulebook (the new campaign being an ideal way of doing this). Similar thing with having round tokens with larger text and so on.

On a side note another company (Inspiring Games) had a 3rd party editor go through all the rules, did / will something like this happen with this game? Why for example is there a paragraph explaining something in a wordy way, which could be much simplier (and that's one example). If this game is going to be completely polished then things like this need to be sorted out.

It feels to me that there's a good game in there but I shouldn't need to force my way through a rulebook to enjoy it (some people wouldn't bother and would write it off instead). The game itself isn't the complicated, the rulebook makes it complicated to learn.

Anyway it's all intended as feedback to improve upon what is an already good game, which if used can only be a good thing for the future of this game.
 
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David Purkiss
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ninjadorg wrote:
Patrick Brennan of FFG wrote the rules.


That's fine, but a 3rd party editor / blind playtesting is there to check these. Did the blind playtests find any issues with the rules?

FFG rules aren't always great (Death Angel for example) is much easier learning that from watching a radho runs through video, but that game came out a while ago and this game is very recent.
 
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lylith82 wrote:
On a side note another company (Inspiring Games) had a 3rd party editor go through all the rules, did / will something like this happen with this game? Why for example is there a paragraph explaining something in a wordy way, which could be much simplier (and that's one example). If this game is going to be completely polished then things like this need to be sorted out.


Patrick Brennan was the third party editor.
Which paragraph is it which could be much simplier? Any of the backers or play-testers will tell you I’m very open to feedback but I can only consider sorting these things out if you tell me what they are.

lylith82 wrote:
ninjadorg wrote:
Patrick Brennan of FFG wrote the rules.


That's fine, but a 3rd party editor / blind playtesting is there to check these. Did the blind playtests find any issues with the rules?


There were clarifications which we cleared up as we went, because that's what blind play-testing is for. That said, having dedicated groups of hardcore gamers blind-playtest the game isn't the same as having 2,500 groups of people play the game, so there will always be elements we might miss.

lylith82 wrote:
FFG rules aren't always great (Death Angel for example) is much easier learning that from watching a radho runs through video, but that game came out a while ago and this game is very recent.


You might not think much of FFG rules but they're a high standard for an indie publisher like me to aspire to, and complex games will always have lots of rules questions, that’s just the way it is - check out any similar game on BGG. The fact that Nick jumped on prepping a FAQ for us so quickly is more a testament to his dedication to helping out other gamers than anything else.

I’m all for making the game rules more clear and I’ll be going through this FAQ to see if there is anything else we can tidy up for the reprint. cool
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Nick Hughes
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lylith82 wrote:
There are somethings that make going through a rulebook easier though and having an FAQ this soon after the release of the game indicates that these are things that could be improved upon with a second printing of the rulebook (the new campaign being an ideal way of doing this). Similar thing with having round tokens with larger text and so on.


See this is why I wanted to call it a Q&A for the moment!. I would hazard a guess that maybe less than 10% of them are "Frequently Asked" the post here on BGG is currently really only a collection of the questions I could find being asked, reading through it there are few instances of duplication.

Even the un-official tidied up version, which I am working on, which eliminates these duplicates still has questions which I think are very clear in the rules. As there are some who like to jump in boots first and learn as they play and there are other who like to carefully read and even re-read before they play, I am trying to cover everyone's needs.





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jokeroz wrote:
lylith82 wrote:
There are somethings that make going through a rulebook easier though and having an FAQ this soon after the release of the game indicates that these are things that could be improved upon with a second printing of the rulebook (the new campaign being an ideal way of doing this). Similar thing with having round tokens with larger text and so on.


See this is why I wanted to call it a Q&A for the moment!. I would hazard a guess that maybe less than 10% of them are "Frequently Asked" the post here on BGG is currently really only a collection of the questions I could find being asked, reading through it there are few instances of duplication.

Even the un-official tidied up version, which I am working on, which eliminates these duplicates still has questions which I think are very clear in the rules. As there are some who like to jump in boots first and learn as they play and there are other who like to carefully read and even re-read before they play, I am trying to cover everyone's needs.




Well said Nick - and you're doing an absolutely sterling job too. cool
 
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